Geelong: why are they just not good enough?

[TigerHunter]

I would factor luck and form-line as really big reasons. If the cats were in form as they were for the first half of the season I don't think they lose at least one of them between 17-19. I know people like to have a dig about who wins the GF and how they got an easy run or poor opposition etc but it is apparent to anyone who knows the game that finals are hard to win and flags so much harder.

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

I would factor luck and form-line as really big reasons. If the cats were in form as they were for the first half of the season I don't think they lose at least one of them between 17-19. I know people like to have a dig about who wins the GF and how they got an easy run or poor opposition etc but it is apparent to anyone who knows the game that finals are hard to win and flags so much harder.

Yeah, and I go back to my point that they have a few older players. I think that is partly the reason for form tapering off. Think Ablett only missed one game?

Next year, in the first half of year particularly, don't travel him. Just Melb/GMHBA games. Plays maybe 16-18 games, hits the finals much fresher.

 

[COOGRE]

Geelong losing kelly with affect the club massively. I don't see them getting Steven as he is worth a 1 rounder at minimum. Not being able to pick up superstars like Steven after just losing Kelly will see the cats miss the 8.

 

[Catters 070911]

If Blicavs played on Lynch and Lynch still kicked six you could have swapped Blicavs to Reiwodlt and he would still be in defence

Geelong went 11 and 1 at the start of the year with a settled defence built around Blicavs. Blicavs was a lock for AA full back at the mid season break.

Your genius coach decided that you rucks are s**t - which is probably a fair observation - and took Blicavs out of defence to play ruck at times for the second half of the season. Compounding the stupidity of this decision is the fact that Blicavs is not even a good ruck Geelong subsequently went 5 and 5 or whatever it was.

But that is not even the problem. Scott tried something, it didn't work, that is ok. The problem is he persisted with it in the final against Collingwood and was rightly criticised for it.

But even that is not the problem. After refusing to admit he was wrong, and after further refusing he screwed up again in the Collingwood final, he put Blicavs on a wing out of pure pigheadedness instead of putting him back in defence.

That is the problem. Scott refuses to accept ever that he might have made a mistake. And every single he gets accursed of screwing up he blames everyone but himself - "we have a whole coaching team, it was a joint decision", "players didn't execute", "why can't we play at Kardinia" - or he doubles down and either repeats the mistake or worse compounds it by making another one (Blicavs to the wing).

His pigheadedness is hurting Geelong.

But Riewoldt was getting beaten, so why move his man, who is already doing a good job on him.

All that might do is that Jack starts kicking goals on him.

When did Mark Blicavs become the new Matthew Scarlett?

When did Mark Blicavs become some superstar and finals swing on him all of a sudden?


Stand back Silvagni, Langford, Dench, Regan, Scarlett, Rance etc, he comes Mark Blicavs.

Blicavs could have been anything. It is rare to have a tall player who can also run. He could play midfield, ruck, in defence or up forward.

The problem is that his skills aren't good enough for some of these, so he has to play back, not because he is a superstar, but because he isn't one.

Also, when have you ever heard ANY coach publicly admit that they got it wrong?

I don't remember Alistair Clarkson admitting when he got something wrong.

Maybe you have the right to call Scott out for being wrong when you choose to give him credit for what he has done right- like the 2011 flag, like playing Gryan Miers in the side every week etc, like bringing youth through (unlike Bomber who was prepared to play ageing premiership heroes until we fell off a cliff).

Did Bomber ever take responsibility for the 2008 GF loss, and his poor coaching in it, or for stuffing up Essendon?

Do the players ever take responsibility in not tackling and chasing in finals, or in finals losses? Scott can't be out there, doing it for them.

I have said it before, and I will say it again. If you hold Scott 100% responsible for losses, then he is 100% responsible for wins either. If players don't have any effect on losses, then they have no effect on winning either. Personally, I like to split the credit and the blame.


Fact is, our list isn't good enough, and Bomber wouldn't win a flag with our current list. So maybe other areas of the club (recruiting, conditioning, list management) needs to be looked at instead.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Hang on, Geelong were great most of the year and monstered many teams.
If l had to say why they didn’t go all the way then it started when Dangerfield got cocky (probably a bit of sledging going on) after the 50mtr free.
Dusty fired up and Richmond fired up. Geelong couldn’t run with us after the half time break, they looked flat, disjointed and lacked timing.
These are the questions.....
Did they have belief that they could win it?
Did pressure get to them when the heat was on?
Or was it just a game of footy and the best team won?

Thats a pretty good post and a very fair and accurate summation of the situation

I was happy with Geelongs year - its an if - but kick straight in the 2nd qtr against Tigers - then could have been 6 goals up at half time - and may have hung on - if so would be premiers . I tipped Richmond on the Geel board in the GF by close to 100 pts - GWS were inferior and banged up

Cats had a chance of a flag in 13 ( narrow loss in the PF ) - since then 14-18 havent had the cattle to win a flag - and never been a serious chance - but did well to make the finals - alot of teams just miss out - year in year out

Ive got no problem with season 2019 - because the best team ( even without Rance ) - most talented team won the GF - and Richmond have clearly been the No 1 team for the last 3 years

And your last sentence was spot on re the 19PF " Or was it just a game of footy and the best team won "

Alot of big footy posters however want to bag the absolute shiit out of everything .

 

[QuietB]

When did Mark Blicavs become the new Matthew Scarlett?

In the first half of the season. Under the tutelage of Matthew Scarlett incidentally.

Lynch is dominating and you have a proven full back, Geelong's best full back playing on the wing. Are you seriously going to defend that?

 

[Partridge]

In the first half of the season. Under the tutelage of Matthew Scarlett incidentally.

Lynch is dominating and you have a proven full back, Geelong's best full back playing on the wing. Are you seriously going to defend that?

The irony is, if you dare suggest on the Geelong board that Blicavs is anything but wonderful if every position (in reality he’s tremendous as a key defender and rubbish everywhere else), the pitchforks come out immediately. He’s almost as immune from criticism as Scott is.

 

[Bazza97]

If you want to be a top of the ladder team, then you simply need to maintain your good start throughout the season. All Minor Premiers since Fremantle 2015 except for Sydney 2016 had this problem. If you’re middling after the halfway point of the season, then you’re just not the best side anymore.

The problem with Geelong though is that I don’t believe they play a style of footy that holds up in finals. Pressure goes up in finals and their gameplan is not one that caters for opposition pressure all that well. They need to change that up.

They were very good in the first 12 rounds. After that, they didn't win consecutive games again for the rest of the year. However, they didn't lose any consecutive games for the whole season which is very impressive. Although they finished on top at the end of the H&A season, it was clear after round 12 that they weren't the best side in the comp on form so it didn't surprise me that they failed to make the GF. I think it's quite possible the Cats have missed their window for a premiership with this team. I'm expecting them to drop next year, they'll probably do enough to make finals but I don't think they'll seriously contend next season.

 

[jezza1435]

No other club has been labeled “flag favorite” throughout so many seasons end on end in home and away games, for zero result when the real stuff starts.

It is all about gambling is it? How F'in dumb is that? Who cares about gambling money

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It is all about gambling is it? How F'in dumb is that? Who cares about gambling money

No it’s about being the supposed standout team that then does nothing when the whips are cracking.

 

[CatFan79]

So Blicavs should only ever play in defence?

What if Blicavs played defence, and Lynch still kicked five on him? Should we move him, since that would mean not playing him in defence.

Blicavs was the best Matchup for Lynch going into the game, this is undeniable so your 'what if' is nonsensical.

 

[Tiger2709]

Trust me I know our team well, l watch every game twice over. Sport is funny like that, sometimes teams do lift when poked. Is it coincidental that we had dusty going nuts and the rest of our team going up a few notches in intensity?

I notice we made a concerted effort to shut Danger out of the game and did.

Dusty had a go at him, Lynch flattened him with a nice sheppard, Cotch generally gives him hell etc.

As hes one of if not the quickest and best at Geelong and with Ablett exerting little influence and of course no Hawkins, it allowed us to change the game to our turn over style with a backman always free to cut off attacks.

Once that happened it was game over, Richmond are hard to stop once they get the game on thier terms.

Geelong should have bitten the bullet on Ablett and Taylor imo, not going to get any better and although Gaz made the AA squad his finals told the tale of an aging player, they will really need to manage his hours next year.

Big chance to improve the side with the picks they get from Kelly but stuff it up and they are in trouble, he was the standout of their finals.

 

[Ray Donovan]

Yes.

1. Geelong’s start to the year coincided with two things IMO. The first was Dahlhaus and Rowan fixed the forward pressure issue. With Hawkins, Ablett, Menzel and sometimes Taylor teams have been waltzing out of Geelong’s defence for years. For the first half of this year that was resolved. By the end of the year Scott had abandoned it.

2. The second thing was a settled defence. Blicavs was the AA full back at the halfway point of the year and Geelong’s defence was miserly. Again Chris Scott abandoned this. And worse he outright refused to put Blicavs back again in finals. This was nothing more than pigheadedness.

3. His complaining about playing week 1 of finals at the MCG was unforgivable. An AFL coach has one job in finals and that is to prepare your team for every game they have to play. Anyone anywhere anytime. Instead he created a circus that would not go away for two weeks. It also created a sense of entitlement rather than an urgency to work/win. It was plainly unprofessional.

4. Inability to take any responsibility. Week after week Scott took zero responsibility for losses. Cameroon wasn’t that good. Lynch wasn’t that good. Our execution simply wasn’t up to scratch. That is not going to build respect from your own players who understand exactly what happened on the ground. If fact it is more likely to do the opposite. And remember again the coach has one job - prepare your team. How is shifting responsibility to your players execution building them up for the next challenge? It is not - it is selfishly protecting yourself.

5. Not taking responsibility for selection. The Stanley thing was a debacle. Again blame sharing was nothing more than self serving deflection. Sir Alex Ferguson would have never done it. Bill Belichick would not have done it. Neither would Gregg Poppovich or any other great coach. It was shocking leadership.

I’m not convinced Geelong are good enough to win it all but the above pretty much ruined any chance they had.

I didn't get much past menzel

 

[Partridge]

Yeah, and I go back to my point that they have a few older players. I think that is partly the reason for form tapering off. Think Ablett only missed one game?

Next year, in the first half of year particularly, don't travel him. Just Melb/GMHBA games. Plays maybe 16-18 games, hits the finals much fresher.

That's the problem though. I'm not sure any team could or should support part time players. If they can't be out there more than 16-18 times a year, maybe we shouldn't be keeping someone who will turn 36 next year on the list. It's hard enough to compete and win games - and then finals - with everyone fit and ready. Accepting already existing limitations doesn't seem like the best idea to me.

 

[Partridge]

Have to admit, I heard this news last night and it's utterly ridiculous.
Taylor is cooked.
Ablett probably has another year left in him but when a player begins to fall to the ground consistently and they're on the wrong side of 30, it often means they are finished.
I have never seen Ablett go to ground as often as he did in the latter stages of the year.

We either have very little depth at VFL level, or the club has a false sense of where they are at.

Fingers crossed we get another blessed run with injuries and we find an immediate replacement for Tim Kelly.

I think the bolded is far more true than anyone would hope.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I would factor luck and form-line as really big reasons. If the cats were in form as they were for the first half of the season I don't think they lose at least one of them between 17-19. I know people like to have a dig about who wins the GF and how they got an easy run or poor opposition etc but it is apparent to anyone who knows the game that finals are hard to win and flags so much harder.

People are more than welcome to disagree with me, but the pre-bye team WAS different. It was premiership calibre football, easily and I think it would have taken Richmond's absolute best to beat the Cats of the first three months. They were clinical and they were doing it under pressure and on the big stage.

The difficult thing to pinpoint was what actually happened. Good run with injuries, relatively easy opponents, lots of games at home... what happened? The best guess is flirting with form, trying new things, getting happy with themselves after three months of good footy.

There were little signs. Remember when the pundits were making a big deal about how it was always one Geelong player up in a contest, with the rest swarming at his feet? Not in the finals. There we got to see our defenders either spoiling each other, or looking at each other blankly as an opponent flew for an unexpected uncontested mark.

Scott's getting criticism, deservedly so. But I hope that doesn't let Hawkins off the hook. Everyone loves him and he's a great fella, but his last 4-5 weeks were nothing short of an embarrasment - for him and for those of us who defend him to the death. He arguably cost us a spot in the grand final, it's really that simple.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

In the first half of the season. Under the tutelage of Matthew Scarlett incidentally.

Lynch is dominating and you have a proven full back, Geelong's best full back playing on the wing. Are you seriously going to defend that?

It's a roll of the dice at best, but you could even switch Henderson and Taylor... the only thing you can't do is sit back and do nothing.

If Taylor had stayed on Travis Cloke in 2011, maybe Scott wouldn't be a premiership coach at all. A change was made after Cloke was looking like a match winner early on and he had no influence after the first quarter.

 

[Catters 070911]

In the first half of the season. Under the tutelage of Matthew Scarlett incidentally.

Lynch is dominating and you have a proven full back, Geelong's best full back playing on the wing. Are you seriously going to defend that?

Oh, I forgot, Matthew Scarlett, the guy a lot of people here really want as our senior coach (despite him not exactly being charismatic or someone who is a talker (something vital to be a senior coach), has turned Blicavs into the greatest full-back of all time, in your opinion.

So forget Doull, Dench, Southby, Regan, Langford, Rance, Silvagni etc, Blicavs has, in the eyes of posters here, became the leading contender for "Fullback Of The 21st century".

Maybe the problem is that everyone here, and even the club overrate Blicavs. He should be able to play any position, being an elite runner and being tall, it makes him hard to match up on. He should be able to play wing, defence, KPF, ruck, be a running HBF etc. But he is put in defence, because he is not as bad at that as he is at other spots.

Blicavs has been flattered by his two best-and-fairests at a club where our B& F system is dodgy (he has won 2 B&Fs , whereas Ablett snr won one, and Jimmy Bartel won none).

I would have loved to have seen the egg on your faces if Blicavs had been beaten by Lynch, moved to the wing and picked up 30 possessions and turned the game. That is the sort of thing he should be doing. Maybe CS erred in expecting more from Blicavs then he is capable, and should see him for what he is, an average defender in an average backline.

 

[QuietB]

Oh, I forgot, Matthew Scarlett, the guy a lot of people here really want as our senior coach (despite him not exactly being charismatic or someone who is a talker (something vital to be a senior coach), has turned Blicavs into the greatest full-back of all time, in your opinion.

So forget Doull, Dench, Southby, Regan, Langford, Rance, Silvagni etc, Blicavs has, in the eyes of posters here, became the leading contender for "Fullback Of The 21st century".

Maybe the problem is that everyone here, and even the club overrate Blicavs. He should be able to play any position, being an elite runner and being tall, it makes him hard to match up on. He should be able to play wing, defence, KPF, ruck, be a running HBF etc. But he is put in defence, because he is not as bad at that as he is at other spots.

Blicavs has been flattered by his two best-and-fairests at a club where our B& F system is dodgy (he has won 2 B&Fs , whereas Ablett snr won one, and Jimmy Bartel won none).

I would have loved to have seen the egg on your faces if Blicavs had been beaten by Lynch, moved to the wing and picked up 30 possessions and turned the game. That is the sort of thing he should be doing. Maybe CS erred in expecting more from Blicavs then he is capable, and should see him for what he is, an average defender in an average backline.

You are ranting

"But he is put in defence, because he is not as bad at that as he is at other spots" SO PUT HIM THERE

 

[Catters 070911]

You are ranting

"But he is put in defence, because he is not as bad at that as he is at other spots" SO PUT HIM THERE

And if Lynch had kicked goals on him, then what....?

 

[Catters 070911]

Geelong losing kelly with affect the club massively. I don't see them getting Steven as he is worth a 1 rounder at minimum. Not being able to pick up superstars like Steven after just losing Kelly will see the cats miss the 8.

Losing an A-grade quality midfielder who has polled in the top five of two Brownlows, made AA twice in his first two years, and replacing him with a broken-down physically and mentally stuffed overweight 30-year-old like Steven will see us miss the eight anyway.

Tim Kelly >>>>>>>Jack Steven.

 

[Catters 070911]

You are ranting

"But he is put in defence, because he is not as bad at that as he is at other spots" SO PUT HIM THERE

Never knew Blicavs was a match-winner.

 

[QuietB]

Never knew Blicavs was a match-winner.

He may not be. But it was worth a try wasn't it?

 

[Catters 070911]

He may not be. But it was worth a try wasn't it?

I can see some of you now if Lynch kicked goals on Blicavs.

"Why did CS keep Blicavs on Lynch? A good coach would have moved Blicavs to the midfield".

If CS said it was raining, you would say it was sunny.

 

[threesixpio]

In the Hawthorn vs Geelong s**t fights on this board Geelong posters always raised their home and away record being better than Hawthorn’s.

By doing so they have actually managed to jinx their team to only do well home and away and to fail in finals ...possibly forever

That’s my theory