Geelong: why are they just not good enough?

Ray Donovan

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I assumed he was originally getting a game, because others weren't due to injury. He's made a decent account of himself as a first year player, but he's not "clearly best 22" with everyone up and going, really.



Umm, I wasn't...

I know Cunico is a different player, who would likely also be around the mark for Geelong if fit, particularly because he provides a point of difference as an outside runner compared to a lot of their midfielders. He's a better player when fit right now than Clark.



I was putting up an "everyone fully fit" best 22. Would Cockatoo not be in or around the side, if fully fit? I think he would.

Either way, we're quibbling over the 19th-27th players, who aren't exactly going to make or break the Cats' fortunes, surely.
Lol Jordan Clark is 100% best 22 if fit and available. Your just dribbling on!!! With zero logic so the bloke who played 18 out of 19 got injured wasn't best 22.

The Jordan cunico that was drafted (59) in 2014 😂😂😂😂 and played 15 games. This is 100% your own ego talking to yourself and just looking up stats.

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You didn't even name Jordan Clark in your list squib. Why would you even try and predict the side for next season?

I didn't even comment on your side all you did was take two players out of the side that played on the weekend and brought in Stanley & Cockatoo lol

And then call it a future predictor side what purpose does this even pose. Kelly, Ablett, Taylor probably are not even going to be there next year.

You can dribble what ever you like out stick to your pies mate because you watch them every week
 
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Damon_3388

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Lol Jordan Clark is 100% best 22 if fit and available. Your just dribbling on!!! With zero logic so the bloke who played 18 out of 19 got injured wasn't best 22.

The Jordan cunico that was drafted (59) in 2014 😂😂😂😂 and played 15 games. This is 100% your own ego talking to yourself and just looking up stats.

View attachment 742697

You didn't even name Jordan Clark in your list squib. Why would you even try and predict the side for next season?

I didn't even comment on your side all you did was take two players out of the side that played on the weekend and brought in Stanley & Cockatoo lol

And then call it a future predictor side what purpose does this even pose. Kelly, Ablett, Taylor probably are not even going to be there next year.

You can dribble what ever you like out stick to your pies mate because you watch them every week
I'm not trying to predict the Cats' side for next season. I never at any stage said that. I'm offering my opinion on what their hypothetical best 22 would be today if you had everyone 100% fit. Feel free to disagree, but you're quibbling pretty hard over an 18-year-old first year player who isn't going to make or break your fortunes in 2019. Fair enough, you might rate him higher than I do, but it's not future prediction or "he'll become a great player", it's "win right now" that I'm talking about.

The argument you're making for Jordan Clark could be the same argument to be made for Jordan Cunico, who was a regular part of the Cats' side last year. However, Cunico has been injured for all of this year. Theoretically, he would be playing every week if fit, probably ahead of someone like Clark.

Do you have an argument or discussion beyond selecting people based on draft position, and just dismissing me as some clueless idiot? It's pretty rich and ridiculous to clearly misinterpret my original post, and then personally attack me. I won't be baited into some personal slanging match, because I don't know you and frankly don't care about you enough to do that, and I'm above that. Discussion on BigFooty isn't about ego or "internet reputation" for me. If you get off on that or feel like you've got to "prove yourself" above others here, so be it.

The team I support should have nothing to do with it, either. If anything, it probably provides me with a more unbiased view not affected by passion.
 

Ray Donovan

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I'm not trying to predict the Cats' side for next season. I never at any stage said that. I'm offering my opinion on what their hypothetical best 22 would be today if you had everyone 100% fit. Feel free to disagree, but you're quibbling pretty hard over an 18-year-old first year player who isn't going to make or break your fortunes in 2019. Fair enough, you might rate him higher than I do, but it's not future prediction or "he'll become a great player", it's "win right now" that I'm talking about.

The argument you're making for Jordan Clark could be the same argument to be made for Jordan Cunico, who was a regular part of the Cats' side last year. However, Cunico has been injured for all of this year. Theoretically, he would be playing every week if fit, probably ahead of someone like Clark.

Do you have an argument or discussion beyond selecting people based on draft position, and just dismissing me as some clueless idiot? It's pretty rich and ridiculous to clearly misinterpret my original post, and then personally attack me. I won't be baited into some personal slanging match, because I don't know you and frankly don't care about you enough to do that, and I'm above that. Discussion on BigFooty isn't about ego or "internet reputation" for me. If you get off on that or feel like you've got to "prove yourself" above others here, so be it.

The team I support should have nothing to do with it, either. If anything, it probably provides me with a more unbiased view not affected by passion.
Win right now side ? If everyone was 100% fit? It's win right now with blokes who aren't available relevant in 2019. GWS or Collingwoods out list would make the best spreadsheet for that so many injuries.

So Jordan Cunico the reason I named his draft year was to emphasize the point he has played 15-16 games in 5 years. Not one this season due to injury and your perception is he is theoretically when fit best 22 in front of clark. So your wind up side swipe selecting people on draft positions yeah 5 years on the list.!!

Just so we get this part of the discussion correct he was available before an ankle injury in the VFL. When he couldn't crack the senior team and Jordan Clark was in the senior team in his first year.

You theoretically think cunico could be best 22 every week if not injured. I find that a questionable point of view maybe some other Geelong supporters or AFL followers in general may have other views.
 

matey

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Second half of the season is more of a yardstick of where the Cats are at with their playing list. They will drop down the ladder in the next year or two dramatically as their best players are old or leaving and they have little coming through to replace them with. Scary times.
 

PenfoldsFan

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Second half of the season is more of a yardstick of where the Cats are at with their playing list. They will drop down the ladder in the next year or two dramatically as their best players are old or leaving and they have little coming through to replace them with. Scary times.
Im not so sure, people have been saying this since 2011 but it hasn't happened really since and nor will it for mine.
The AFL see them as a top 8 clogger, not good enough to win a flag but the home ground advantage provides them enough wins to keep interstaters out of the double chance and out of the 8 too at times.
When you see headlines highlighting the lack of Vicco teams in the 8 at the half way point its pretty obvious that anything less than a 50/50 split is unacceptable to the AFL's hierarchy.
They'll find them some ready made talent who 'want to come home' and disguise it as free agency, and so the wheel turns..
 

SunshineTiger

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Over the years, I've noticed that a number of Geelong's stars get inflated reputations from Home & Away matches. They run up the score against weak opposition on their small home ground. They get selected in All Australian teams ahead of better players. And then in September against quality opposition on the bigger grounds, they fail to produce.

Tom Hawkins is a perfect example. (I posted this in the match thread. Thought I'd repost it here.)

Another poor finals performance last night vs Collingwood: Zero goals, zero goal assists and 4 behinds. A couple of costly misses in the 1st quarter which seemed to deflate the whole team. Went missing through the middle of the game. Had a great chance with less than a minute to go which would've reduced the margin to less than a goal. Pretty straight forward shot, only 25m out and directly in front. He also got both hands on that long centre clearance of Dangerfield's near the end of the game, but he spilled the mark in the goal square. It would've been a goal if he got out of the way and didn't touch it.


Since his break-out performance in the 2011 GF, Hawkins has been good in just one final (5 goals v NM in 2014)
In the other 11 finals, he has averaged just 3.9 marks, 1.09 goals and 0.45 goal assists


Tom Hawkins - finals (2012-2019)
2012 EF - Lost v Freo - 3 marks, 0 goals, 1 assist
2013 QF - Lost v Freo - DNP
2013 SF - Won v Port - 3 marks, 2 goals
2013 PF - Lost v Haw - 4 marks, 1 goal, 1 assist
2014 QF - Lost v Haw - 2 marks, 1 goal, 1 assist
2014 SF - Lost v NM - 13 marks, 5 goals
2016 QF - Won v Haw - 4 marks, 2 goals
2016 PF - Lost v Syd. - 4 marks, 1 goal
2017 QF - Lost v Rich - 6 marks, 1 goal, 1 assist
2017 SF - Won v Syd - 3 marks, 1 goal, 1 assist
2017 PF - Lost v Adel - 3 marks, 1 goal
2018 EF - Lost v Melb - 7 marks, 2 goals
2019 QF - Lost v Coll - 4 marks, 0 goals


Finals goals
(career)
avg
2.88 - L Franklin (24 games, 69 goals)
2.41 - N Riewoldt (17 games, 41 goals)
2.40 - J Kennedy (15 games, 36 goals)
2.33 - J Gunston (15 games, 35 goals)
2.30 - T Walker (10 games, 23 goals)
2.27 - B Hall __(22 games, 50 goals)
2.24 - J Roughead (21 games, 47 goals)
2.22 - J Riewoldt (9 games, 20 goals)
1.88 - J Brown (17 games, 32 goals)
1.87 - J Darling (15 games, 28 goals)
1.79 - T Cloke (19 games, 34 goals)
1.67 - B Fevola (6 games, 10 goals)
1.57 - J Jenkins (7 games, 11 goals)
1.50 - J Cameron (6 games, 9 goals)
1.38 - T Hawkins (21 games, 29 goals)


Don't get me wrong. He's a good player, but I just think he is massively overrated by the sycophantic AFL media.
For some reason, Geelong's stars seem to escape the media blowtorch which is applied to other under-performing stars.
P McKenna 11 games 46 goals 4.18 goals per game full forward
K Bartlett 27 games 62 goals 2.29 goals per game as a rover
L Matthews 29 games 72 goals 2.48 goals per game as a rover
 

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catman2006

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Geelong over achieve with the list they have and have done for a long time, lack of quality draft picks does hurt and catches up with teams, beauty is Cats wont fall off a cliff as some have predicted and by cliff I mean wont finish bottom 5, still half a dozen players to come in over the next 12 mths plus best lot of draft picks in years, some could argue the rebirth isn't far away...
 

thecatattack

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So did I hear aright - Geelong offered Goldy 4 years?

Absolutely reeks of desperation.
Not sure I agree with giving a 31yr old 4yrs but ruck has been our weakest spot since Ottens retired so of course, we're going to do whatever we can to get a premium ruckman.
 

MarvinMonroePhD

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With Kelly set to leave, and now that Jack Steven plays off a half forward flank until he can build some fitness, do the cats target a proven A-Grade midfielder to compliment Dangerfield? Or do they do through the draft?
 

thecatattack

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With Kelly set to leave, and now that Jack Steven plays off a half forward flank until he can build some fitness, do the cats target a proven A-Grade midfielder to compliment Dangerfield? Or do they do through the draft?
Is Steven not an A-grade mid?

1 off-season of hard work and he'll be fit tbh
 

thecatattack

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He definitely was an A-Grade mid but he will be 30 at the start of next season, think his best footy is behind him unfortunately.
His best may be behind him but I don't think that means he'll be bad or not A-grade level if he's fit and healthy again.

He's essentially the same age as Danger, born about a week apart, and I don't think it's reasonable to say Danger is just going to fall off because he turns 30.

His level of play is whether or not he can be fit and healthy again rather than an arbitrary age cutoff.
 

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