Geelong: why are they just not good enough?

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HTPunter

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Yeah, I mean weather could have played a part and Stanley's certainly not a perfect option, but against Grundy, if your life depended on the result, he was clearly our best option to not get absolutely smashed.

And remember mid-year when the pundits were making such a huge deal about the gameplan of one player up in a contest and the rest waiting for crumbs? Not last night: it was two players spoiling each other and a Collingwood player staying down and collecting the spillage, or two Geelong players looking at each other, while a Collingwood player flew for an uncontested mark. That and the lack of pressure on Collingwood players moving the ball up the ground on the wider ground (which we had played very well during the year). And of course, Rohan and Hawkins butchering gimmes in the first quarter: never a good sign when that happens.

I suppose the silver lining from last night is it's blindingly obvious what went wrong. So it should be fixable.
Grundy looked absolutely gassed in the last quarter, there were half a dozen contests where he was literally crawling hands and knees while the ball went. He was super all night but he was pushed to the limits aerobically with the rotations and the Geelong ruck switching - however the game was already lost.

I can't figure out why Scott wouldn't choose to go for a 3 or 4 pronged ruck attack but with an actual ruck leading the way. Stanley rotating with Sav (both pushing forward) with Hawkins doing bulk of forward stoppages and Blicavs in defence would have had the same effect of running Grundy around, but limiting/minimising his early dominance as much as possible.
 

Supercoach Bargain

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The Cats best is very good, they peaked too early in the season.
Not having a ruck man against Grundy was a problem, but that was obvious.
Using Blicavs as the ruckman created another problem in the back half. The back 6 were very settled and consistent.
Some guns had a quiet night all together, not likely to happen twice.
Hawkins not kicking a goal. If you play a FF, he has to kick them.
Rohan getting hurt slowed down their front half, Dahlhaus did not pick up the slack.
Duncan going out early robbed them of leg speed.
 

Damon_3388

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Grundy looked absolutely gassed in the last quarter, there were half a dozen contests where he was literally crawling hands and knees while the ball wnt. He was super all night but he was pushed to the limits aerobically with the rotations and the Geelong ruck switching - however the game was already lost.
Grundy often looks like that towards the end of games. I'd say that's as much to do with his cumulative workload, and his workload during games, as it was to do with Geelong's rucks specifically.

Grundy has played all 49 games for the Pies so far in the past two seasons (averaging 88.69% gametime), and has played 90 of a possible 93 games from 2016-present (averaging 87.04% gametime). That's insane for a still-young big bloke; Still only 25, in his 7th AFL season. His workload and workrate is enormous, and he gives it absolute everything, game on game, year on year.
 

demondavey

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The issue clearly exists post bye. And now it’s worse with the week off before finals. You’d think Geelong would be pulling out all their resources to identify why this happens, sports psychologists etc to get an understanding as to why this is occurring.

Collingwood kicking 20 points to nine early on basically sealed it, you know Geelong aren’t getting back from that, particularly when Rohan sprayed a 30m set shot on the full and Hawkins was off. Since 2016 it’s been a huge failure for Geelong, plus straight sets in 2014.

They’ll no doubt bounce back with vigour next week but WC can absorb that, they’re a good team. If Geelong win it’s up to Brisbane (where I actually give them a decent chance) or at the MCG against Richmond which would be a whitewash given how Richmond play. But then if they’d won last night they’d be playing the PF after a week off so maybe they’re better going the long way.
 

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GastevsBeard

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On Friday they were good enough. But they were mentally rattled from the first bounce giving Collingwood a start. Then Rohan and Hawkins choked with very easy/gettable shots & they fluffed a golden opportunity to get back in the game

If you were to rate Collingwood and Geelong's mental application in the game, Pies 8/10, Cats 1/10. Who knows why, but seems a combo of

1. Chris Scott's incessant whinging about which ground they were playing at
2. Mental demons from poor first week performances in finals
3. Mental demons from post-bye footy
4. Injury-debacle prior to the first bounce
 

Gavin Excell

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The issue clearly exists post bye. And now it’s worse with the week off before finals. You’d think Geelong would be pulling out all their resources to identify why this happens, sports psychologists etc to get an understanding as to why this is occurring.

Collingwood kicking 20 points to nine early on basically sealed it, you know Geelong aren’t getting back from that, particularly when Rohan sprayed a 30m set shot on the full and Hawkins was off. Since 2016 it’s been a huge failure for Geelong, plus straight sets in 2014.

They’ll no doubt bounce back with vigour next week but WC can absorb that, they’re a good team. If Geelong win it’s up to Brisbane (where I actually give them a decent chance) or at the MCG against Richmond which would be a whitewash given how Richmond play. But then if they’d won last night they’d be playing the PF after a week off so maybe they’re better going the long way.
Unfortunately the master coach Scott refuses to acknowledge the post bye record is an issue

"We dont listen to external noises "
 

Roddy

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Part of the problem is that they have ridiculous pointy-end talent, but fall away horrendously after that. That wins you games, but not flags...
 

Dan26

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They're not done with yet.

I'm very confident they'll do what most Qualifying Final losers do, after they are inevitably written off, and that's win in week 2. They couldn't have played worse on Friday, yet nearly won, and still kept their opponents to 9 goals. They are never great after a bye; they'll make some adjustments and bounce back

I'm astounded that West Coast are favourites at the MCG. Geelong will win, and win easily.
 

Damon_3388

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Part of the problem is that they have ridiculous pointy-end talent, but fall away horrendously after that. That wins you games, but not flags...
B: Jake Kolodjashnij - Mark Blicavs - Jed Bews
HB: Tom Stewart - Harry Taylor - Zach Tuohy
C: Mitch Duncan - Patrick Dangerfield - Brandan Parfitt
HF: Gary Ablett - Tom Hawkins - Luke Dahlhaus
F: Gryan Miers - Esava Ratugolea - Gary Rohan
R: Rhys Stanley - Joel Selwood - Tim Kelly
I: Nakia Cockatoo - Quinton Narkle - Sam Menegola - Cameron Guthrie
E: Tom Atkins - Jordan Cunico - Charlie Constable - Mark O'Connor

To me that's a good, balanced side with versatility and quality on every line. I honestly think that should have been the side they fielded last night (only one of the 26 - Jordan Cunico - are on the injured list at the moment), with a license to attack.
 

Damon_3388

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When was the last time a minor premier went out in straight sets?
I think I read 1983.
I think what is more damning than a single instance of straight sets as minor premier is that if Geelong lose the semi, under Chris Scott, it will be their 4th top-2 H&A finish without a GF appearance, and will be their 3rd top-4 H&A finish without a Prelim appearance ("straight sets"). A pattern of not really getting "value for money" and capitalising on good H&A work.

Are you "finals chokers" if you make the GF (1989, 1992, 1994, 1995) and lose to better sides (the Cats were minor premiers in just one of those seasons, and top-2 in one other), or if your final result (after the finals are done) is less than your H&A finish?
 

Wojcinski

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I think what is more damning than a single instance of straight sets as minor premier is that if Geelong lose the semi, under Chris Scott, it will be their 4th top-2 H&A finish without a GF appearance, and will be their 3rd top-4 H&A finish without a Prelim appearance ("straight sets"). A pattern of not really getting "value for money" and capitalising on good H&A work.

Are you "finals chokers" if you make the GF (1989, 1992, 1994, 1995) and lose to better sides (the Cats were minor premiers in just one of those seasons, and top-2 in one other), or if your final result (after the finals are done) is less than your H&A finish?
Geelong has only gone out in straight sets once (2014)
 
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Now 3-8 in finals since the 2011 flag.

For a club who's constantly up there and has had 4x top 4 finishes in those 6 years (a great achievement), it's a sobering record. No grand finals.

What is going on there? Are they simply marking time and middling: not good enough to truly challenge and not regenerating either?

Do they need a change in philosophy?
Geelong are still in the finals and Essendon isn't, why just essendon arent good enough...
 

RedBullRacing

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Look at who Collingwood got, then compare that with Geelong. Collingwood have definitely traded better than any other club.

Geelong are top heavy but even they aren't firing on all cylinders. The rest of their list is average at best.
 

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