No Oppo Supporters General AFL and other clubs discussion thread. **Opposition fans not welcome** Part 6

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The hands of stone

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England trying to deflect the heat from their sh*t team & poor chance of success by shining the spotlight on us? This has either been news for 4+ years, or was never news to start with.

I find the timing very suspect.
Dont give the English too much credit .
If they wanted real damage they would have leaked it before last series before the Edgbaston test , Paine wouldn't have got off the ground alive .
 

Mr Meeseeks

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This isn’t 1999 sadly - England hold zero fear of the current Australian side and have every right not to. I love beating England more than most things - but England is basically ranked equally to us in the ICC rankings and we are relying on the form of more players on the wrong side of 30 than Geelon are. Our last test series was a home loss to India, and our test side hasn’t played for a year since. England would absolutely fancy their chances - scandal or no scandal.
England won't win a test this summer.

They are atrocious mate

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Ned Ryerson

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Dont give the English too much credit .
If they wanted real damage they would have leaked it before last series before the Edgbaston test , Paine wouldn't have got off the ground alive .
Not to mention having Paine still be captain would have benefited the Poms as well - Paine was possibly the worst captain in my living memory (too young to remember Hughes) so having him set the tactics would have been good for the Poms.
 

Ned Ryerson

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England won't win a test this summer.

They are atrocious mate

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Ordinarily I probably would have agreed with you. However replace the word England with India based on the touring party they sent last year, and especially after the first test annihilation, and not many Aussies would likely have argued much with you. Our side is bloody average outside of some shining lights and we haven't been a mentally dominant side for many a year now. With a new captain at the helm the series has probably become more even than it should be. Granted I notoriously talk down sides I follow as a way of steeling myself against defeats - but I never talked like this about our test team until fairly recently. We aren't the sure thing on our home turf that we used to be.
 

MinerBoy

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Other teams?
Not to mention having Paine still be captain would have benefited the Poms as well - Paine was possibly the worst captain in my living memory (too young to remember Hughes) so having him set the tactics would have been good for the Poms.
Smith was a horrible captain. I hope at no stage he gets the job again regardless of the sandpaper stuff.
 

Ned Ryerson

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Smith was a horrible captain. I hope at no stage he gets the job again regardless of the sandpaper stuff.
Even as a parochial NSWelshman I don't disagree with that, however he was bloody good at delivering a captain's knock when needed. Ponting wasn't all that bad but we have really been bereft of a truly great captain since Steve Waugh departed. He might have the personality of a piece of cardboard, but he absolutely what you wanted in the Aussie captaincy.
 

Big Hotdog

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Even as a parochial NSWelshman I don't disagree with that, however he was bloody good at delivering a captain's knock when needed. Ponting wasn't all that bad but we have really been bereft of a truly great captain since Steve Waugh departed. He might have the personality of a piece of cardboard, but he absolutely what you wanted in the Aussie captaincy.
Warney would have (was) the best captain. What a waste.
 

Ned Ryerson

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Warney would have (was) the best captain. What a waste.
Warney was a giant cricketing brain and would have made a great captain I'm sure - and combined with Waugh it was one hell of a combination to have leading the side. However I just loved Waugh's mentality. To me Warne and Waugh compare to Mitchell and Hodge - Sammy has the better footballing brain and higher footy IQ but Hodge is the general you are going to look to when backs are against the wall.
 

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Ned Ryerson

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I'm sorry I mentioned cricket now. Get a room guys. Spitballing on footy is nothing compared to cricket in this country
I really don't mind a segue into a cricket conversation November-February. In the immortal words of Richie Benaud (via Billy Birmingham) 'Cause when it's summer, in Australia, if you don't like cricket, it's a real bummer that, because cricket is the number one game in town'.
 

deanc

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Warney would have (was) the best captain. What a waste.
Beg to differ - not just my opinion BTW, his teammates over the journey do not mention Warne as a potential permanent captain in any of their various biographies. And don't be fooled by some past players when publicly asked - diplomatically respond; "Sure, Shane could of been a great skipper". This is about as applicable as; "Bradman could of been a great fast bowler!"...

Despite his bowing ability and knowledge of the game, Warne was/is a clown, while humour is a positive element as a man manager and captain/leader, it's rarely a critical component attributed to success. Warne's leadership style of primarily being great mates with everyone would not have lasted very long when unforeseen events arose and/or challenges required tough calls...

Waugh on the other hand was ruthless, demanded respect, didn't care who would have a beer with him after the match, although most did irrespective of results. Aside for winning, Waugh's focus was also making his players better people - Warne thought this was nonsense, along with him despising the tradition of the baggy green. In fact if it's wasn't for his immense ability with the ball, given his belligerent attitude, not to mention his off-field exploits, Warne would of been lucky to play 50 tests..!

Also note Warne's claim that Waugh was a 'selfish cricketer', in my mind, just highlights his misunderstanding of what sometimes is required to be a great leader - that aside, it's also a view not shared by any other player during Waugh's rein...

Ironically, Waugh's career didn't include 'selfish' drug and betting scandals and misogynistic adulterous indiscretions - and FFS, how many times did Waugh have to defend and straight bat questions from the media related to Warne's bogan adventures..!
 
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Ned Ryerson

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Waugh on the other hand was ruthless, demanded respect, didn't care who would have a beer with him after the match, although most did irrespective of results. Aside for winning, Waugh's focus was also making his players better people - Warne thought this was nonsense, along with him despising the tradition of the baggy green. In fact if it's wasn't for his immense ability with the ball, given his belligerent attitude, not to mention his off-field exploits, he would of been lucky to play 50 tests..!
Very much this. Waugh seems like a fairly intense individual and reminds me a bit of my mate who is in the military. My mate was as regimented and straight laced as they come - even in high school and beyond when we all acted like classic immature blokes, he was always different. I saw this documentary on the Ashes where they talked about how Waugh wanted players to go to Wimbledon during an Ashes tour and wanted the players to wear their baggie greens. I think some of the players were a bit 'wtf' and the English press mocked it. But the man got results - much like my mate wasn't the guy who would be doing stupid stuff with you while drunk, but he has literally led men on the battlefield and has a very distinguished career. I would rather have a beer with Warney as you say - and I have other mates who'd by the first I would want to drink with. But if I was to pick a mate of mine who is a naturally born leader there isn't anyone within cooee of him.
 

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