No Opposition Supporters General AFL and other clubs discussion thread. **Opposition fans not welcome** Part 4

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Bumps"N"Grins

Premiership Player
Oct 15, 2014
3,014
4,946
Doing 80kph in the fast lane.
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
The Boro, Knicks, Fins
I could add that if the AFL truly want to go down the road of respecting umpires how about cutting out any form of backchat from players, including the theatrical headshaking when a decision goes against a player, think little Gary. Starting with the crowd is placing the cart in front of the horse. Human nature would dictate that if the crowd see their teams players acting hard done by then that only serves to perpetuate that feeling in the crowd.
 

Ned Ryerson

Future Captain
Sep 23, 2012
13,148
39,893
Punxsutawney, PA
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Sticks and stone will break my bones but words will never hurt me.
That’s a cute phrase to teach to the underdeveloped minds of children to help them find some sort of resilience to name calling. Mature minds are beyond complex and words can hurt, cause harm and lead to drastic results such as suicide.

And before you attribute this to some sort of modern victim mentality - my uncle had endured a lifetime of ridicule because he was a very short guy. He killed himself in his early 20s because of it. This was in the 1960s.
 

JoeHawk

Norm Smith Medallist
May 19, 2008
6,702
9,643
Templestowe
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I could add that if the AFL truly want to go down the road of respecting umpires how about cutting out any form of backchat from players, including the theatrical headshaking when a decision goes against a player, think little Gary. Starting with the crowd is placing the cart in front of the horse. Human nature would dictate that if the crowd see their teams players acting hard done by then that only serves to perpetuate that feeling in the crowd.
Now you’re dreaming
 

Abasi

WINGED GOD
Apr 19, 2006
58,030
94,904
Bayside
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Spurs, Socceroos
On a serious note, I can understand that he probably doesn't want to be abused at work, but it's far from being the worst insult around. If he can't handle that, then maybe being an AFL umpire isn't the right job for him.
Name an occupation anywhere in the world where an employer will tell their staff that being abused is just part of the job?

And I don’t mean local brickies or mechanics.

Businesses who do that will not exist in 10 years time.
 

Abasi

WINGED GOD
Apr 19, 2006
58,030
94,904
Bayside
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Spurs, Socceroos
I could add that if the AFL truly want to go down the road of respecting umpires how about cutting out any form of backchat from players, including the theatrical headshaking when a decision goes against a player, think little Gary. Starting with the crowd is placing the cart in front of the horse. Human nature would dictate that if the crowd see their teams players acting hard done by then that only serves to perpetuate that feeling in the crowd.
Respecting the umpires isn’t a new thing though.

This is about verbal abuse from people who can’t have a free kick paid against them.

We all know that “Demonstrative behavior” can be penalized in game.
 

Larry Barnsworth

Playing my Natural Game
Mar 11, 2018
1,600
2,313
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I don't even reckon it's much of an emotional game anymore. It isn't for me anyway.
Recent game I attended, there was the inevitable change of interpretation in the 2nd half. It was so obvious and I just laughed. Suddenly we had apparently changed sports.

Only a matter of time before HQ directs the sound dude to spend the game with a finger poised over a button to pipe in those recorded cheers as soon as the crowd starts booing. Another one that can be plucked from the WWE playbook.

Never had an issue with obnoxious morons being held accountable for their obnoxious behaviour.

Oh, oh - I remember back in the ammo's 20 odd years ago, we had this umpire who was BMI challenged. One of our supporters yelled similar out to him, just letting him know in case he hadn't noticed - and he paid a free kick against us!
 

A Cut Above

Every Other Anchor
Aug 27, 2015
21,853
68,169
San Diego
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Channel Four News Team
Again, I think what we are seeing here is a reaction to the final quarter documentary that has just come out and the coverage of violence at the footy we had over the first half of the season.

The booing of Ablett got headquarters nervous that they would have another example of fan behaviour out there as the same time the doco was stirring up old feelings and raising anew questions about the AFL's responsibility when it comes to crowd behaviour

I also think there is suddenly a lot of coverage of this at a time when the game on field is traditionally questioned, we always have complaints in winter about increased congestion, decreased scoring, less games with bye weeks etc.

Pretty good timing to shift the focus and sell a lot of papers and outrage about whether you can boo instead of whether we should bother watching
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/i-m-not-at-the-ballet-cops-bail-up-pies-fan-for-barracking-too-loud-20190611-p51wfr.html

It isn't just booing or calling umpires names anymore - fans risk being thrown out of the MCG for barracking 'too loudly'.



Name an occupation anywhere in the world where an employer will tell their staff that being abused is just part of the job?

And I don’t mean local brickies or mechanics.

Businesses who do that will not exist in 10 years time.
As a self-confessed pacifist I'm thrilled to hear the Army, Navy & Air Force won't exist in 10 years, thanks Abasi!
 

Ned Ryerson

Future Captain
Sep 23, 2012
13,148
39,893
Punxsutawney, PA
AFL Club
Hawthorn
As a self-confessed pacifist I'm thrilled to hear the Army, Navy & Air Force won't exist in 10 years, thanks Abasi!
Got a mate in the army - they’re actually pretty serious about bullying these days. He even took a superior down for it.

Name an occupation anywhere in the world where an employer will tell their staff that being abused is just part of the job?

And I don’t mean local brickies or mechanics.

Businesses who do that will not exist in 10 years time.
Not to mention that in Victoria workplace bullying can lead to criminal charges - particularly if it leads to those employees committing self-harm. Almost positive those laws extend to customers who abuse staff.
 

Larry Barnsworth

Playing my Natural Game
Mar 11, 2018
1,600
2,313
AFL Club
Hawthorn
M22 was AFL members reserve last time I was there?

5 year ban minimum for violence is great though
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Rioli magic

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 15, 2009
7,240
5,755
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Milan Lucic

A Cut Above

Every Other Anchor
Aug 27, 2015
21,853
68,169
San Diego
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Channel Four News Team
I’m guessing you’ve missed the amount of investigations going on in the armed forces regarding behavior.
"Name an occupation anywhere in the world where an employer will tell their staff that being abused is just part of the job?"

Fantastic to know being shot at, held hostage, stabbed, ambushed or blown to bits doesn't constitute being "abused"..... or that none of those things are as harmful as being called nasty names by co-workers. :drunk:
 

Hong Kong Hawk

All Australian
Aug 1, 2015
738
1,978
Hong Kong
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
West Brom
The game was faster and more exciting 40 years ago and anyone that says any different hasn't got a clue.
What I really miss is the big forward versus the big backman in the last quarter. Mid-fielders simply getting the ball out of the middle to the forward line and letting the greats go to work - Carey, Brereton, Lockett, Quinlan etc.

Now - midfielders chipping the ball around from start to finish generally bores the crap out of me. Commentators marvel when a big forward takes a contested mark, whereas it was commonplace in bygone eras.

I still love the Hawks, but I don’t really like the structure of the modern game compared to the era I grew up watching. It can still be exciting and compelling as a contest, but it lacks beauty.
 

Sixpence

Premiership Player
Dec 5, 2009
4,846
5,651
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Name an occupation anywhere in the world where an employer will tell their staff that being abused is just part of the job?
Not really sure why you want me to? I wouldn't expect any employer to say that, including the AFL. If you become an AFL umpire then you'd surely expect a few barbs come your way, as you would in any role in the service industry. That's not to say you'd deserve it, but people can be campaigners so you need thick skin.
 

cryptor

Premium Gold
May 11, 2008
16,794
34,173
AFL Club
Hawthorn
It is only loosely a work place, one which all the participants have historically been aware of what comes with the territory.
The argument of "How would you like it in my workplace" just doesn't stand as it has never been a part of 90% of work places.
Except for when I was moonlighting as a stripper for hens nights and party buses, then some of the drunken comments I got would have made a grandmother blush.
I’m not the one making the workplace case. I’m making the case against “it’s been fine for a long time so it should still be fine”.

There’s plenty of things in society that were once socially acceptable and perfectly legal. But we progress and things change.
 

Gralin

Super Moderator
Apr 8, 2010
30,221
44,982
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Buffalo Bills
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/i-m-not-at-the-ballet-cops-bail-up-pies-fan-for-barracking-too-loud-20190611-p51wfr.html

It isn't just booing or calling umpires names anymore - fans risk being thrown out of the MCG for barracking 'too loudly'.
So we have a story, about a single fan, told by said fan saying I was cautioned for being to loud.

He wasn't removed and it's all from his point of view.

How do you know any of it is true? How do you know he didn't deserve a caution to tone it down?

The AFL media is run like reality TV these days, they have to be relevant, they have to get the clicks, they make up news bait on every topic under the sun, current affair and today tonight have been doing it for years

Telling a few loud blokes to tone it down early doesn't sound that bad to me considering some of the barracking you find at the footy
 

Hong Kong Hawk

All Australian
Aug 1, 2015
738
1,978
Hong Kong
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
West Brom
Sun smart

No I don't think yelling maggot is the same as what Winmar copped, I'm saying the blokes doing it used the same arguments.

It's just words, they don't hurt, I'm not offended so they shouldn't be. It's part of footy, it's my right!
There are ways to express disgust at the umpiring without directly targeting an individual with mouths full of invective.

“That’s a crap decision umpire” versus “You green maggot, you bald-headed flog”. One targets the decision the other attacks the individual.
 

Gralin

Super Moderator
Apr 8, 2010
30,221
44,982
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Buffalo Bills
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/i-m-not-at-the-ballet-cops-bail-up-pies-fan-for-barracking-too-loud-20190611-p51wfr.html

It isn't just booing or calling umpires names anymore - fans risk being thrown out of the MCG for barracking 'too loudly'.




As a self-confessed pacifist I'm thrilled to hear the Army, Navy & Air Force won't exist in 10 years, thanks Abasi!
I'll also say it again as it bares repeating.
They will go hard early on behaviour, then see the reaction and adjust.

Get people worried about going too far and where they end up won't seem so bad in comparison. How often do we see they come out of the gates white hot on an issue and then slowly backpedal over several weeks to about half as bad as they started and everyone talks about sanity prevailing
 

A Cut Above

Every Other Anchor
Aug 27, 2015
21,853
68,169
San Diego
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Channel Four News Team
There are ways to express disgust at the umpiring without directly targeting an individual with mouths full of invective.

“That’s a crap decision umpire” versus “You green maggot, you bald-headed flog”. One targets the decision the other attacks the individual.
You realize its a slippery slope don't you?

Once you start ejecting and banning fans for umpire and player 'abuse' you either need to be very SPECIFIC about what precisely constitutes 'abuse' or you leave it utterly open to interpretation, after which you'll encounter exactly the same problem we're seeing with umpiring in the first place - rules & laws can be interpreted in very different ways by different people unless their wording and internal logic is absolutely watertight.

So don't be surprised is there's a security guard out there who interprets "that's a crap decision umpire" as constituting 'abuse'. You just won't know until you get thrown out of the stadium for it, and by then it'll be too late.
 

Abasi

WINGED GOD
Apr 19, 2006
58,030
94,904
Bayside
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Spurs, Socceroos
"Name an occupation anywhere in the world where an employer will tell their staff that being abused is just part of the job?"

Fantastic to know being shot at, held hostage, stabbed, ambushed or blown to bits doesn't constitute being "abused"..... or that none of those things are as harmful as being called nasty names by co-workers. :drunk:
:drunk: Indeed.

Joining the Armed forces comes with knowledge that your putting your life on the line for your country, it’s a fair reach that you’ve gone for there, but it’s still not comparable to “abuse in the workplace”.
 

Buzz Hawk

Club Legend
Jul 23, 2017
1,059
1,597
Sydney
AFL Club
Hawthorn
You realize its a slippery slope don't you?

Once you start ejecting and banning fans for umpire and player 'abuse' you either need to be very SPECIFIC about what precisely constitutes 'abuse' or you leave it utterly open to interpretation, after which you'll encounter exactly the same problem we're seeing with umpiring in the first place - rules & laws can be interpreted in very different ways by different people unless their wording and internal logic is absolutely watertight.

So don't be surprised is there's a security guard out there who interprets "that's a crap decision umpire" as constituting 'abuse'. You just won't know until you get thrown out of the stadium for it, and by then it'll be too late.
Yes it’s indeed a slippery slope.
The game I grew up loving and barracking for is not today’s game.
Sure, back in the day we’d hang over the fence and yell such missives as “get a new guide dog ya fool” etc, but there was never any malice in it, more just mates trying to impress each other and gee ourselves up. More often than not the ump would laugh at us on the way back to the bounce, as we deserved. The occasional ump would return serve, give us a gobfull and naturally we would give him the finger, as he deserved 😂. He loved it too.
Perhaps everything these days is sanitised for the tiddlers and the next generation and maybe that’s fair enough but I just can’t help thinking that the pure enjoyment of it all has been lost along the way. It’s all about participation these days and the threat from soccer isn’t it. Must keep them at bay.
Not like the good old days. Go to the footy, dribble some ****, hang some ****, then go home and laugh about it all.
As for the modern caper, spare me. I’ve been spoilt by the likes of dipper, Pritchard, jarman etc delivering lace out, tits up, from the centre square.
Apparently I’m too young to be reminiscing.
Will always love my hawks, but the rest of it, I’m not so sure.
 
Top Bottom