Geelong's record in finals under Chris Scott

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MisterMarcus

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Credit to Old Mate for actually showing his face again on this thread.

Every other Richmond fan who started a Concern Troll thread about Geelong has either done a runner or (intentionally?) got themselves suspended.
 

MC Extra Dollop

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Finals win loss is a ridiculous way to look at it. Brisbane (2-1) had a much better finals campaign than Collingwood (1-2) this year on that basis. Oh and Fremantle (1-1) were better than the Pies in September this year too, in case you didn't know. Fremantle beat a 12 win opponent at home and were then comprehensively dismantled by the Pies, while Collingwood lost by a fingernail against the two grand finalists and actually beat Fremantle, but facts are facts and one loss is better than two losses.

Interesting looking back at those odds and those results: I was pretty amazed it was under five goals against Melbourne in 2018 and sixish goals against Sydney, they both felt like 10-12 goal beltings at the time.

Total finals, grand finals and premierships are good for a bit of context and Chris Scott looks pretty decent over 12 years with those numbers (28/3/2). So that's Geelong playing 2-3 finals per year on average, making a grand final every four years, winning one every six. I'll take it.

I think the other thing about Chris Scott that gets underplayed is when situations like Mitch Robinson with Chris Fagan come out. Seems like that never happens at Geelong. There's been plenty of players who've been left out of grand final teams, been ushered out the door and some who clearly felt they still had a lot to offer, but I can't recall any who've publicly bashed him about it. Bomba seemed to be good at this too, leaving the 2010 season with Gary Ablett aside.
 
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Saint

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I will say conversion of GF appearances to flags hasn't been Cats strong suit but the ledger is gradually being restored
Including 89 it's 10 GF appearances for 4 flags
From 2007 it's 6 GF appearances for 4

While I'm not Hawks and Tigers greatest fan I do respect their ability to convert. When they make the GF, they generally win
These sample sizes are not enough to outweigh the other factors involved. (i.e. Hawks and tigers play all home finals at home, Geelong play nearly 0 finals at home).
 

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Fadge

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Finals win loss is a ridiculous way to look at it. Brisbane (2-1) had a much better finals campaign than Collingwood (1-2) this year on that basis. Oh and Fremantle (1-1) were better than the Pies in September this year too, in case you didn't know. Fremantle beat a 12 win opponent at home and were then comprehensively dismantled by the Pies, while Collingwood lost by a fingernail against the two grand finalists and actually beat Fremantle, but facts are facts and one loss is better than two losses.

Interesting looking back at those odds and those results: I was pretty amazed it was under five goals against Melbourne in 2018 and sixish goals against Sydney, they both felt like 10-12 goal beltings at the time.

Total finals, grand finals and premierships are good for a bit of context and Chris Scott looks pretty decent over 12 years with those numbers (28/3/2). So that's Geelong playing 2-3 finals per year on average, making a grand final every four years, winning one every six. I'll take it.

I think the other thing about Chris Scott that gets underplayed is when situations like Mitch Robinson with Chris Fagan come out. Seems like that never happens at Geelong. There's been plenty of players who've been left out of grand final teams, been ushered out the door and some who clearly felt they still had a lot to offer, but I can't recall any who've publicly bashed him about it. Bomba seemed to be good at this too, leaving the 2010 season with Gary Ablett aside.
No, No, No... you're getting it all wrong.

In the same way as we have to exclude 2011 from Chris Scott's finals record, just because, we now have to also exclude 2022. Just because.
 

Hoops

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13 wins, 15 losses at a win rate of 46%.

Still pales in comparison to his home and away win percentage, even after winning the flag this year, which happens to be 73%.

Mark Thompson, who is also a duel premiership coach, has a home and away win percentage of 62%, and a finals win percentage of 58%.

Who would be rated as a better coach out of Thompson and Scott?
Who had the better year Brisbane or Collingwood?
 

Goggin Our Best

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Sorry to say Fadge but Freo are better than Collingwood. Despite what we saw in the Semi Final.
No - cant agree with that - you are talking utter rubbish

I posted consistently during the lead up to all the finals - that i wanted Geel to play Syd - not Coll - and i was so glad that happened

There is what if moments in AFL football - Geel had Rich on toast in the 19PF - should have been 6 goals up at h/t - bar poor kicking - what would have been the reward - a certain Geel flag - getting GWS in the GF

And the same this year - that qual final - Coll led for what 95% - they win that - there would be a reasonable/good chance theyd be premiers - where as Freo are a million miles off it

Just like 2007 - that PF the Cats would have been desperately unlucky to lose - because they were in front most of the night - but if the Magpies had prevailed then it is a certain Coll flag

Some supporters can acknowledge that - others they are just so rapped up in their team they cant

Im delirious with joy because Geel have finally got what was proving a very elusive flag - however there is a very fine line between getting that flag and not - and the Magpies were a cigarette paper away from getting that flag this year
 

Fadge

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No - cant agree with that - you are talking utter rubbish

I posted consistently during the lead up to all the finals - that i wanted Geel to play Syd - not Coll - and i was so glad that happened

There is what if moments in AFL football - Geel had Rich on toast in the 19PF - should have been 6 goals up at h/t - bar poor kicking - what would have been the reward - a certain Geel flag - getting GWS in the GF

And the same this year - that qual final - Coll led for what 95% - they win that - there would be a reasonable/good chance theyd be premiers - where as Freo are a million miles off it

Just like 2007 - that PF the Cats would have been desperately unlucky to lose - because they were in front most of the night - but if the Magpies had prevailed then it is a certain Coll flag

Some supporters can acknowledge that - others they are just so rapped up in their team they cant

Im delirious with joy because Geel have finally got what was proving a very elusive flag - however there is a very fine line between getting that flag and not - and the Magpies were a cigarette paper away from getting that flag this year
Yeah, suspect we all agree with you, including Hoops
 

PhatBoy

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No - cant agree with that - you are talking utter rubbish

I posted consistently during the lead up to all the finals - that i wanted Geel to play Syd - not Coll - and i was so glad that happened

There is what if moments in AFL football - Geel had Rich on toast in the 19PF - should have been 6 goals up at h/t - bar poor kicking - what would have been the reward - a certain Geel flag - getting GWS in the GF

And the same this year - that qual final - Coll led for what 95% - they win that - there would be a reasonable/good chance theyd be premiers - where as Freo are a million miles off it

Just like 2007 - that PF the Cats would have been desperately unlucky to lose - because they were in front most of the night - but if the Magpies had prevailed then it is a certain Coll flag

Some supporters can acknowledge that - others they are just so rapped up in their team they cant

Im delirious with joy because Geel have finally got what was proving a very elusive flag - however there is a very fine line between getting that flag and not - and the Magpies were a cigarette paper away from getting that flag this year


He was being facetious mate.

Fremantle went 1-1 in finals this season for a percentage of 50.
Collingwood went 1-2 for a percentage of 33.

Ergo by the logic of some of the forum users on the dirt-diet, fremantle must be a better side than Collingwood because of their higher finals win percentage
 

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Power Play

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So you’d rather him have missed finals and not gotten double chances?

To say he’s coached poorly in finals actually takes away from very good sides like your own. Cats have won a quarter of the flags in the last 16, how many should have they won?
Where did I say he's coached poorly in finals? I merely quoted his win loss record, along with his finals win percentage and pointed out the fact it sits below 50%.

Gerard Whateley harps on about Scott's home and away win percentage, but he's very quiet when it comes to his finals win percentage.
No, No, No... you're getting it all wrong.

In the same way as we have to exclude 2011 from Chris Scott's finals record, just because, we now have to also exclude 2022. Just because.
Where have I excluded Chris Scott's 2011 finals series from his finals record? I'm on record as acknowledging the fact Chris Scott is a good coach by the way, it's just that Gerard Whateley tends to overrate him.
Who had the better year Brisbane or Collingwood?
They both finished as preliminary finalists, so at the end of the day, their seasons were on a par with one another.
 

Wojcinski

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Where did I say he's coached poorly in finals? I merely quoted his win loss record, along with his finals win percentage and pointed out the fact it sits below 50%.

Gerard Whateley harps on about Scott's home and away win percentage, but he's very quiet when it comes to his finals win percentage.

Where have I excluded Chris Scott's 2011 finals series from his finals record? I'm on record as acknowledging the fact Chris Scott is a good coach by the way, it's just that Gerard Whateley tends to overrate him.

They both finished as preliminary finalists, so at the end of the day, their seasons were on a par with one another.
why do you care so much about what Gerard Whateley thinks?
 

WillHayward

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From 12 months ago


IN: James Kelly, Eddie Betts
OUT: Corey Enright, Matthew Knights, Matthew Scarlett

The Cats have made significant changes after several key departures, with Enright (St Kilda) and Knights (West Coast) joining rival clubs, while Scarlett has taken a year away from the game. Kelly joins as an assistant coach, while Betts will start as a part-time development coach in January. Ball-movement coach Nigel Lappin remains in place, but there is work to do to fill the other roles around Chris Scott. Development coach Shaun Grigg could be elevated, while former Cat and ex-Melbourne and Essendon assistant Matthew Egan has been linked to the club.
 

DV2000

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13 wins, 15 losses at a win rate of 46%.

Still pales in comparison to his home and away win percentage, even after winning the flag this year, which happens to be 73%.

Mark Thompson, who is also a duel premiership coach, has a home and away win percentage of 62%, and a finals win percentage of 58%.

Who would be rated as a better coach out of Thompson and Scott?
Do you realise that only the top 8 teams each year play in finals? This means that on average, Geelong’s opponents in finals matches are significantly better than in home and away matches, and so it shouldn’t be surprising that our win percentage is lower in finals matches.
 

Fadge

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Do you realise that only the top 8 teams each year play in finals? This means that on average, Geelong’s opponents in finals matches are significantly better than in home and away matches, and so it shouldn’t be surprising that our win percentage is lower in finals matches.
If Chris Scott had a winning percentage of high 50's or low 60's over his 12 seasons, having finished top 4 in 8 of them, it means he'd have coached a handful of flags!

Whether the anti-Geelong posters like it or not, he's now coached 2 premierships from 8 top 4 finishes, which is right on par.
 

Fadge

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Where have I excluded Chris Scott's 2011 finals series from his finals record? I'm on record as acknowledging the fact Chris Scott is a good coach by the way, it's just that Gerard Whateley tends to overrate him.
You may not have excluded 2011 from Chris Scott's coaching cv, but many others on this site have.

The facts are that he took a team who had been in premiership contention for 4 years, and who were 10 goals down at half time in their last Preliminary Final before he took over, to remain perennial contenders for (at least) the next 12 seasons - 2 flags, 8 top 4 finishes, 11 finals series.

We haven't seen any other team in the modern era get anywhere near these consistently high levels of performance for anywhere near as long.

He's not just a 'good coach', he's a great coach, absolutely in the best handful of coaches we've seen since the turn of the century - comfortably in the same conversation as Roos, Malthouse and Hardwick. I'd only rate Matthews and Clarkson ahead of him, and Longmire slightly behind.
 
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Bunnings

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Where did I say he's coached poorly in finals? I merely quoted his win loss record, along with his finals win percentage and pointed out the fact it sits below

You said “underwhelming” so not “poor”, so yeah you got me there.
You can make the stats look good or bad for example Chris’s Scott has 3 more finals wins than Dimma in less seasons of coaching

Also if you win a flag 10 years apart that middle bit is called a rebuild
 
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PhatBoy

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You said “underwhelming” so not “poor”, so yeah you got me there.
You can make the stats look good or bad for example Chris’s Scott has 3 more finals wins than Dimma in less seasons of coaching

Also if you win a flag 10 years apart that middle bit is called a rebuild


Simple fact is that when MOST career coaches have a side rebuilding, they do no damage to their finals record because they aren’t playing them.

Chris Scott has done plenty of damage to his record because they keep making them even when they aren’t a realistic shot at winning the title
 

The Final Word

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As others have said, the makeup of the 8 and having the double chance leads to going 1-2 a common theme.

The idea is to get the cup or as close to it as possible. So it's a matter of how far you go, i.e. at what point did your season finish:

1. End of the season
2. Finals week 1
3. Finals week 2
4. Finals week 3
5. Runner up
6. Premier

Scott has coached 12 years for:

End of the season = 1 (2015)
Finals week 1 = 2 (2012, 2018)
Finals week 2 = 1 (2014)
Finals week 3 = 5 (2013, 2016, 2017, 2019, 2021)
Runner up = 1 (2020)
Premier = 2 (2011,2022)

I'd take that against just about anyone
 

Goggin Our Best

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From 12 months ago


IN: James Kelly, Eddie Betts
OUT: Corey Enright, Matthew Knights, Matthew Scarlett

Very true - but if you mention that on the Gee board l like i did on Monday - they will delete your post - like they did to mine

Geelongs game plan this year changed dramatically ( the slow motion failed chip it around suff got thrown out )- and there was more new faces re the assistant coaches - than just Kelly and Betts

So someone changed it - it would be interesting to know who -and whoever it was - they should get the majority of the credit
 

PhatBoy

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Very true - but if you mention that on the Gee board l like i did on Monday - they will delete your post - like they did to mine

Geelongs game plan this year changed dramatically ( the slow motion failed chip it around suff got thrown out )- and there was more new faces re the assistant coaches - than just Kelly and Betts

So someone changed it - it would be interesting to know who -and whoever it was - they should get the majority of the credit



….. but as long as it’s just the players saying that Scott has had a huge influence you’ll wait for someone else to say it?


Do you think Kelly and Betts just walked in and started rearranging furniture and saying ‘this is what you should be doing.’

It’s not going to physically kill people to just say ‘you know what? He did a good job.’

I don’t get why it’s so hard to do that. What do you think will happen if you praise him?
 

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