No Opposition Supporters General AFL and other clubs discussion thread. **Opposition fans not welcome** Part 4

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Changa10

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I may occasionally drop the f-bomb at the footy particularly if the umpiring decisions are really irritating me - but usually it's nothing more than the odd 'oh that's BS!' etc. I am fairly liberal with my use of campaigner around mates etc but I am fairly conscious of using it where kids might be present. The f-bomb is on TV, littered throughout music and I heard it frequently even at primary school so I am less uptight about it - but I know that campaigner still has some shock value to it so I don't use it at the footy, no.
:thumbsu: On exactly the same page Ned!!
 

Carl Spackler

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https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...d/news-story/5e2a903d59cc7a83f008a197b2dddc84

Consider these numbers. So far this year there have been 8777 tackles in 72 matches across eight rounds.
Of those 8777 tackles, only 610 have been deemed worthy of catching an opposition holding the ball. That’s 6.9 per cent of all tackles.
You want to open up the game? Triple that reward rate.

Clarko says:

Hawthorn tactician Alastair Clarkson put holding the ball on the agenda after the Hawks were beaten in a 2016 semi-final in which they were awarded three holding the ball frees from 104 tackles.
But he has been vocal before and since that night, recently describing Aussie rules footy as “the most complex game in the world”.
But, of course, dingleberry disagrees.

Geelong coach Chris Scott has said eliminating prior opportunity would worsen congestion.
"There would be 500 free kicks a game,” Scott said.
"The notion that you can just sweat on a player and as soon as he takes possession you can knock the ball out with a tackle and get a free kick is counter to everything we teach young players."
 

Yardie

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You want to open up the game? Triple that reward rate.

Clarko says:
But, of course, dingleberry disagrees.
Interestingly on the weekend at my girls under 14 game the umpires were red hot on incorrect disposal. If the ball got knocked out in a tackle they were pinged. Was over the top but consistent. At quarter time was going over to the umps to introduce myself (was the boundary ump and didn't get around to it at the start of the game) and one of the umps was saying "if you don't pay the free kicks it just turns into a rolling maul". So I watched a bit more carefully in the second and he was spot on. Free kick was paid and the girls had to start spreading to either receive or pick up players. Opened up the game completely and we got to see some great skills from the girls when they had some space to operate.
 

grumbleguts

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Interestingly on the weekend at my girls under 14 game the umpires were red hot on incorrect disposal. If the ball got knocked out in a tackle they were pinged. Was over the top but consistent. At quarter time was going over to the umps to introduce myself (was the boundary ump and didn't get around to it at the start of the game) and one of the umps was saying "if you don't pay the free kicks it just turns into a rolling maul". So I watched a bit more carefully in the second and he was spot on. Free kick was paid and the girls had to start spreading to either receive or pick up players. Opened up the game completely and we got to see some great skills from the girls when they had some space to operate.
This kind of is the problem. When an umpire comes in the game with an attitude or an agenda: if you pay free kicks you get an open game is completely the wrong attitude. It's like police getting a speeding quota.

You pay free kicks that are there and you don't pay the ones that aren't and everyone's happy.
 
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Incorrect disposal is the free kick not being paid. They need to keep prior opportunity but penalise incorrect disposal. The Bulldogs won in 2016 because they were allowed to throw, not because of leniency in prior opportunity (with some exceptions in our SF loss to them grrrr). All teams do it but some more than others. Unfortunately Hawthorn’s 2012-2016 game relied on kicking, and there’s no “incorrect kick” or throw equivalent, so we did not benefit from the leniency. I appreciate it’s hard for the umpires to spot all the throws in a fast moving game but when a player has one arm pinned and doesn’t kick it, it is reasonable to infer that they have thrown it.

As usual the AFL has no idea about unintended consequences of all their rule changes and emphasis on speeding up the game. Incorrect disposal being ignored is one of them. But hey, they got the romance of a bulldogs flag!
 
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This kind of is the problem. When an umpire comes in the game with an attitude or an agenda: if you pay free kicks you get an open game is completely the wrong attitude. It's like police getting a speeding quota.

You pay free kicks that are there and you don't pay the ones that aren't and everyone's happy.
Pisactly, pay the ones that are there and not the ones that aren’t and most will be happy. It can get too agenda based at the top level due to media pressure on particular happenings from the previous round, I mean how many times have we seen it in the past? Free kick for “x” seem to not be paid one round the media questions it all week and bam the umps are handing out frees for that offence the next weekend like Oprah giving away prizes to here audience. If there was a consistency in style of frees given or not from week to week I think the issues would be minimised. For instance for 25 mins of one game in one round they chose to crack down on players pushing/hitting opponents in the chest, why none previous or after?
 

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Gralin

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This kind of is the problem. When an umpire comes in the game with an attitude or an agenda: if you pay free kicks you get an open game is completely the wrong attitude. It's like police getting a speeding quota.

You pay free kicks that are there and you don't pay the ones that aren't and everyone's happy.
Lol.
If you don't pay the free kicks that are there for HTB and incorrect disposal the mauls form. If you do the field does open up as players spread out.

If you reward the tackler the first time you stop 5-6 of the ball spilling pile ons you get that often end in the stoppage the umpires are trying to avoid by not blowing the whistle, mostly because of prior opportunity.

Get rid of prior opportunity and pay what's there consistently
 

B&GBlood

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Lol.
If you don't pay the free kicks that are there for HTB and incorrect disposal the mauls form. If you do the field does open up as players spread out.

If you reward the tackler the first time you stop 5-6 of the ball spilling pile ons you get that often end in the stoppage the umpires are trying to avoid by not blowing the whistle, mostly because of prior opportunity.

Get rid of prior opportunity and pay what's there consistently
Adding to the above;
Players will quickly learn not to pick up the ball but knock it clear. The half tackle that grabs the player prematurely also needs to be penalised more often, that will also help clear the congestion.
Finally a soap box of mine; penalise third player involved in a tackle.(especially on the ground) With fewer players involved the umpires will be able to see what is actually happening, without guessing, and it will give the guy with the ball half a chance of getting it out.
 

Brishawk

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Lol.
If you don't pay the free kicks that are there for HTB and incorrect disposal the mauls form. If you do the field does open up as players spread out.

If you reward the tackler the first time you stop 5-6 of the ball spilling pile ons you get that often end in the stoppage the umpires are trying to avoid by not blowing the whistle, mostly because of prior opportunity.

Get rid of prior opportunity and pay what's there consistently
I think there is a significant difference between Auskick and afl. Auskick kids can’t smash people in tackles hard enough for to force the ball to spill. I don’t think we can assume the same outcome.

If every player is one v one at a stoppage the first player to tackle the ball carrier is unlikely to hit with much force or even be able to hit hard enough to spill the ball. The probability of a spill thus increases with the addition of a second player who can target the arms to force a spill. You might even encourage racking the ball out of the players hand. Certainly players will walk the fine line between hard tackle and dangerous tackle.

So ball security becomes a focus when winning the ball and thus it becomes more likely a player taking the ball will hold it to his body rather than exposed to facilitate a handball to a team mate. If this happens then we get more ball ups.
 

cryptor

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https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...d/news-story/5e2a903d59cc7a83f008a197b2dddc84



You want to open up the game? Triple that reward rate.

Clarko says:



But, of course, dingleberry disagrees.
What Chris Scott isn't factoring in is that when the umpiring changes the players/teams change the way they play in response. Lowering the tolerance for HTB calls won't translate to a massive increase in HTB calls. It might in the short term, but clubs will quickly adapt to this. If the chance of getting pinged for HTB increases then players will look to dispose of the ball rather than just hold on and hope for a stoppage - or better yet, tap the ball on.
 

Gralin

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.

So ball security becomes a focus when winning the ball and thus it becomes more likely a player taking the ball will hold it to his body rather than exposed to facilitate a handball to a team mate. If this happens then we get more ball ups.
No we get HTB and a free
 
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