No Opposition Supporters General AFL and other clubs discussion thread. **Opposition fans not welcome** Part 3

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cryptor

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I genuinely believe that a lot of the booing (from Hawthorn supporters) did stem from Goodes sliding into Gibson.

The continued booing over the longer term I think was due to the media making a huge deal out of it and telling the public that they shouldn't be allowed to do it. Turns out people don't like being told that they can't do something like that.

I booed Goodes at the time he slid into Gibson - it was a shit act late in the season before finals, on one of our most important and beloved players. I however didn't continue to boo him in any subsequent games though. Because when the media narrative became "the booing of Goodes is driven by racism" then you have to realise that regardless of whether or not it actually was, and whether or not it was for you, it's going to look like you're supporting that view by doing it.

Now I'm a big supporter of freedom of speech and expression, and I find the whole PC-culture thing quite often gets ridiculous. But sometimes you need to pick your battles. Your right to boo a particular bloke every time he gets the ball in a game regardless of what he's done in that or previous games needs to be weighed up against the chances that people around you think you're a racist. Or that Goodes and other Aboriginal people watching might genuinely believe that the booing is about race and that it might actually be having an impact on his/their mental health.

So my stance had been "If you feel compelled to join in the booing for what you honestly believe to be non-race motivated reason then that's your prerogative. Just don't act surprised when people think you're supporting racism."
 

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Agreed, and the flipside to this is that people who claim that the booing of Goodes had “nothing to do with race”(another generalisation) are blatantly wrong.
You know, I made that point. I speak for myself, not everyone else. The comment was in relation to a comment from Whatley that the booing of Goodes was started by Hawthorn supporters. Now, that day, nobody was booing Goodes until that incident with Josh Gibson. It was a dog act and deserved derision from Hawks supporters. My belief that day is racism was not the cause of the booing. It would have occurred no matter who the Swans player was. That was what I was making reference to. Why supporters of other clubs chose to boo Goodes after that, I cannot speak for them.

The bottom line is, I don't need to justify myself to you, or anybody else. I have my own feelings on racism and don't feel I need to rubbish other peoples' opinions just so I can feel good about myself. And I certainly don't need to tell others they are wrong, simply because their opinion may differ from my own.
 

Thaihawk

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Like when Ian Roberts did it. In the 90s. Nobody booed him. I am sure the odd dickhead yelled at him. No player would have been stupid enough to sledge him because Ian Roberts already hit like a sledgehammer - so trying to rile him up would have done you no favours.
Can only vaguely remember that Ned, getting too old.
 

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Agreed, and the flipside to this is that people who claim that the booing of Goodes had “nothing to do with race”(another generalisation) are blatantly wrong.

That’s the point I am making.

We had threads here where plenty of posters wanted to get stuck into Goodes for daring to suggest that the genocide of Aborignals at the hands of our pioneers was something that he struggled with(and condemned).
I wonder if a vote were taken what the outcome would be. I hope it doesn't come to this, but the way the media revisits anything that makes us look look on the dark side the better they like themselves.
 

Xtreme

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Goodes got boo’d for the same reason we boo Duckwood - they are both campaigners.

Any suggestion to the contrary is nothing more than popularist propaganda.

My opinion of AG has not changed because of that interview.
I've spoken as to why I booed and continued to boo after. I loved Sydney and was happy for their 2005 flag, Goodes was a player I liked to see play. My dislike started in 2007 - both club and player, I noticed Goodes' not playing as fair as you'd expect. And he was still being favoured by the umpires.

Add in the cheap shots over the years he just became my least favorite player of the Swans - he was still good despite slowing with injury and age, he didn't need to slide into players or punch them behind play. Still lol at him trying to hit Bruest!!

I still booed after the scandal in part because the AFL (HI GILL!!) begged for it to be stopped. You can't tell us what to do!

I boo the villain AFL characters because I can. Selwood gets booed regularly!
 

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upload_2018-8-3_13-26-48.png



FLOG!

Adam is also a lovely guy, & I admire him for his wonderful career & stance against racism (albeit I thought there were better ways to deal with the issue & get just as some respect & impact) - he also played very well against us - the 12 GF anyone? it annoyed me.... this issue with Goodes has many layers. But the images above is why hawthorn suporters started booing him - not some racist angle that Whateley believes.
 

Off The Couch

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I wonder if a vote were taken what the outcome would be. I hope it doesn't come to this, but the way the media revisits anything that makes us look look on the dark side the better they like themselves.
The amusing thing is that Adam Goodes had this conversation on a show on the ABC called Anh’s Brush with Fame and then the footy media have captured that small portion of the show where he spoke about his time in footy, run with it and that’s opened up the “conversation” around this period all over again. It seems that Goodes will only have peace if he never speaks of that moment in time again.
 

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The amusing thing is that Adam Goodes had this conversation on a show on the ABC called Anh’s Brush with Fame and then the footy media have captured that small portion of the show where he spoke about his time in footy, run with it and that’s opened up the “conversation” around this period all over again. It seems that Goodes will only have peace if he never speaks of that moment in time again.
media loves a good button pushing story, look at all the discussion around African gangs in Melbourne, the way it's portrayed in the media the only crime or organised crime committed in this city is by teenagers from Africa

Never mind the fact that most violent acts in Melbourne are drunk white guys, it's those Africans we let into the country

And this hate is spewed on radio, tv, in the papers, online, by the Liberal party because they aren't in government and hard on crime always polls well etc

So what chance has Goodes got? Shit he goes on Play School and reads a children's story and the hornets nest gets kicked again
 

Davo23

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View attachment 536320 Robbo pathetic body language with the great Sam Mitchell on 360
Unprofessional but that surprises no one

The body language is Robbo being intimidated.
Robbo (and the whole of Essendon) have hated Sam Mitchell since his famous "jab" jibe.

And Sam is not even slightly intimidated by the slurring, stuttering imbecile!
 

SarahSmiles

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One shudders to think what the reaction would be like if the gay players ever decide to come out.
It's scary that it's still so hostile in the world of sport in 2018. No wonder none of the gay players are coming out. It's terrible and we need to work on breaking down these barriers as fans.
 

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Ned Ryerson

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It's scary that it's still so hostile in the world of sport in 2018. No wonder none of the gay players are coming out. It's terrible and we need to work on breaking down these barriers as fans.
Which is why Roberts' decision was so bloody brave - it was 1996 and the world wasn't nearly as accepting then as it is now. Took a hell of a lot of courage to do what he did.
 

cryptor

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One shudders to think what the reaction would be like if the gay players ever decide to come out.
It's scary that it's still so hostile in the world of sport in 2018. No wonder none of the gay players are coming out. It's terrible and we need to work on breaking down these barriers as fans.
I reckon it'd go the other way. Who ever comes out first will be lifted onto the collective media's shoulders and carried around as a hero. Anyone in the media or within clubs who says or does anything negative in relation to it will be torched by the media - particularly the social media. There will still be the odd dickhead in the crowd who will take the opportunity to yell out something homophobic, but that type of person is going to say bigoted shit regardless.

I suspect the reason no player has come out publicly yet is because they don't want to be in the spotlight over it. They'd want to be remembered for their footy, and not their sexuality. And it's also completely irrelevant to their football - or in other words; it's no one else's business.
 

Brishawk

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Reject that fully on the part of Hill, Rioli and Burgoyne.

My comment is a reference to what the Collingwood president said about Nicky winmar after he pointed to his skin. To quote: 'As long as they [Aborigines] conduct themselves like white people, well, off the field, everyone will admire and respect them’

On this very board Booing of Goodes was rationalised because he pointed to someone who racially vilified him, did a spear throw and because of what he said on Australia Day (other reason too but these were the obliquely racially relevant ones).

The booing of Goodes was incredibly nasty no matter what the reason. The second his name is mentioned a bunch of people jump on here to tell you what a shit bloke he is and that it wasn’t racist booing. What they are doing is trying to justify being nasty by making Goodes out to be some unprecedenced level of monster that deserved it, racism or no racism. No one deserves that treatment. And justifying it says a lot about the people doing it and nothing about Goodes. And that’s my point. The discussions on here are a continuation of the need of people to justify their own behaviour and nothing to do with Goodes. So please stop bringing Goodes into it. Practice self reflection. And if you need help, ask for it or seek professional help. Just leave Goodes out of it because he isn’t the problem.
 

A Cut Above

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Change the subject. Everything's been said about Adam Goodes already, there's nothing to be gained going back over old ground.



....in other news, the AFL clearly has very little idea WTF they're doing. :rolleyes:

https://myaccount.news.com.au/sites...2363354bb8b95378-1533271180&memtype=anonymous
THE AFL will ask senior coaches to save the game from ugly football with a landmark Spirit of the Game agreement.

The league will on Saturday trial an 18m goalsquare and 6-6-6 starting points after goals at a VFL game between Coburg and Werribee.

It seems increasingly likely those two rule changes will be the centrepiece of next year’s changes rather than starting points at every stoppage.

But the league concedes it cannot ease the huge packs of players following the ball without senior coaches getting on board.

AFL football boss Steve Hocking told a Fox Footy briefing it was up to senior coaches to help spread out players across the field.

A new Spirit of the Game agreement will be a groundbreaking document that also covers player behaviour and conduct.

It believes it can “take the game to the next level” and also incorporate umpires, the media and fans.

At the heart of the document will be a gentlemen’s agreement not to pack defensive 50 stoppages with up to 30 players in ugly packs.

The league believes those stoppages, as teams heavily press up the ground, are at the heart of much of the low scoring at the heart of the game’s issues.

Already in the past six weeks of football more coaches have kept their forwards deeper, which has resulted in more free-flowing football.

TINKERING: THE SIX RULES THAT MIGHT BE CHANGED

Hocking said on Friday he was confident coaches would be keen to help improve the spectacle of the game.

Some conceded they couldn’t be trusted not to press hard up the ground but the league has months to work through the details of the document.

“They have at least welcomed the conversation. They get they have a role to play in taking car of the game. I am not sure that’s been asked of them before,” Hocking said.

“We have spoken to the coaches and there is an appetite to help us out with this.”

Hocking said of the congestion that clogs the game at defensive 50 stoppages: “This has to be fixed by coaches. This is the scourge of the game in D50.”

The AFL believes an expanded goalsquare, which Dustin Fletcher told the Herald Sun this year could help clear congestion, is a winner.

The AFL’s game analysis committee has trialled an expanded goalsquare in three 20-minute games, but felt the results were “just exceptional” in last week’s St Kilda trial.

It will allow big-bombing defenders like Zach Tuohy to reach the centre of the ground, where the ground is wider and less congested.

AFL research shows this year a team is twice as likely to score by defending a kick-in than spiriting it from end to end.

The 6-6-6 trial means six players must start in each 50m arc, with the wingmen only allowed to start on the side of the centre square.

It creates what game analysis guru David Rath calls “volatile space”, where the unpredictable and brilliant can occur with room to breathe.

The starting point trials at every stoppage saw some teams take as many as 28 seconds to return to their sector of the ground.

The AFL hasn’t ruled out its introduction at some stage but 6-6-6 and the 18m goalsquare seem more likely for 2019.

AFL game analysis official James Podsiadly said on Friday at the very least 6-6-6 would provide several minutes after each goal where the game is spread out.

What the AFL hopes is that in marriage with other rules and alterations the game can again be more unpredictable and allow the stars to shine.
 

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https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sp...s/news-story/162cd69f17eceb9f149c728df46df728

Do I win?


And to be clear to the rhetorically challenged, I’m not saying racism is OK. I’m not saying racism doesn’t exist. I’m saying racism wasn’t the motive.

Footy fans are classless a$$holes at the game and whatever edge might make a player crack, from booing at Goodes to screaming “Lock the rapist up!” at Milne, the footy supporter will use it.

You’re all trying to indict Australian society as some sort of racist hellhole and you’re completely wrong. And utterly self-unaware. Footy supporters at the ground are complete dickheads. They walk away from the ground and they are back to normal good people. Your efforts to tar society with a broad brush based on boorish behaviour commonly celebrated in society at large on these boards specifically is misplaced. And we’ll off target.

You want to stop boorish behaviour at games? Stop behaving like a boor here.
The booing had started in may more than two months before that article. It was already at disgusting levels long before goodes’ admission.
 

Brishawk

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Change the subject. Everything's been said about Adam Goodes already, there's nothing to be gained going back over old ground.



....in other news, the AFL clearly has very little idea WTF they're doing. :rolleyes:

https://myaccount.news.com.au/sites...2363354bb8b95378-1533271180&memtype=anonymous
That is hilarious. This is so transparently motivated by commercial interests, namely television. Obviously getting a heap of pressure to fix the product so the ratings improve.
 

Hong Kong Hawk

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Like when Ian Roberts did it. In the 90s. Nobody booed him. I am sure the odd dickhead yelled at him. No player would have been stupid enough to sledge him because Ian Roberts already hit like a sledgehammer - so trying to rile him up would have done you no favours.
True story, Ian Roberts was walking down Oxford St one night with his partner. A car full of idiots yelled abuse at him for being gay. The car stopped at the next red light, and Roberts had chased it. He pulled the passenger out, and gave him a decent whalloping. He then pushed him back in the car and said “go home and tell your mates you just got beaten up by a Poofter”
 

Rioli magic

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“The AFL believes an expanded goalsquare, which Dustin Fletcher told the Herald Sun this year could help clear congestion, is a winner.”

I wasn’t sure where these crazy rules were heading, but luckily Dustin Fletcher told the Herald Sun he thinks it could help. Crisis averted!

Thanks Herald Sun and thanks Dustin.
 

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That is hilarious. This is so transparently motivated by commercial interests, namely television. Obviously getting a heap of pressure to fix the product so the ratings improve.
Its actually two separate problems they have - poor ratings AND lack of goals which means fewer ad breaks. They feel by increasing scoring they can bring the ratings back, and it certainly can't hurt.

You're right everything's being driven by the networks, handing over $1.25bn means they decide how the "sport" is run. Wouldn't surprise me if ad revenue is down massively on past years & they've threatened the AFL with legal action if the trend isn't reversed next season. Would certainly explain the AFL being in such an obvious blind panic that they even considered trialing new rules in the current season.
 

Simon_Nesbit

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In my mind, the cause of Goodes being booed was his actions on field, magnified by the blatant favouritism he received from umpires and MRP and subsequently blown out of all proportion by the media reporting of the issue. The percentage of racist-based booing would be infinitesimal, if it even genuinely existed in the first place.

Goodes was a sniper. He was booed for being a sniper - as were other snipers. (Including our own players).
Goodes was a diver. He was booed for being a diver - as were other divers. (Including our own players).
Goodes "got away" with so much at the MRP, was placed on a pedestal by the media, his indiscretions glossed over and his achievements celebrated beyond all proportion. Like others given this favourable treatment (Judd, Selwood, etc) - he was booed.

There are very few players I've 'booed' at the footy - and all would fulfill one or more of the above categories.

Goodes has a different background to me. Was he booed for that? Lots of other players share similar backgrounds yet weren't booed so there would appear to be strong evidence to suggest that wasn't ever the issue. The only 'racist' elements seem to have come from the man himself, and the media setting out to make Hawthorn the villain.

Could people with genuinely racist views use the above as cover to boo Goodes? This is the ONLY argument against his being booed. Then, the fact they didn't boo Cyril, Burgoyne, Franklin, Gibson, etc, etc - does that just make them a coward, unable to truly stand by their convictions?
 

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In my mind, the cause of Goodes being booed was his actions on field, magnified by the blatant favouritism he received from umpires and MRP and subsequently blown out of all proportion by the media reporting of the issue. The percentage of racist-based booing would be infinitesimal, if it even genuinely existed in the first place.

Goodes was a sniper. He was booed for being a sniper - as were other snipers. (Including our own players).
Goodes was a diver. He was booed for being a diver - as were other divers. (Including our own players).
Goodes "got away" with so much at the MRP, was placed on a pedestal by the media, his indiscretions glossed over and his achievements celebrated beyond all proportion. Like others given this favourable treatment (Judd, Selwood, etc) - he was booed.

There are very few players I've 'booed' at the footy - and all would fulfill one or more of the above categories.

Goodes has a different background to me. Was he booed for that? Lots of other players share similar backgrounds yet weren't booed so there would appear to be strong evidence to suggest that wasn't ever the issue. The only 'racist' elements seem to have come from the man himself, and the media setting out to make Hawthorn the villain.

Could people with genuinely racist views use the above as cover to boo Goodes? This is the ONLY argument against his being booed. Then, the fact they didn't boo Cyril, Burgoyne, Franklin, Gibson, etc, etc - does that just make them a coward, unable to truly stand by their convictions?
One of the best posts I have read re this, spot on.

I thought Goodes was an absolute flog, not because of his skin colour, but because of his despicable actions on the field, particularly in his later years.

Just like I think Cyril and Silk are legends of the game, yes they are outstanding players, but their actions on the field are also 1st class.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Thaihawk

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I reckon it'd go the other way. Who ever comes out first will be lifted onto the collective media's shoulders and carried around as a hero. Anyone in the media or within clubs who says or does anything negative in relation to it will be torched by the media - particularly the social media. There will still be the odd dickhead in the crowd who will take the opportunity to yell out something homophobic, but that type of person is going to say bigoted shit regardless.

I suspect the reason no player has come out publicly yet is because they don't want to be in the spotlight over it. They'd want to be remembered for their footy, and not their sexuality. And it's also completely irrelevant to their football - or in other words; it's no one else's business.
Well said cryptor, especially the bit highlighted. Do we care what religion our doctor or gardiner are; or whether they're gay, or what country they were born in? No. not the majority of us, but there would be a handful who do, and that minority are the trouble makers.
 
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