Preview Geelong v Collingwood Thursday July 16 at Optus stadium.

[Mr Meow]

Can't believe Australia didn't drop Shane Warne - that bloke was seriously out of shape.

 

[Vdubs]

The hard work needs to be done before then.

Past history.
How do we go forward NOW ? We have this elite player who may be below par, but giving him game-time is surely better for him and us than not playing him punitively?

 

[Hamingja]

Can't believe Australia didn't drop Shane Warne - that bloke was seriously out of shape.

Not the best choice of comparison here given that he failed as a footballer.....

 

[Mr Meow]

Not the best choice of comparison here given that he failed as a footballer.....

My point being was he good at his chosen sport, valuable part of the team and so on. Yes he was. Steven was at St Kilda. Motlop was that year at Geelong. Judge the output. Read a women's magazine if you're obsessed by body shape.

 

[Vdubs]

We impose a standard VD...... Across the board.

He goes back to the training track, the gym, and he works his arse off. That's how.

In doing so, all can see that the club has set a standard that applies equally to all, and it encourages the kids who see there is no exception and appreciate the effort he subsequently puts in. That encourages emulation.

Naive comment. You don't think he is not already doing that? He is getting match time because he is. He will not suddenly look like his old self, but his effort last game we saw him was good to very good. ONLY by playing him will he get better. Is there a more deserving player than him tearing the doors down to take his spot? Each game we play is nearly a must win. Only 11 games to go. He does not have the luxury of slowly getting back there. If the MC was pissed off with him enough, he would not play.
Also, you surely appreciate that there is not a blanket training schedule for 30 odd players.
EVERY player has individualised training loads.
You would not expect GAJ and Taheny to be on the same programme...
Steven will be ticking enough boxes to warrant selection.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Naive comment. You don't think he is not already doing that? He is getting match time because he is. He will not suddenly look like his old self, but his effort last game we saw him was good to very good. ONLY by playing him will he get better. Is there a more deserving player than him tearing the doors down to take his spot? Each game we play is nearly a must win. Only 11 games to go. He does not have the luxury of slowly getting back there. If the MC was pissed off with him enough, he would not play

Agree with all of it except the emboldened part, that's coming it a bit strong, he was better than previously, that's all.

 

[Cataholic]

Can't believe Australia didn't drop Shane Warne - that bloke was seriously out of shape.

Drawing the bow a bit long there I reckon.

Aerobic fitness wasn't as fundamental to Warne's game as it is to Jack's.

 

[Vdubs]

Agree with all of it except the emboldened part, that's coming it a bit strong, he was better than previously, that's all.

Maybe. I thought it was his best game this year. His bar is really high. At his best, which we may never see, he is right up there.

 

[romeohwho]

Drawing the bow a bit long there I reckon.

Aerobic fitness wasn't as fundamental to Warne's game as it is to Jack's.

Keep getting some game time into him, get him playing pretty consistently so he’s in pretty good shape by the finals- he’ll be worth it.

 

[Cataholic]

8

Naive comment. You don't think he is not already doing that? He is getting match time because he is. He will not suddenly look like his old self, but his effort last game we saw him was good to very good. ONLY by playing him will he get better. Is there a more deserving player than him tearing the doors down to take his spot? Each game we play is nearly a must win. Only 11 games to go. He does not have the luxury of slowly getting back there. If the MC was pissed off with him enough, he would not play.
Also, you surely appreciate that there is not a blanket training schedule for 30 odd players.
EVERY player has individualised training loads.
You would not expect GAJ and Taheny to be on the same programme...
Steven will be ticking enough boxes to warrant selection.

Naive huh?

You say he's doing the work in the gym and on the training track.

Why is he so relatively unfit then? Where was his dedication and individualised training program pre-season?

We got told how good he was doing, yet he's turned up to the start line looking like a creamy lamington.

I'd say someone who trained all pre-season, never missed a session, showed discipline and got physically fit is more deserving than someone given a hall pass to turn up haphazardly because they were capable of footy a couple of years ago.

 

[Hamingja]

My point being was he good at his chosen sport, valuable part of the team and so on. Yes he was. Steven was at St Kilda. Motlop was that year at Geelong. Judge the output. Read a women's magazine if you're obsessed by body shape.

I think most people are judging him on his output at Geelong which so far is below standard.

 

[Cataholic]

Keep getting some game time into him, get him playing pretty consistently so he’s in pretty good shape by the finals- he’ll be worth it.

Not necessarily disagreeing.

It's the fact that he's been given an exemption to turn up in the seniors physically unfit, and incapable of running a game out.

He's been given a free ticket based on reputation, not form.

 

[Cataholic]

I think most people are judging him on his output at Geelong which so far is below standard.

He first game was just embarrassing. Felt for him.

 

[Cataholic]

Past history.
How do we go forward NOW ? We have this elite player who may be below par, but giving him game-time is surely better for him and us than not playing him punitively?

The player IS below par.

And it's easy - you enforce the exact same standards you demand of everyone else.....skinfolds, minimum fitness levels etc.

Perhaps they should've got him onto his individualised training program as soon as they signed him?

 

[romeohwho]

Not necessarily disagreeing.

It's the fact that he's been given an exemption to turn up in the seniors physically unfit, and incapable of running a game out.

He's been given a free ticket based on reputation, not form.

I don’t get the impression it was about reputation. Thought it was more about his history. Don’t really see why a club can’t be nuanced in its approach to player management. He’ll get fitter, no rush-just needs to be purring in September - lol- is it September this year?

 

[frggr]

The player IS below par.

And it's easy - you enforce the exact same standards you demand of everyone else.....skinfolds, minimum fitness levels etc.

Perhaps they should've got him onto his individualised training program as soon as they signed him?

I see playing top flight as 'accelerated' training - it's the fastest way to get him fit. That, coupled with not much in reserve knocking down the door, coupled with a 70% Jack Steven is still pretty good, makes the decision to give him games an easy one.

Would it have been better if he came back trim, taut and terrific and started playing at his absolute best? Yeah, of course. But it didn't happen.

Do we gain anything by letting him languish when there's no VFL, effectively limiting his ability to get to his peak in time for finals? No.

 

[Cataholic]

I don’t get the impression it was about reputation. Thought it was more about his history. Don’t really see why a club can’t be nuanced in its approach to player management. He’ll get fitter, no rush-just needs to be purring in September - lol- is it September this year?

Don't reputation and history go hand in hand...... One is borne from the other?

 

[Cataholic]

I see playing top flight as 'accelerated' training - it's the fastest way to get him fit. That, coupled with not much in reserve knocking down the door, coupled with a 70% Jack Steven is still pretty good, makes the decision to give him games an easy one.

Would it have been better if he came back trim, taut and terrific and started playing at his absolute best? Yeah, of course. But it didn't happen.

Do we gain anything by letting him languish when there's no VFL, effectively limiting his ability to get to his peak in time for finals? No.

What if we brought a kid in, instead of letting him languish because he too is suffering from a lack of VFL?

Was only a week ago we were told none of our kids really deserved a game, and some went a step further mocking Simpson's subsequent selection. Yet, straight off the cuff, he punched out a better quality game than Steven has given us yet.

There's an automatic assumption that Steven will get back to what he was a couple of years ago........ What if he doesn't?

 

[romeohwho]

Don't reputation and history go hand in hand...... One is borne from the other?

Sort of, but I think he’s getting games, despite being not fit enough, because the club accepts his chequered history has impacted on him and rather than being judgemental they are tolerating and supporting him. And they are prepared to back him in because his best footy, if we can get him to it, will be of real value.

 

[Kingsfoil]

Maybe. I thought it was his best game this year. His bar is really high. At his best, which we may never see, he is right up there.

It was, but it was still bloody ordinary and not worthy of a spot in the 22. The first two games were pure garbage and I think most people recognise that. Improvement is great, but there are plenty of players that have played better than him who have been maligned on here for needing to go work on their game somewhere else. I just think his inclusion flies in the face of 'we'll choose the best 22 we have available every week'. I hope he keeps improving, but fear he'll keep being gifted games even if he stays performing poorly.

 

[Cataholic]

Sort of, but I think he’s getting games, despite being not fit enough, because the club accepts his chequered history has impacted on him and rather than being judgemental they are tolerating and supporting him. And they are prepared to back him in because his best footy, if we can get him to it, will be of real value.

So do you see how others, especially some of our kids, could interpret that as him being given a free pass based on nothing more than a past reputation and a hope that he gets back to where he was several years ago?

 

[Cataholic]

It was, but it was still bloody ordinary and not worthy of a spot in the 22. The first two games were pure garbage and I think most people recognise that. Improvement is great, but there are plenty of players that have played better than him who have been maligned on here for needing to go work on their game somewhere else. I just think his inclusion flies in the face of 'we'll choose the best 22 we have available every week'. I hope he keeps improving, but fear he'll keep being gifted games even if he stays performing poorly.

This.

He's been baggage so far, and not good enough to be in our 'Best 22'.

He's only in that IF he gets somewhere near his past form.

 

[Lana]

What if we brought a kid in, instead of letting him languish because he too is suffering from a lack of VFL?

Was only a week ago we were told none of our kids really deserved a game, and some went a step further mocking Simpson's subsequent selection. Yet, straight off the cuff, he punched out a better quality game than Steven has given us yet.

There's an automatic assumption that Steven will get back to what he was a couple of years ago........ What if he doesn't?

Then it'd be the end of the world

But seriously, Clubs make these types of calls all of the time, older vs young, selecting someone carrying an injury or underdone over someone. We make it every week with Ablett and Taylor. We have to make a call to play Duncan who might be carrying something.

Over the course of the H&A season the 22nd player you select generally doesn't cost you, can kill you in a final, We'll be able to cross him off the list well before we get there if we have to. I feel as if he has been better each game he plays and the player he'll be at the end of the year will barely resemble what he is now, I see glimpses of it in how he moves that makes me want to continue with him.

in 6 rounds we've played 28 players, I expect that another 5 to 7 players will probably get a shot at some point this year to do what Simpson just did.

 

[romeohwho]

So do you see how others, especially some of our kids, could interpret that as him being given a free pass based on nothing more than a past reputation and a hope that he gets back to where he was several years ago?

Not really- I see that as a pretty limited view to be honest. Everyone at the club works together to give us the best chance to play good footy. Our club seems -pretty decent( which is also part of the way they are treating Steven) and I suspect that this approach is reflective of an ethos throughout the club. Charlie Constable, for example, always looks cheerful when I see him on training track. So I assume it’s just cranky posters on BF who have more of ‘it’s not fair’, than the players actually have.

 

[Mr Meow]

Drawing the bow a bit long there I reckon.

Aerobic fitness wasn't as fundamental to Warne's game as it is to Jack's.

Talk about his metres ran then. How many times did he get the ball or to contests and how does this compare to averages for his position? I like all of this data and meaningful observations, not "omg but he's fat though!"