No Opposition Supporters General AFL Discussion #10 - Carlton Posters ONLY!

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Metalcrusher

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I was moved to write this post as a result of a handful of posts in tonight's gameday discussion thread bemoaning the poor skills on show (posts which are by no means invalid). I posted similarly last year.

When looking at the AFLW competition we must take into account the football background of those playing in the competition. You will hear throughout the commentary of these games about the various sports that these women have come from to play in this competition. Basketball, netball, soccer, there was even a Collingwood player who had a background in dirt bike competitions, but it goes far deeper than this.

We are not that far removed from the days when girls could only play football in the boys' junior competitions & only until a certain age. Once they reached the deemed age limit, they were tossed out of the game entirely as there was no female competition to cater for them from their mid-teens. Many of the women playing in the AFLW were victims of these rules & of course have not received the ongoing coaching, training & match practice to enable them to develop their skills/football nous in the way their male counterparts have. Access to football for girls at school has only become available in recent years. Many of your male TAC Cup graduates have been fortunate enough to not only receive ongoing coaching in local junior competitions, but also in properly sanctioned school competitions, where many have been coached by ex-AFL players.

Realistically, it may well be a minimum of another 5 years before we start seeing females graduating to the AFLW competition with improved skill levels. By then these girls should have had 7-8 years of ongoing coaching & matchday experience. They will also most likely be fitter & more mobile than the current AFLW players, having had access to facilities that some of the current women could only have dreamed of. A better fitness level should invariably assist the skill level.

My advice to Carlton supporters who find the current quality of the AFLW competition frustrating/hard to watch is to remember that at the end of the day all that matters is whether those women who are pulling on the Navy Blue & White jumper are winning. A 3.4.22 to 2.2.14 win is every bit as good as a 15.10.100 to 13.14.92 win.

Great balanced other side of the coin post :thumbsu:

Another thing I would like to add is that they play for said jumper with pride. I can live with the skill uptake whilst this format is in its infancy. Another CFC side to cheer and barrack for ... what's not to like???
 

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Jimmae

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I was moved to write this post as a result of a handful of posts in tonight's gameday discussion thread bemoaning the poor skills on show (posts which are by no means invalid). I posted similarly last year.

When looking at the AFLW competition we must take into account the football background of those playing in the competition. You will hear throughout the commentary of these games about the various sports that these women have come from to play in this competition. Basketball, netball, soccer, there was even a Collingwood player who had a background in dirt bike competitions, but it goes far deeper than this.

We are not that far removed from the days when girls could only play football in the boys' junior competitions & only until a certain age. Once they reached the deemed age limit, they were tossed out of the game entirely as there was no female competition to cater for them from their mid-teens. Many of the women playing in the AFLW were victims of these rules & of course have not received the ongoing coaching, training & match practice to enable them to develop their skills/football nous in the way their male counterparts have. Access to football for girls at school has only become available in recent years. Many of your male TAC Cup graduates have been fortunate enough to not only receive ongoing coaching in local junior competitions, but also in properly sanctioned school competitions, where many have been coached by ex-AFL players.

Realistically, it may well be a minimum of another 5 years before we start seeing females graduating to the AFLW competition with improved skill levels. By then these girls should have had 7-8 years of ongoing coaching & matchday experience. They will also most likely be fitter & more mobile than the current AFLW players, having had access to facilities that some of the current women could only have dreamed of. A better fitness level should invariably assist the skill level.

My advice to Carlton supporters who find the current quality of the AFLW competition frustrating/hard to watch is to remember that at the end of the day all that matters is whether those women who are pulling on the Navy Blue & White jumper are winning. A 3.4.22 to 2.2.14 win is every bit as good as a 15.10.100 to 13.14.92 win.
To be clear, my comments (which were a couple of minutes before yours, so I'm not sure if I was included in this) were compared to some of the better sides and midfielders in the competition, not compared to the men's game.

In fact while watching the game with family, I had to repeatedly present the fact that the AFLW is effectively a longer pre-season comp, where the women have:

- a shorter pre-season on a smaller budget
- longer matches than the men play at the same time of year
- less wages and poorer matchday conditions

As for the turnaround time, the efforts of Chloe Malloy for Collingwood last night clearly demonstrate that the turnaround time for a better standard of football is inside 3 years if the wages keep going up significantly.

Further to this, I'm concerned about the age of the core of our midfield and what our expectations should be for the team as a result. Bringing in Sophie Li (who was solid on debut and clearly a step above our existing midfield compliment) has compounded this.
 

Bluella

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To be clear, my comments (which were a couple of minutes before yours, so I'm not sure if I was included in this) were compared to some of the better sides and midfielders in the competition, not compared to the men's game.

In fact while watching the game with family, I had to repeatedly present the fact that the AFLW is effectively a longer pre-season comp, where the women have:

- a shorter pre-season on a smaller budget
- longer matches than the men play at the same time of year
- less wages and poorer matchday conditions

As for the turnaround time, the efforts of Chloe Malloy for Collingwood last night clearly demonstrate that the turnaround time for a better standard of football is inside 3 years if the wages keep going up significantly.

Further to this, I'm concerned about the age of the core of our midfield and what our expectations should be for the team as a result. Bringing in Sophie Li (who was solid on debut and clearly a step above our existing midfield compliment) has compounded this.
Thought Sophie was great with her tackling - she was pretty full-on! Will give Loynes a run for her money in the 'human cannonball' stakes.
 

My name geoff

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I was moved to write this post as a result of a handful of posts in tonight's gameday discussion thread bemoaning the poor skills on show (posts which are by no means invalid). I posted similarly last year.

When looking at the AFLW competition we must take into account the football background of those playing in the competition. You will hear throughout the commentary of these games about the various sports that these women have come from to play in this competition. Basketball, netball, soccer, there was even a Collingwood player who had a background in dirt bike competitions, but it goes far deeper than this.

We are not that far removed from the days when girls could only play football in the boys' junior competitions & only until a certain age. Once they reached the deemed age limit, they were tossed out of the game entirely as there was no female competition to cater for them from their mid-teens. Many of the women playing in the AFLW were victims of these rules & of course have not received the ongoing coaching, training & match practice to enable them to develop their skills/football nous in the way their male counterparts have. Access to football for girls at school has only become available in recent years. Many of your male TAC Cup graduates have been fortunate enough to not only receive ongoing coaching in local junior competitions, but also in properly sanctioned school competitions, where many have been coached by ex-AFL players.

Realistically, it may well be a minimum of another 5 years before we start seeing females graduating to the AFLW competition with improved skill levels. By then these girls should have had 7-8 years of ongoing coaching & matchday experience. They will also most likely be fitter & more mobile than the current AFLW players, having had access to facilities that some of the current women could only have dreamed of. A better fitness level should invariably assist the skill level.

My advice to Carlton supporters who find the current quality of the AFLW competition frustrating/hard to watch is to remember that at the end of the day all that matters is whether those women who are pulling on the Navy Blue & White jumper are winning. A 3.4.22 to 2.2.14 win is every bit as good as a 15.10.100 to 13.14.92 win.


I would be very surprised if an AFLW team could beat an U15's boys rep team. Conservatively speaking I would say that there would be at least 5,000 men's teams who would beat the AFLW premiers by 20+ goals.

I work closely with some of the AFLW girls, some of who routinely get in the bests for the best teams in the comp and their skill level would not be acceptable in any boys team after u10s. This is not hyperbole, it's my honest assesment.

There is a counter productive element in this AFLW business where by having instilled a false sense of greatness in these girls, they beleive that their skills are good enough because they play AFL. I won't name names, but these girls have not yet mastered the drop punt to the level I would expect from a 10 year old. In it's short time, there is a culture of non-criticism, at all levels, which has developed in women's footy and this will certainly hold it back even further behind than it already is if not rectified.

The harsh reality is that what this means is it will take 50 years before we see a female competition which resembles the quality of footy you would see at a men's amature game. It's simply not realistic to expect the AFLW to ever compare to the AFL. In order for the concept to work I feel the rules need to be changed in some way to make the games watchable. For one, smaller ovals are an absolute must! The girls kick 20m shorter than the males so the ovals need to be a minimum of 20m shorter. Turn it into the 20/20 of footy and it may have enough going where people will consider paying to watch it.
 

Jabba73

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Don't understand the need to compare the standard of AFLW with the mens game.

Why can't it be celebrated for what it is, a fledgling competition for the best women to showcase their talents in a game that has been denied to them at the elite level because of their gender, not their ability to play?
 

BlueGum

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Don't understand the need to compare the standard of AFLW with the mens game.

Why can't it be celebrated for what it is, a fledgling competition for the best women to showcase their talents in a game that has been denied to them at the elite level because of their gender, not their ability to play?
This every day of the week. All Sports are played differently by women and men. Different physical make up, and in the case of the AFL, we weren't ******* allowed to develop skills and play. And I call BS on a culture of non criticism. No team and no player will be leaving stones unturned to improve.
 

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My name geoff

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Don't understand the need to compare the standard of AFLW with the mens game.

Why can't it be celebrated for what it is, a fledgling competition for the best women to showcase their talents in a game that has been denied to them at the elite level because of their gender, not their ability to play?
I'm using the men's game as a benchmark to illustrate where I think the women's game is at. If I feel the women's game is at the level of men's 10-15 y.o. competitions, I don't know too many people who would pay to watch that, regardless of the novelty factor. If the women's comp is to be taken seriously as an elite football league, it has to be a lot better than what it Currently is. That's the reality.

Great that the women are playing the game and have the same opportunity as the men. It took too long. But no one is going to take it seriously as a football competition until it starts comparing to the men's version.
 

My name geoff

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This every day of the week. All Sports are played differently by women and men. Different physical make up, and in the case of the AFL, we weren't ******* allowed to develop skills and play. And I call BS on a culture of non criticism. No team and no player will be leaving stones unturned to improve.
I work with some of the AFLW girls and I will tell you categorically, they do not cop criticism any more than what you would expect at a little league comp.
 

MEB_

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This every day of the week. All Sports are played differently by women and men. Different physical make up, and in the case of the AFL, we weren't ******* allowed to develop skills and play. And I call BS on a culture of non criticism. No team and no player will be leaving stones unturned to improve.
EXACTLY
How can I learn to kick better when I was KICKED OFF THE TEAM for turning 12?!
 

My name geoff

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Gee, you would have been something else. What were you helping out with - moral, self-esteem, general team support? Your odious comparisons are both ignorant and patronising. Not having you at the games will be a huge loss.
Help out with what?
I'm not there to kill them with kindness that's for sure
 

Jimmae

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I would be very surprised if an AFLW team could beat an U15's boys rep team. Conservatively speaking I would say that there would be at least 5,000 men's teams who would beat the AFLW premiers by 20+ goals.

I work closely with some of the AFLW girls, some of who routinely get in the bests for the best teams in the comp and their skill level would not be acceptable in any boys team after u10s. This is not hyperbole, it's my honest assesment.

There is a counter productive element in this AFLW business where by having instilled a false sense of greatness in these girls, they beleive that their skills are good enough because they play AFL. I won't name names, but these girls have not yet mastered the drop punt to the level I would expect from a 10 year old. In it's short time, there is a culture of non-criticism, at all levels, which has developed in women's footy and this will certainly hold it back even further behind than it already is if not rectified.

The harsh reality is that what this means is it will take 50 years before we see a female competition which resembles the quality of footy you would see at a men's amature game. It's simply not realistic to expect the AFLW to ever compare to the AFL. In order for the concept to work I feel the rules need to be changed in some way to make the games watchable. For one, smaller ovals are an absolute must! The girls kick 20m shorter than the males so the ovals need to be a minimum of 20m shorter. Turn it into the 20/20 of footy and it may have enough going where people will consider paying to watch it.
I'm using the men's game as a benchmark to illustrate where I think the women's game is at. If I feel the women's game is at the level of men's 10-15 y.o. competitions, I don't know too many people who would pay to watch that, regardless of the novelty factor. If the women's comp is to be taken seriously as an elite football league, it has to be a lot better than what it Currently is. That's the reality.

Great that the women are playing the game and have the same opportunity as the men. It took too long. But no one is going to take it seriously as a football competition until it starts comparing to the men's version.
[the longest of sighs]

no

I've seen VFL games at a lower standard than some of the AFLW. Once you factor in that this is a pre-season competition, it almost draws even. There are definitely some with horrible footskills, but I've seen way too many tired kicks. I've also seen lots of elite kicks.

I also pointed out earlier why most women would be rather insular about male opinions. Perhaps make more effort on your part to accommodate that and a trusting environment of constructive criticism will evolve.
 

BlueGum

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I'm not there to kill them with kindness that's for sure
Ok, don't say what you are doing. I'm betting that there are other people there more suitably qualified, that are teaching, and coaching and constructively criticising. If I were a player, I'd probably ignore you too.
 
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