News Geelong's position in Essendon investigation and ACC report

vealesy

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How black and white of you to point out more irrelevant events.

First off, individuals posting single lane race times do not have any effect on each other, so forget them. Apples and oranges here.

Just because your other points are footy related, does not relate to a team unknowingly systemically cheating, they are yet again apples and oranges.

The storm case is the only other case im aware of in AUSTRALIAN team sport that involves a team proven to be systemically cheating the rules. And the correct decision was made.
 

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FredLeDeux

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.

The storm case is the only other case im aware of in AUSTRALIAN team sport that involves a team proven to be systemically cheating the rules. And the correct decision was made.
Systematic salary cap rorting (like Storm) do you mean - a la Melbourne, Essendon, Carlton a while back?
 

topic97

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But we the public dont know whats happened. People are assuming and are listening to stories from the talking heads. What facts have been officially made public yet? Geez now im understanding how Hird feels. The investigation must run its proper course ffs!

And lol @ olympics. Hardly the pinnacle of ethical sporting organisations. i would throw a retrospective medal back in their face.

Wite the AFL a letter, since you seem to know more about this than they do.

Im hardly a fan boi of AFL house, quite the opposite, but if they ban essendon from competition without due process occurring i will give this game away.

Have you ever played sport or competed in anything? No true competitor wants retrospective titles and no true human being wants due process skipped over in favour of the uninformed public majority's media fed opinion!
So at the end of the day you are saying that you wouldn't care if essendon beat us in the grand final & then were deemed to be cheaters and their premiership stripped?!

Even if hard evidence is found before the conclusion of the season yet they appeal it in a court of law to string it out past the end of the season - which is most likely what the outcome will be?!

Sure, due corse needs to be taken to ensure they are guilty, but if you have players & the club admitting to it and ASADA saying they have proof it should be all over red rover IMO.

But as I said, it won't. Legal challenges will ensue & it won't end before the grand final, and essendon may well win a flag & then be stripped of it.

And if that's my team they cheated to beat, myself & majority of cats supporters will be PISSED!

Good on you if you are the only Cats supporter that won't be.
 

vealesy

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Of course id be pissed but i sure as hell wouldnt be begging for any kind of reward for losing a GF, against cheats or not.

And i sure as shit would not be begging for anyone to ever be suspended because of an investigation.
 

topic97

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Of course id be pissed but i sure as hell wouldnt be begging for any kind of reward for losing a GF, against cheats or not.

And i sure as shit would not be begging for anyone to ever be suspended because of an investigation.
I guess the big thing that doesn't sit well with me is the possibility of the AFL bringing in retrospective penalties due to the fact that the Bombers took the drugs last year.

If they do find them guilty & penalise them next year & beyond so be it, but if a decision is reached this season only to be delayed by legal challenges & then eventually a retrospective penalty is applied post Essendon winning a flag - itll be an extremely dark time for our game.
 

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How black and white of you to point out more irrelevant events.

First off, individuals posting single lane race times do not have any effect on each other, so forget them. Apples and oranges here.

Just because your other points are footy related, does not relate to a team unknowingly systemically cheating, they are yet again apples and oranges.

The storm case is the only other case im aware of in AUSTRALIAN team sport that involves a team proven to be systemically cheating the rules. And the correct decision was made.
We're lucky to have you here to tell us whether decisions are correct or not.
 

vealesy

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I guess the big thing that doesn't sit well with me is the possibility of the AFL bringing in retrospective penalties due to the fact that the Bombers took the drugs last year.

If they do find them guilty & penalise them next year & beyond so be it, but if a decision is reached this season only to be delayed by legal challenges & then eventually a retrospective penalty is applied post Essendon winning a flag - itll be an extremely dark time for our game.
Essendon will be stripped of it, so whats the issue?

Its up to everyone else to beat them.

They arent up the top just because of Dank.
 

topic97

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Essendon will be stripped of it, so whats the issue?

Its up to everyone else to beat them.

They arent up the top just because of Dank.
Sure, its up to everyone else to beat them, but if they have a distinct advantage against the rest of the competition due to performance enhancing substances - especially in a competition that is as tight as it is this year - how can that be fair?!

I just hope they drop off this year like they did last & it all becomes a non issue in the context of the premiership - then it wont matter.

Although Richmond may get pissed off when they finish 9th and Essendon 8th...... ;)
 

MrRockett24

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No one got the Storms premierships when they got taken away
Very true.

Probabaly because its NRL and AFL, which according to Vealesy are apples and oranges. :)

Really though, what melb storm did wasnt performance enhancing. They had a team of players who were offered more money to play elsewhere. Storm paid more to keep them.

Created overall Team enhanced performance I guess you could argue because by stacking your team with higher quality players should mean higher quality team performance.

But does a players worth in $$$ qualify as performance enhancement?

Substantially different to increasing muscle growth, endurance above standard training improvements etc etc.

Maybe that really is Apples and Oranges.
 

vealesy

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Sure, its up to everyone else to beat them, but if they have a distinct advantage against the rest of the competition due to performance enhancing substances - especially in a competition that is as tight as it is this year - how can that be fair?!

I just hope they drop off this year like they did last & it all becomes a non issue in the context of the premiership - then it wont matter.

Although Richmond may get pissed off when they finish 9th and Essendon 8th...... ;)
Fair?!

When has the AFL been fair?!
 

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vealesy

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Very true.

Probabaly because its NRL and AFL, which according to Vealesy are apples and oranges. :)

Really though, what melb storm did wasnt performance enhancing. They had a team of players who were offered more money to play elsewhere. Storm paid more to keep them.

Created overall Team enhanced performance I guess you could argue because by stacking your team with higher quality players should mean higher quality team performance.

But does a players worth in $$$ qualify as performance enhancement?

Substantially different to increasing muscle growth, endurance above standard training improvements etc etc.

Maybe that really is Apples and Oranges.
Its more like apples and pears.
 

AM

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I see in The Age that Vlad has taken it upon himself to contact the Bombers major sponsor to give his (AFL?) tick of approval for the way the Bombers are going about things in this matter.

As piece in The Age said:

Demetriou's intervention on behalf of Essendon is an unusual step for the AFL chief executive and an indication of the AFL's desire to protect the club from any financial fallout from the scandal.
Just another hint the AFL is very conscious of protecting the brand and an encouraging sign for the Bombers in my view.
 

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i would like to know if there are long term benefits to the players from allegedly taking what they are accused of.
if this is the case all teams would be pissed and they must be stripped of all benefits / awards they have achieved since taking them.
The players who have taken them must also be stood down for the 6 month period and they can top up from their seconds side and they also must loose their first 2 draft picks next year as well as a monetary fine.

This is not just about Essendon but sport in general around the world
 
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i would like to know if there are long term benefits to the players from allegedly taking what they are accused of.
if this is the case all teams would be pissed and they must be stripped of all benefits / awards they have achieved since taking them.
The players who have taken them must also be stood down for the 6 month period and they can top up from their seconds side and they also must loose their first 2 draft picks next year as well as a monetary fine.

This is not just about Essendon but sport in general around the world
It seems today's experts are of divided opinion http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/tea...sendon-took-them/story-e6frf9l6-1226634210537
 

FredLeDeux

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Nic Bideau, now there's a blast from the past! Must have become an "expert" in this field while quaffing a few ales down the pub and catching up with his old Hun cadet journo mates.
So, we have differing opinions from an infamously self-promoting journo-turned athletics coach, a former St Kilda doctor (with a well-publicised beef against sports scientists), and "one AFL sports science expert, speaking on condition of anonymity".


I think you were right to bold "experts", HTR.
I'd say Ralphy had trouble finding a story after spending too long down the pub with his old mate Nic.
 
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Nic Bideau, now there's a blast from the past! Must have become an "expert" in this field while quaffing a few ales down the pub and catching up with his old Hun cadet journo mates.
So, we have differing opinions from an infamously self-promoting journo-turned athletics coach, a former St Kilda doctor (with a well-publicised beef against sports scientists), and "one AFL sports science expert, speaking on condition of anonymity".


I think you were right to bold "experts" ''today's'', HTR.
I'd say Ralphy had trouble finding a story after spending too long down the pub with his old mate Nic.
Cathy sends her regards :D
 

topic97

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i would like to know if there are long term benefits to the players from allegedly taking what they are accused of.
if this is the case all teams would be pissed and they must be stripped of all benefits / awards they have achieved since taking them.
The players who have taken them must also be stood down for the 6 month period and they can top up from their seconds side and they also must loose their first 2 draft picks next year as well as a monetary fine.

This is not just about Essendon but sport in general around the world
Short answer - Yes.

Whilst im not sure what they took exactly(as most aren't), if what they took stimulated muscle growth, all they need to do is ensure nutrition is up to scratch, along with a good weight training regime, and they can maintain those gains for years to come.

Its a common misconception that if you are taking growth hormone, as soon as you stop you loose muscle which isnt the case.
Bodybuilders still need to ensure their nutrition is spot on otherwise any gains they make are very rapidly gone & whilst trying to gain muscle on growth hormone they usually go in injection cycles so they aren't on it full time anyway.

What Lance Armstrong was doing on the other hand was totally different.
He was essentially blood doping which whilst you are doing that it vastly improves the bloods capability to transfer oxygen around the body therefore making it a hell of a lot easier for you to cope & improve on the real strenuous cardio.

In that case, if they were on that sort of thing then no they may possibly have very small advantages if any at all.

But as far as I know theirs was more tipped towards growth hormone.
 
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Carlton have always been at the cutting edge on the moral and ethical issues and dilemmas facing clubs, players and officials.
One way or the other.
99% of the time, the other.
The irony of the Tankers being the ones effectively outing the Bombers' dishonest regime is just too good.

I can just imagine the indignation in the Blues camp..."Hey, nobody cheats better than us and gets away with it!":D
 
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The Bombers are up and going right now but that doesn't actually make 2013 greatly different to last year.

Remember 8-1?

I'm not convinced that they're going to be there at season's end yet.

They beat the Crows at home (whose exposed form for 2013 is no great shakes), belted the inept Dees, had a meritorious win in Perth against Freo (who are now just going), knocked off the Saints (who will only just contend for the eight) and brushed off the Pies on Anzac Day (who have been far from impressive for a couple of weeks).

Of these teams, I think the Pies and the Dockers will play finals in 2013. Maybe the Crows too, at a stretch.

We've actually played both last year's Grand Finallists already. They haven't come up against either of them yet.

Or us, for that matter.

From another angle, how many teams miss an eight-team finals series one year and win a flag the next?

And when was the last year the Bombers won any final (it was 2004), let alone three in one season?

I understand all the speculation about what will happen should they continue to be successful this season.

I just don't find myself believing that there's a great likelihood that the 2013 premiership race is going to end with the Bombers victorious on the big day. The exposed evidence of recent seasons just doesn't support that theory.

Still, if you introduce the illicit use of performance-enhancing drugs into the mix, who knows?:rolleyes:
 

bigfarter

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From another angle, how many teams miss an eight-team finals series one year and win a flag the next?
Us, in 2007.

I agree, however, that even if Essendon maintain their current form, they'd need to be spectacular to beat any of Hawthorn/Sydney/Collingwood/Geelong in a final, let alone two or three of those teams.
 

topic97

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Us, in 2007.

I agree, however, that even if Essendon maintain their current form, they'd need to be spectacular to beat any of Hawthorn/Sydney/Collingwood/Geelong in a final, let alone two or three of those teams.
True, but we also came within a kick of the grand final in 2004 & 2005 - so although we missed in 2006 because we imploded, the guys still had a bit of finals experience and wins, a bit different to an essendon side that hasnt won a final in nearly 10 seasons!

Ill never forget that 2004 final when a very very young side took it up to the Lions who were trying to assert their size & power on us and we didnt yield in the slightest - and the vision of chappy rolling over the boundary with a lions player(cant remember who) after a tackle & ramming him into the ground as if to say "bring it on".

Anyhoo, enough reminiscing from me.... :)
 
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