Geelongs salary cap - Does it need questioning?

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ThePhreshOne said:
I don't think Geelongs salary cap needs questioning at all.

I think Free Agency maybe needs to be addressed. You can't have free agents just going to strong clubs, I think even Geelong fans can agree that's not in the best interest of the competition but that should not be a reflection of their amazing ability to maintain a healthy list for so very long.
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I agree, I don't like it, but you have to play the hand you are dealt.

As a fan, I think it's a shame. I really loved following players from the very start of their career as they blossomed into great footballers. While I'm still delighted with the likes of Dalhaus and Rohan when they play well, it's not the same sense of "our boys" that I got with Chapman, Bartel, Ling and the like. And yeah, I don't think it's great that sides who have already won flags can effectively skim the cream off the competition to win multiples.
 

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nerRADIAN said:
1 flag in the last 10 years isn't selling the idea of success. I dont think they've had any big name recruits apart from Danger, but that was for the go home factor. Cameron would be their biggest get. The rest of their recruits were older players pushed out by their previous clubs like Touhy, Stanley, Rohan, Stevens, Jenkins etc.
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11 preliminary finals in the past 14 years is a *in good effort. Being consistent and at the top for a long period of time is successful.
 
Does Hawkins accept a big pay cut?

Surely Collingwood would offer him 2 x $800k. Dogs and Saints also probably. And Melbourne. Swans. Adelaide too.

Coleman medallist accepting a big pay cut seems like its not an automatic thing.

As for some of the numbers Cats players are meant to be earning... just silly. I thought it was well known that they werent paying massive amounts to anyone.

Hawks had the same claims. While also being called a terrible list.

I wonder how many Cats supporters in here are guilty of this.
 
smasha said:
Scary quick how Geelong get their targets,when Richmond chase someone,it sets off the hashtag and then every drover’s dog wants him.

Geelong seem to be sneaking players into their club very quickly.
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Your tigers are Similar to Geelongs list Also....

Dustin Martin, Trent Cotchin and Jack Riewoldt are the big 3 on $800,000 a year. Dusty would be on 1 million easily.

Then you got the other blokes. Grimes, Astbury, Houli, Caddy, Prestia, Lambert etc on $500-$600,000 a year.
 
HairyO said:
Does Hawkins accept a big pay cut?

Surely Collingwood would offer him 2 x $800k. Dogs and Saints also probably. And Melbourne. Swans. Adelaide too.

Coleman medallist accepting a big pay cut seems like its not an automatic thing.

As for some of the numbers Cats players are meant to be earning... just silly. I thought it was well known that they werent paying massive amounts to anyone.

Hawks had the same claims. While also being called a terrible list.

I wonder how many Cats supporters in here are guilty of this.
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For a Coleman medallist who’s dad played for the club for nearly 200 games and who’s been there since he was 17 or 18 it would be easier. Yes you could point to Ablett and his departure but Hawkins isn’t going to get offered the same sort of money and he was halfway through his career at the time
 
GoEaglesGoSGIO

I've made some adjustments

Rhys Stanley - 400k
Zac Tuohy - 600k 400k
Brandan Parfitt - 300k
Gary Ablett - 300k
Naika Cockatoo - 100k
Jordan Clark - 100k
Harry Taylor - 600k (forever backended contract catching up)
Jake Kolodhasnij - 300k
Jack Steven - 500k
Ben Jarvis - 75k
Josh Jenkins - 200k
Cooper Stephens - 75k
Lachoe Fogarty - 100k
Joel Selwood - 800k (forever backended contract catching up)
Nathan Kreuger - 75k
Sam De Koning - 75k
Esavara Ratugolea - 300k
Charlie Constable - 100k
Quinton Narkle - 100k
Jacob Kennerly - 100k
Mitch Duncan - 800k 600k
Gary Rohan - 500k 300k
Jed Bews - 200k
Tom Hawkins - 800k
Sam Menegola - 500k
Darcy Fort - 100k
Cameron Guthrie - 400k
Francis Evans - 75k
Gryan Miers - 400k 200k
Jake Tarca - 75k
James Parsons - 100k
Patrick Dangerfield - 1 mill 800k
Sam Simpson - 100k
Jack Henry - 200k
Zac Gutrhie - 100k
Luke Dalhaus - 600k 400k
Cameron Taheny - 75k
Mark O'Connor - 300k 100k
Tom Stewart - 800k 400k
Mark Bilcavs - 800k 400k

You have to remember that we had $800k set aisde for Tim Kelly that we didn't spend. By my count we're at $13.5m - $2.2m = $11m
 
PhatBoy said:
Aside from Boak, who have we gone after that we missed out on? There’s been a few players linked to us but few who we have actively chased hard.

Sorry but a player who wants to go to a successful club isn’t going to look at, say, the Bulldogs, or Hawthorn, and go ‘well they’ve won flags more recently than the cats, that cancels out that the cats are making top four every year.’
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I would say the Hawks have sold the idea of success more in the same period. What big name players went to Geelong for success? They've been good at recruiting solid role players but they weren't exactly hot property in the trade market. This isn't a bad thing as selling the idea of success isn't sustainable.
 
PhatBoy said:
Aside from Boak, who have we gone after that we missed out on? There’s been a few players linked to us but few who we have actively chased hard.

Sorry but a player who wants to go to a successful club isn’t going to look at, say, the Bulldogs, or Hawthorn, and go ‘well they’ve won flags more recently than the cats, that cancels out that the cats are making top four every year.’
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off the top of my head

Boak
Taylor Adams
James Frawley
Deledio
Stringer
Watts
Devon Smith

Not sure how many of these were the player knocking us back or the clubs knocking back our offer but we've definitely missed out a fair bit (also dodged a few bullets too)
 
Wojcinski said:
off the top of my head

Boak
Taylor Adams
James Frawley
Deledio
Stringer
Watts
Devon Smith

Not sure how many of these were the player knocking us back or the clubs knocking back our offer but we've definitely missed out a fair bit (also dodged a few bullets too)
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Someone suggested earlier in the thread that we went hard at Frawley - I don't recall any of the others being huge targets. More 'Geelong has also expressed an interest'

Deledio would have been the main one off that list that we actively pursued. (Boak I've already acknowledged)
 

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HairyO said:
Does Hawkins accept a big pay cut?

Surely Collingwood would offer him 2 x $800k. Dogs and Saints also probably. And Melbourne. Swans. Adelaide too.

Coleman medallist accepting a big pay cut seems like its not an automatic thing.

As for some of the numbers Cats players are meant to be earning... just silly. I thought it was well known that they werent paying massive amounts to anyone.

Hawks had the same claims. While also being called a terrible list.

I wonder how many Cats supporters in here are guilty of this.
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Dont worry. Cats supporters never rated your talent. We have zero belief that you would be cheating the salary cap.
 
Handy tip - How you rate a player, or what they've achieved in their career, or what you think they're worth, isn't commensurate to what they're actually earning.

How do I know this? Because none of us have access to confirmed, accurate contract values, either year-on-year or total values.
 
Desslok said:
I'm pretty sure Shane Mumford was squeezed out...
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He was also 23 years old on the Rookie List, wasn't the Cats' #1 ruckman at the time (he was behind Mark Blake, and only played as much as he did in 2009 because Brad Ottens was injured, and was out of the side for the 2009 finals series once Ottens came back), and got far more opportunity and (assumedly) money and security at Sydney.
 
JohnZ said:
GoEaglesGoSGIO

I've made some adjustments

Rhys Stanley - 400k
Zac Tuohy - 600k 400k
Brandan Parfitt - 300k
Gary Ablett - 300k
Naika Cockatoo - 100k
Jordan Clark - 100k
Harry Taylor - 600k (forever backended contract catching up)
Jake Kolodhasnij - 300k
Jack Steven - 500k
Ben Jarvis - 75k
Josh Jenkins - 200k
Cooper Stephens - 75k
Lachoe Fogarty - 100k
Joel Selwood - 800k (forever backended contract catching up)
Nathan Kreuger - 75k
Sam De Koning - 75k
Esavara Ratugolea - 300k
Charlie Constable - 100k
Quinton Narkle - 100k
Jacob Kennerly - 100k
Mitch Duncan - 800k 600k
Gary Rohan - 500k 300k
Jed Bews - 200k
Tom Hawkins - 800k
Sam Menegola - 500k
Darcy Fort - 100k
Cameron Guthrie - 400k
Francis Evans - 75k
Gryan Miers - 400k 200k
Jake Tarca - 75k
James Parsons - 100k
Patrick Dangerfield - 1 mill 800k
Sam Simpson - 100k
Jack Henry - 200k
Zac Gutrhie - 100k
Luke Dalhaus - 600k 400k
Cameron Taheny - 75k
Mark O'Connor - 300k 100k
Tom Stewart - 800k 400k
Mark Bilcavs - 800k 400k

You have to remember that we had $800k set aisde for Tim Kelly that we didn't spend. By my count we're at $13.5m - $2.2m = $11m
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Guys like Narkle, Constable and Simpson would not have signed their second contract at $100k unless their manager is rubbish.
 
I am all about throwing the tinfoil hat on for salary cap discussions, but while I think there obviously would be all types of Frank Costa side deal shenanigans like there is at all clubs, I don't see it as particularly surprising that Geelong's list still has space within the official cap.

Which is a backhanded way of saying, I don't rate their overall list all that highly. A lot of their star players are old and they are getting good service out of guys who wouldn't be worth a whole lot on the open market.

Contending lists get a honeymoon period with older players. They can't get nearly as much as they did on the open market as they did in their prime and they don't want to leave a contending side anyway. So they get paid significantly less than their actual output on the field would suggest.

It's teams that can constantly re-sign their own star players and sign star players from other clubs who are coming out of contract in that 24-28 age range who raise eyebrows, because that's when the players have the most leverage.
 
Sirlemsip said:
I'm Surprised that I'm jumping in to defend Geelong of all clubs, but the same false accusations have been made at Hawthorn over the 3-peat years and really unless you have confirmation of what each player is earning it is just an empty claim.

Just like with the Hawks over our successful years, it is relatively well known that some of the top players (Hodge, Mitchell, Roughead = Danger, Selwood, Hawkins) have signed on for less than they may be able to get on the 'open market' due to a combination of love for the club and a desire for success.

Please do let us know what you 'value' each of their current players so you can support your '130%' claim.
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If history teaches us anything...

A) there is always contemporary grizzling met with staunch denials

B) 10 years down the track there is puzzled triangulating and asking of the question..... met by indignant denials and challenges to pony up with evidence

C) 25 years after a flag a greying retiree comes clean on under the table payments, false addresses on recruiting forms, promises of "unrelated" employment for players after their playing days, undeclared corporate promotion work hinging on signing with a particular club etc etc etc. By which time the responses are "everyone was doing it" "its water under the bridge now" and my favourite "what are you going to do, take away ALL the dodgy flags?"
 
Geelong are not only cheating the salary cap, they have a home ground as well. Fooking disgraceful having all those benefits, obvious bias by the AFL because of Steve Hocking.:)
Just bad luck for all the other teams who whinge and bitch about the cats being successful
 
Linda Lovelace said:
Which is a backhanded way of saying, I don't rate their overall list all that highly.
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I think that's a little harsh, but I think you are onto something.

When you look at our Best 22/25, we basically have no one in that 24-28 age bracket. We're playing about 6 kids under 22, and then the vast majority is 28+

So when it comes to our salary cap, we'll have a few on $800k that have earned it (Danger, Selwood and Hawk), then the remaining 28+ will be on $400k with some on $600k (Duncan, maybe C Guthrie). Our guys under 22 will all be on $100k/$200k depending on when they've resigned. That's how we've fit it all into our cap, we don't have 26yos on $800k who could've got that on the open market.
 
1990crow said:
Zac Tuohy got given a house outside salary cap to join Geelong. He told this to his next door neighbour who is my cousin.
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Right!!!! And who gave him this house?

LOL
 
JohnZ said:
GoEaglesGoSGIO

I've made some adjustments

Rhys Stanley - 400k
Zac Tuohy - 600k 400k
Brandan Parfitt - 300k
Gary Ablett - 300k
Naika Cockatoo - 100k
Jordan Clark - 100k
Harry Taylor - 600k (forever backended contract catching up)
Jake Kolodhasnij - 300k
Jack Steven - 500k
Ben Jarvis - 75k
Josh Jenkins - 200k
Cooper Stephens - 75k
Lachoe Fogarty - 100k
Joel Selwood - 800k (forever backended contract catching up)
Nathan Kreuger - 75k
Sam De Koning - 75k
Esavara Ratugolea - 300k
Charlie Constable - 100k
Quinton Narkle - 100k
Jacob Kennerly - 100k
Mitch Duncan - 800k 600k
Gary Rohan - 500k 300k
Jed Bews - 200k
Tom Hawkins - 800k
Sam Menegola - 500k
Darcy Fort - 100k
Cameron Guthrie - 400k
Francis Evans - 75k
Gryan Miers - 400k 200k
Jake Tarca - 75k
James Parsons - 100k
Patrick Dangerfield - 1 mill 800k
Sam Simpson - 100k
Jack Henry - 200k
Zac Gutrhie - 100k
Luke Dalhaus - 600k 400k
Cameron Taheny - 75k
Mark O'Connor - 300k 100k
Tom Stewart - 800k 400k
Mark Bilcavs - 800k 400k

You have to remember that we had $800k set aisde for Tim Kelly that we didn't spend. By my count we're at $13.5m - $2.2m = $11m
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Looks like we've got a different scandal then because the salary floor is $12.3m :p
 
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