Geelongs 150 million government investment - Is this fair on the rest?

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jatz14

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Amazing that you didn't put any of that in your original post

again you are complaining that grounds used for training only aren't getting the same Government funding that a game that hosts AFL matches and services an entire region outside the Metro area gets
No, that isnt what he is saying. He is saying clubs that can afford to spend money on facilities, are being prevented from doing so, because its unfair on the rest of the clubs, but when the government is spending the money, it suddenly doesn't matter.
 

jatz14

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Amazing that you didn't put any of that in your original post

again you are complaining that grounds used for training only aren't getting the same Government funding that a game that hosts AFL matches and services an entire region outside the Metro area gets
Incidentally, I agree totally that the AFL should take advantages of deals like this whenever they come up, and 'fairness' to other clubs shouldn't come into it. Better to take advantage of this deal, and fix fairness by trying to arrange good deals for other clubs, than turn your nose up at $150 mill.
 

aussierulesrules

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Wojcinski

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Eagles arent based there, and its not used by the Eagles, its used by the AFL. The AFL schedule their WA matches there.
So the Eagles don't play home games at Optus Stadium? They don't benefit in any way from it? The AFL schedules WA games there but not for the Eagles?????
 

Rob

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The point is why are people from WA moaning about a provincial Victorian city and its stadium and who pays for it?
I'm not moaning about it at all. My point is this:
1. Geelong rents their training facility and pays an annual amount for that.
2. Part of that annual amount presumably goes towards the soft cap.
3. If that annual amount is below market value (and it probably is), how much gets included in the soft cap? The market value or the actual amount paid?
4. If the latter, what's stopping anyone getting around the soft cap by sourcing anything from club sponsors at well below market value?
 

Rob

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Eagles arent based there, and its not used by the Eagles, its used by the AFL. The AFL schedule their WA matches there.
The last bit isn't true. It's rented by the clubs, not the AFL. The league might fixture games there, but that's just about their total involvement.
 

Gigantor

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I'm not moaning about it at all. My point is this:
1. Geelong rents their training facility and pays an annual amount for that.
2. Part of that annual amount presumably goes towards the soft cap.
3. If that annual amount is below market value (and it probably is), how much gets included in the soft cap? The market value or the actual amount paid?
4. If the latter, what's stopping anyone getting around the soft cap by sourcing anything from club sponsors at well below market value?
I don't know the answers to these questions, but taking a step back, they are reasonable questions.

More broadly: what is included in the soft cap?
Do quirks arise from this policy which can impact clubs, both positively and negatively, and thus introduce a tiny bit of unfairness?
It's possible, even probable.
 

kranky al

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Simple question

Eagles are capped for spending on everything. Our football department, our recruiting department. We then have clubs with very poor facilities like North, St Kilda and Carlton. Now football dept actually includes facilities belive it or not. When Eagles re did Lathlain, AFL rejected our first proposal since we actually had to downgrade our facilities by over 10 million dollars based on our first proposal to meet the standards the AFL wanted

Taking both sides into account, is it OK for Geelong to get 150 million dollars of NON club and NON football revenue to improve there chances of victory? Would the AFL let Andrew Forrest invest 250 million into the West Coast Eagles for example or because it came from a goverment source, does it not matter?

If the Victorian Govt is giving money, why is the AFL not trying to get control over how its spent? Why would the AFL not ask for construction deals to be split out across the state and other teams to also receive help?

I personally think it is fair, BUT the AFL need to change its rules. Eagles for example shouldnt be held to a spending cap if Geelong are not and nor should other teams. Its just another case of one rule for some and another rule for the rest if you ask me. Gil wants to speak of equality but never and I mean EVER enacts any form of decision to enforce it. Unless changes are made, Gil has set the competition up to be the second most non equal sport in the world outside of soccer

Is this what we actually want?
isnt this geelongs stadium?

dont think youve thought this one out - wa govt just spent 1.5 billion on our stadium....
 

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Ned_Flanders

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You saints wouldnt mind having 100 million spend on stadium upgrades at Moorabbin Oval?

Upgrade the training facilities and make Moorabbin oval into An AFL venue that holds 30-35,000 seats, not to mention a fairer rent deal.
given the saints got money to build a second training facility because the first one wasn't near good coffee, i dont think they have much of a case to b*tch about the state being tight
 

Kwality

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The point is why are people from WA moaning about a provincial Victorian city and its stadium and who pays for it?
IF you had the original post its clear, the suggestion that the soft cap is not being applied evenly & Geelong FC was used as a comparison.
Eagles for example shouldnt be held to a spending cap if Geelong are not and nor should other teams.
I dont think the AFL are that silly although it is not beyond them.
The rubbish around that question being posted has lost the place, and the fact Geelong is a provincial city has no more to do with it than the Town of Victoria Park overseeing the Eagles development as one component of the Lathlain Park precinct , https://yourthoughts.victoriapark.wa.gov.au/LPRP

Everyone expects rules to be applied consistently, they are not & this sort of scrutiny will continue at least until a transparent inquiry of the sort proposed by Andrew Pridham.
 

GoEaglesGoSGIO

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isnt this geelongs stadium?

dont think youve thought this one out - wa govt just spent 1.5 billion on our stadium....
Im not discussing the stadium. I am purely discussing the new developments of 40+ mill to be spent on the facilties inside the stadium ie. training facilities.

Its a different scenario I think.

W.A govt didnt build our Lathlain Park precinct. The Victorian govt is building Geelongs though
 

Kwality

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Its only helping 1 team and 1 team only and has no ability to do anything but serve Geelongs interests. Its kind of the same concept. Why is the AFL letting hundreds of millions go into 1 team when the others are broke and on their ass?

The Victorian government actively went out of there way to improve the training facilities They are spending 40 mill on the facilities including training facilities. They got two lots of cash

We can change the title I suppose to 42 mill which is whats being spent on improving Geelongs footbal facilities
Might help your case if you linked the 42 mil claim.
&

Waurn Ponds training base:https://www.google.com/search?q=wau...URWCsKHRN_AqQQ_AUoA3oECAUQBQ&biw=1242&bih=597
 

kranky al

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Im not discussing the stadium. I am purely discussing the new developments of 40+ mill to be spent on the facilties inside the stadium ie. training facilities.

Its a different scenario I think.

W.A govt didnt build our Lathlain Park precinct. The Victorian govt is building Geelongs though
might wanna look at that again!!


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projectv

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You saints wouldnt mind having 100 million spend on stadium upgrades at Moorabbin Oval?

Upgrade the training facilities and make Moorabbin oval into An AFL venue that holds 30-35,000 seats, not to mention a fairer rent deal.
Geelong will always get better subsidies compared to other Melbourne based teams, because they're in a regional area + historically has been a marginal seat at State and Federal levels.

I have no problem with regional areas getting investment. We get it pretty good in the cities.

I'd love to see some cash given to St Kilda to upgrade Moorabbin, but the same argument could be easily trotted out from Essendon, North, Carlton and the Bulldogs.

A better focus would be to fix the terrible Etihad/Marvel stadium deal we all got, rather than trying to decentralise further.
 

kranky al

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Geelong will always get better subsidies compared to other Melbourne based teams, because they're in a regional area + historically has been a marginal seat at State and Federal levels.

I have no problem with regional areas getting investment. We get it pretty good in the cities.

I'd love to see some cash given to St Kilda to upgrade Moorabbin, but the same argument could be easily trotted out from Essendon, North, Carlton and the Bulldogs.

A better focus would be to fix the terrible Etihad/Marvel stadium deal we all got, rather than trying to decentralise further.
i had the idea in my head that the afl had taken over etihad and now the etihad tenants were getting a better deal?

can you please expand on that?
 

jatz14

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So the Eagles don't play home games at Optus Stadium? They don't benefit in any way from it? The AFL schedules WA games there but not for the Eagles?????
Optus is somewhere to play. It isnt their headquarters, training base etc. The advantage it brings is its bigger, so crowds are bigger. But the mCG is bigger again, does the MCG benefit anybody?

In any case, the argument is this. If club A goes, we can spend $150 mill on new facilities, and the AFL goes, Oh no you cant, that would be unfair on all the clubs that cannot afford to build facilities that good. Then it seems inconsistent if club A goes, the government is going to spend $150 mill on new facilities, and the AFL goes, what a great idea, lets do that. The money coming from government makes it even more unfair, as Geelong doesn't have to find the money.

If its ok for government spending to favour one club at the expense of others, why stop clubs that can spend that sort of money without government help, from doing so?
 

workhorse

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I read the article in the link provided by Kwality, and no where does it mention the $142mil development includes upgrades to Geelong FC's training facilities.

"The $142 million final stage works will include the construction of a new two-tier 14,000-seat grandstand, to replace the ageing Ford Stand and Ablett Terrace at the northern end of the ground.....

....As well as the new grandstand, work will also include a sports museum, retail space, function room, stadium Wi-Fi, LED signage, an entry plaza at the northern end of the stadium, a regional cricket hub outside the stadium and new change rooms for the Geelong Cricket Club...."
Unless someone has a more detailed article, it appears that the funding is to increase capacity and infrastructure at the venue, and not improve the facilities used by the Cats? Or am I missing something?

Isn't this akin to the MCG, or Marvel, or the Gabba etc. having capacity or amenity/infrastructure upgrades put in place? Just so happens that this stadium is only used as a home venue by one AFL club.
 

Wojcinski

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Optus is somewhere to play. It isnt their headquarters, training base etc. The advantage it brings is its bigger, so crowds are bigger. But the mCG is bigger again, does the MCG benefit anybody?

In any case, the argument is this. If club A goes, we can spend $150 mill on new facilities, and the AFL goes, Oh no you cant, that would be unfair on all the clubs that cannot afford to build facilities that good. Then it seems inconsistent if club A goes, the government is going to spend $150 mill on new facilities, and the AFL goes, what a great idea, lets do that. The money coming from government makes it even more unfair, as Geelong doesn't have to find the money.

If its ok for government spending to favour one club at the expense of others, why stop clubs that can spend that sort of money without government help, from doing so?
Is this an act you're putting on or are you really like this? You realise the $150mil is for the region of Geelong, not for the Geelong Football Club right?

"The package includes $40 million for community sport and recreation bodies including state sporting associations, leagues and clubs; $16 million for national sporting organisations; $5.3 million for the State Sport Centres Trust and the Kardinia Park Stadium Trust; as well as $44 million to the state’s racing industry."

The only way Geelong FC benefits from this is improvements being made to the Government owned Kardinia Park. Extra capacity and infrastructure.


 

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