Geelongs salary cap - Does it need questioning?

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Sttew

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 28, 2006
20,041
17,514
Who's asking?
AFL Club
Geelong
Might get banned for this but whatever

For 20 years now, Geelong have had a unmatched ability to recruit and keep players. They are quite simply untouchable in this respect. Gary Ablett and his 2 mill aside, no one has ever been squeezed out of this club for salary cap reasons despite simply having the best list over this time period. All the while this has happened they have been able to still poach players at the same time, time and time again. Im pretty confident that if I market valued the current Geelong list, they should be about 30% over the cap

The question is. Do they have the greatest list management team in the country? or do we need to dig a bit more deeper below the surface?
Is that you Eddie?
 

jim boy

Umpires Association Head
Jun 4, 2002
13,431
5,569
Location!
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Gary Ablett and his 2 mill aside, no one has ever been squeezed out of this club for salary cap reasons despite simply having the best list over this time period.
You could make a case for Tim Kelly being squeezed out - much as wanted to we could not funnel any money to Kelly to help his unique situation and he had to make do on a draft salary. If we'd had the capacity, we would have paid for home help, parents coming over etc. Ultimately this led to an unhappy home life for his family and a strong wish to return to Perth.
 

The 747

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 19, 2008
16,575
19,233
Melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Ill do it shortly but do want 1 quick question

Patrick Dangerfields salary?

He would/should be on 950k
We are all still waiting for your list value breakdown.....don't tell us it is beyond your mathematic capacity OP....
 

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Mt Isa Mustang

Club Legend
Nov 23, 2019
2,093
2,293
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Middle Tier - 17 players

Taylor 500K
Blics 500K
Stewart 500K
Duncan 500K

Dahlhaus 500K
Steven 400K (half his contract or so being paid by Saints)
Guth 400K
Parfitt (new contract likely to be around 400K or so given his stellar year)
Ablett 400K
Menegola 300K
Tuohy 300K
Stanley 300K
Rohan 300K
Kolo 250K
Bews 250K
Henry 200K
O'Connor 200K
Miers 200K

Total = 6.4 MIL approx.
If these figures are near enough to correct, it is the. players in the middle tier where Geelong get their value.
These guys are all/mostly very good players.

The capacity to sign Duncan who would be a top 2-3 player on most teams in the league for 500k at the end of 2019 is amazing.
Tom Stewart re-signing halfway through an All Australian for 500k is also fantastic value.
Miers midway through his breakout 2019 seems a bargain at 200k

There is clearly inherent value with sticking at Geelong and partaking in success.
If these players were out on the open market though, they would all be receiving far far bigger offers.
 

LordLucifer

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 20, 2002
20,856
19,942
The North Shore Daaaahling !!
AFL Club
Carlton
Might get banned for this but whatever

For 20 years now, Geelong have had a unmatched ability to recruit and keep players. They are quite simply untouchable in this respect. Gary Ablett and his 2 mill aside, no one has ever been squeezed out of this club for salary cap reasons despite simply having the best list over this time period. All the while this has happened they have been able to still poach players at the same time, time and time again. Im pretty confident that if I market valued the current Geelong list, they should be about 30% over the cap

The question is. Do they have the greatest list management team in the country? or do we need to dig a bit more deeper below the surface?

On the surface, most opposition supporters would be questioning how the Cats do what they do and escape breaching the cap. I'd like to see them investigated too but I think that has more to do with my opposition jealousy than anything else.

I think it has a lot to do with what others in the thread have suggested. Yes, whoever is overseeing the list management contracts must be a very very sharp business person and uses every tool in their 'legal' kit-bag to make it all fit in.

Players do want to be well remunerated but will take slightly less on the promise of onfield success. If Player A could earn say ..... $950K PA somewhere else but is happy to take $800K to keep everyone together, he is hardly going to be dining out at the local soup kitchen or taking handouts from the Salvos.

I'm not a fan of it but we now have front-loading & back-loading of contracts which also brings forward or defers payments subject to how the books looks each year. This is nothing more than creative accounting, it's legal and provides avenues to fit everyone in.
 

2006_Eagles

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 6, 2015
23,590
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Ill do it shortly but do want 1 quick question

Patrick Dangerfields salary?

He would/should be on 950k
He's on less than Selwood apparently
 

Footy_Fan2007

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 20, 2008
6,690
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How many of their list are either returning home (specifically to Geelong) or were on the outer when recruited?

I can't think of players other than Dangerfield and Ablett whose club actually wanted them to stay when Geelong got them.

Henderson, Steven, Rohan, Dahlhaus all were traded/given away for not much and wouldn't be on big contracts. Tuohy was probably in a similar boat, wanted out of Carlton at the time.

Motlop, McCarthy, Caddy and some others (many delisted and picked up elsewhere) also left the club including Tim Kelly who's probably on more than anyone at Geelong other than Dangerfield. Hawkins and Selwood have probably never really tested their value as they're home grown and still chasing cups.

Don't forget, Dangerfield went to Geelong for success and to live in Moggs Creek. Both of which tend to make me think he's probably taking unders in terms of payments. Doesn't cost a lot for property in Moggs Creek.
Any property along the great ocean road costs a lot......
 

ashep

Premiership Player
Jun 15, 2014
3,297
6,303
AFL Club
Sydney
I think its less question about Geelong - I'm sure they're operating within the cap - but more about questioning the system itself that allows a powerhouse like Geelong to continually retain, and top up their list with AA players, Coleman and Brownlow medallists.

How are minnow clubs like Carlton, North or Essendon supposed to compete?
 

CharacterFirst

Premiership Player
Feb 25, 2011
4,677
4,260
A wilful, lavish land.
AFL Club
Geelong
Another factor for Geelong players is lifetime perks around the Western District region.

There would be all sorts of little discounts available to star Geelong players.

Free fish and chips at the local.

Beers on the house.

Property discounts b/c of who you know.

The very best deal on clothes from Cotton:On.

"Test driving" free Ford cars.

Easy jobs for life.

The list would be endless.
 

nineteen eighty

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 18, 2003
6,132
5,829
Sydney
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Richmond
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TIGERS
Might get banned for this but whatever

For 20 years now, Geelong have had a unmatched ability to recruit and keep players. They are quite simply untouchable in this respect. Gary Ablett and his 2 mill aside, no one has ever been squeezed out of this club for salary cap reasons despite simply having the best list over this time period. All the while this has happened they have been able to still poach players at the same time, time and time again. Im pretty confident that if I market valued the current Geelong list, they should be about 30% over the cap

The question is. Do they have the greatest list management team in the country? or do we need to dig a bit more deeper below the surface?
COLA...living in Geelong.
 

nineteen eighty

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 18, 2003
6,132
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That post is an excellent summation. Its all in the front loading, backloading, discounts, incentives, over loading, underloading, etc.

Give me 3 hours with an excel spreadsheet and a calculator and I could put together a list management strategy and budget if I knew all the rules and caps I had to play with and their salary expectations.
You mean 6 hours...3 for the legit and another 3 that cooks the books.

Also (and this isn't a Geelong thing...happens everywhere), how many ex players or their partners end up working at a sponsors / chairman's company?
 
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ash_1050

Premiership Player
Nov 21, 2009
3,086
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Essendon
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As others have touched on I think most Geelong players would be paid a touch under what they'd get elsewhere, but the trade off is ongoing club success. Would you rather take $500k a year at the Cats or $600k a year to go to North or Adelaide? Good team culture, on-field success and (presumably) knowing your teammates are making the same sacrifice of slightly better money elsewhere is what allows Geelong to field a decent team.

But yeah, it must be salary cap rorting because OP can't comprehend money isn't the be all and end all for work.
 

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The 747

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 19, 2008
16,575
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Melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
You mean 6 hours...3 for the legit and another 3 that cooks the books.

Also (and this isn't a Geelong thing...happens everywhere), how many ex players or their partners end up working at a sponsors / chairman's company?
Happens everywhere, it is amusing to see supporters from other clubs lately trying to have a crack at Geelong for it. I even saw a Carlton supporter complaining about Geelong's 'dodgy deals'.
 

Obeanie1

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 26, 2007
22,356
17,040
Darwin
AFL Club
West Coast
Probably. I know West Coast have not and would never do anything like that.

Still waiting for the OP to provide us a 'forensic' value breakdown of our list. They did promise to do this, so we are all waiting.
Eagles are far more advanced mate.....they use bitcoin, very hard to trace! ;) :thumbsu:
 

Millky95

Starchild > You
Jul 6, 2014
34,082
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Renegades
It helps that anyone born from Geelong and further West all the way to the border wants to go back to Geelong, get a nice house along the surf coast and be left alone to play their footy. That, plus the fact it’s a very well run and successful club, draws players there and they will take unders to do so.
Came here to post something similar. Geelong has a lot of the perks of playing for a non-Vic club with a lot less of the draw backs (particularly if you are from Victoria). Plus being a well run club with a lot of finals in recent years, you could easily see players happy to take that slightly smaller pay for those benefits

And kudos to Geelong. They have managed to stay very competitive for a long time
 

eastfreo75

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 11, 2011
9,937
8,754
pakenham
AFL Club
Fremantle
For the integrity of the competition, salaries should be made public just like the NBA.

NBA have less ability to rort the cap, yet they publish the contracts.

We have all heard stories of rorting from most clubs.
 

iameviljez

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 20, 2004
13,287
14,463
Brisbane
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Pompey
Nah it’s all good. They all accept unders for the love of the club.
There are various stories of Young Player X or Y having salary negotiations with Cook and the like, and one of the senior club legends being called into the office and asked what they get paid per year. The player is then left a bit dumbfounded at the fact that they are asking for more ca$h than Enright/Corey/Bartel etc.
 

Upgrayedd

A Vote for Clive is a Vote for Justice
Aug 11, 2006
31,524
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Perth
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For the integrity of the competition, salaries should be made public just like the NBA.

NBA have less ability to rort the cap, yet they publish the contracts.

We have all heard stories of rorting from most clubs.
Thats because the NBA don't have hard caps like the AFL does silly.
 

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