No Oppo Supporters General AFL Discussion #11 - Carlton Posters ONLY!

[Blutopia]

you're seriously suggesting being called a white something has some sort of equal impact as being called a black something? cause if so I'll withdraw now and not waste anymore time on it.....

Well yes I think you should withdraw right now. Because if you class being called a black something as racist (which from your opinion I assume you do) then being called a whit something is the same thing. So if you want equality - that’s exactly what it is. What do you want thy? - equality or hypocrisy.

Please re-read my posts. I am far from racist. I believe in true equality. I disagree with those that boo-ed Goodes. But those who boo are the ones with the issues. Anyone who boos has the issue. Even those who booed Milburn back at the day (me included at the time), we had the problem, we were offended by his actions but he has to serve his dues without our judgemental views.

My opinion is that there is an agenda behind this issue. In fact most of the issues raised in media have the same agenda - to divide and conquer.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

The Australian Dream. General release date 22/8/19. Looking forward to Stan Grant’s documentary on Adam Goodes.

 

[Blutopia]

Sure they have, typically if they have committed some dog act earlier in the game or if they are playing against their former club and the fans feel the player in question had been disloyal/mercenary for leaving.
But fans don't typically boo the same player, week after week after week. It was nothing to do with anything football related, sparked instead by the fact that Goodes had used his profile to speak out on behalf of indigenous Australians. This was unprecedented. The fans booing Goodes for daring to speak out were either racist or followers, moronically playing along because others were doing it.

So please BIGGUS, send me the handbook when it is ok to boo and not ok to boo. Ensure that this handbook is handed to every supporter upon entry to every ground so that we know when it is ok to do so and when not to. Be clear to outline specifically what is a ‘dog act’ and what is just a good hard contest. Now let me know if I don’t abide, I shall be ejected from the ground. Then I might know what is ok and then realise I live in a politically correct, totalitarian society where freedom is overshadowed by the need to ensure victims are protected so that we become a victim state and we will see how that pans out for everybody in the nation.

 

[Blutopia]

just as a final point, whitopia - you said you've been abused by being called a white so and so - exactly what minority are you a part of if you don't mind?

I think if you reread my comments you will actually see I dont mind. I didn’t enjoy the broken jaw I once had, and the the other bruises I sustained at the time - but I gained learnings from it and moved on.

But I see you have lowered yourself to name calling (changing my name to whitopia) which is fine by me as it shows me that you have the problem. It also shows that you are capable of acting as the pack animal that your extinct predecessor avatar did, to try and attack the minority

I stand firm by my perspective without judgement.

And to answer your question Thy, I don’t identify with any particular minority’s or group. You suggested I was in a minority and I went with the flow. I am a free thinker who looks at things from a perspective of truth without fear of judgement or of being attacked by the masses/herd. If you read my words and actually let your own true self process it rather than the general consensus effecting your perspective, you may see my point. If not, I still respect yours and the majority’s view.

 

[thylacine60]

I think if you reread my comments you will actually see I dont mind. I didn’t enjoy the broken jaw I once had, and the the other bruises I sustained at the time - but I gained learnings from it and moved on.

But I see you have lowered yourself to name calling (changing my name to whitopia) which is fine by me as it shows me that you have the problem. It also shows that you are capable of acting as the pack animal that your extinct predecessor avatar did, to try and attack the minority

I stand firm by my perspective without judgement.

you got in a fight and you think that means you are in a minority? oh my...... look, if this discussion was being had at an under-graduate level of sophistication, you'd be considered somewhere around pre-school - comes a time those of a particular stance need to be acknowledged as so far regressed it's just best to call off all communication.......

ps: as with everything else you've offered your suggestion thylacines hunted in packs is 100% wrong........

 

[Blutopia]

you got in a fight and you think that means you are in a minority? oh my...... look, if this discussion was being had at an under-graduate level of sophistication, you'd be considered somewhere around pre-school - comes a time those of a particular stance need to be acknowledged as so far regressed it's just best to call off all communication.......

ps: as with everything else you've offered your suggestion thylacines hunted in packs is 100% wrong........

Cool - I’m not an expert on the tassie tiger so I will admit I am wrong on that comment. They must be about the only dog or few of their family that don’t hunt in packs.

My mistake.

EDIT: I will refrain from having any opinion that is not aligned with yours in future because I don’t have the ‘under graduate sophistication’ to your level. Since you know my level of intelligence/IQ personally, then you just must be bowed down to. I assume you must be some kind of Demi god.

 

[RedFury]

There are two types of human beings. Victims and survivors. Words are words, boos are boos and they do not cause harm unless you let them, unless you want to be a victim.

Ah the old "Sticks and Stones"...

My great-grandfather, who was from an era with very different values, once told me this about 40 years ago. I thought it was total crap when he said it too.

The problem is, unless you've walked a bloody long mile in Adam Goodes' shoes, experienced everything from a racial standpoint that he and his family have experienced, understand the history of it all - from their perspective - how can you possibly *possibly* be in any position to judge how he receives and responds to these things?

 

[BIGGUS 64]

So please BIGGUS, send me the handbook when it is ok to boo and not ok to boo. Ensure that this handbook is handed to every supporter upon entry to every ground so that we know when it is ok to do so and when not to. Be clear to outline specifically what is a ‘dog act’ and what is just a good hard contest. Now let me know if I don’t abide, I shall be ejected from the ground. Then I might know what is ok and then realise I live in a politically correct, totalitarian society where freedom is overshadowed by the need to ensure victims are protected so that we become a victim state and we will see how that pans out for everybody in the nation.

Disingenuous nonsense. You don't need a "handbook" Bluetopia, just common respect for a fellow human being, the capacity to recognize systematic bullying and persecution when you see it and the moral fiber to stand against it instead of being a participant.

I'm a primary school teacher and these are values we try to teach and encourage in kids, with mixed success it must be said. A lot of kids come to school already showing these values because that's how they're being brought up. Some kids learn these values at school.
Others just never get it and maybe never will. They treat other people like crap and always think they can justify it.

 

[ESKIE]

 

[BIGGUS 64]

Selwood gets booed on occasion when he gets a free kick for ducking his head. Milburn was only (and rightly) booed by Carlton supporters.

Goodes was booed every week. If you can’t see the difference, you’ve got your eyes closed.

And moreover, Selwood, Milne, etc, were booed for things that took place on the footy field, in a game of footy. so the fans' displeasure was at least in context.
Goodes was being booed for taking a social/political stance off field on an important issue which he rightly feels very passionate about. Why should he have been hounded for speaking his mind? I'd call it "un-Australian", but I fear that the mindset of the many fans who participated is all too Australian. Resentment, because he did not just keep his mouth shut, smile and accept the accolades and not call us out on the appalling history of the treatment of his people. We want to be seen as a nation of "good blokes". We want all the bad stuff to stay in the closet where no one can see it.

A bunch of well known Pommy comedians had us pegged 40 years ago. I quote the Bruces sketch: "Rule two: no member of the faculty is to maltreat the abos in any way whatsoever... if there's anybody watching."
Here's the whole script, if you don't know it: Monty Python, Bruces Sketch

Sure, it's a joke, but with an uncomfortable ring of truth to it.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Who are we booing now?? The pack wants to know.

 

[Jabba73]

Who are we booing now?? The pack wants to know.

Jordan Russell, pretty sure

 

[Bearded Carpenter]

When we stop referring to aboriginal players as aboriginal players the better off we will be.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

The Australian Dream. General release date 22/8/19. Looking forward to Stan Grant’s documentary on Adam Goodes.

I look forward to watching it. Stan Grant is very articulate.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

I feel like I said my piece and made my stance on this very clear when it was all occurring, so alls I'm gonna say now is--when I disagree with Bolt, Devine, Newman etc, then I know in my heart that I am on the side I want to be on--the side with empathy, open hearts, and compassion.

 

[thylacine60]

shotgun that ride...........

 

[mediumsizered]

Selwood gets booed on occasion when he gets a free kick for ducking his head. Milburn was only (and rightly) booed by Carlton supporters.

Goodes was booed every week. If you can’t see the difference, you’ve got your eyes closed.

There it is. It was coming eventually. Here we have a debate with differing opinions, but apparently only one opinion can be right. I'm not buying it.

 

[thylacine60]

isn't goodes' opinion the right one?

 

[thylacine60]

as the melbourne autopsy thread bursts to 2 pages! these sods are going backwards.............

 

[Jabba73]

as the melbourne autopsy thread bursts to 2 pages! these sods are going backwards.............

It’s snowing on the mountains, maybe they lost their wifi connections

 

[Stamos]

There it is. It was coming eventually. Here we have a debate with differing opinions, but apparently only one opinion can be right. I'm not buying it.

So you must think Goodes is the biggest knob in the history of the game, right? Given that no other player has received treatment close to that extent?

Everyone is welcome to their own opinion, but if you ignore the obvious, you’re going to get called out on it.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Not everyone who booed Goodes is racist--sure. But they gave the actual racists a nice little hiding place in which to spew their hatred.
Goodes was something like 168th in the league for free kicks at the height of his abuse. I don't recall 167 other players being relentlessly bullied.

Watch the footage of the people in the crowds--they are spitting bile with an intensity I haven't seen on an ongoing basis before or since at the football.

Listen to the talking heads who are on the side of Bolt and Jones. Why were white people given the biggest platform to discuss this issue? If you flicked it over to Marngrook at the time, you would have seen the emotional distress that the Indigenous panel was experiencing at the mistreatment of one of their own, but very few people wanted to listen to them.

It isn't easy to challenge your bias, especially unconscious bias, but I implore anyone who hasn't watched The Final Quarter to do so with an open heart, and then come back and tell me that seeing all the articles and news extracts laid out in such a fashion hasn't opened your eyes even a little bit.

 

[Jabba73]

Not everyone who booed Goodes is racist--sure. But they gave the actual racists a nice little hiding place in which to spew their hatred.
Goodes was something like 168th in the league for free kicks at the height of his abuse. I don't recall 167 other players being relentlessly bullied.

Watch the footage of the people in the crowds--they are spitting bile with an intensity I haven't seen on an ongoing basis before or since at the football.

Listen to the talking heads who are on the side of Bolt and Jones. Why were white people given the biggest platform to discuss this issue? If you flicked it over to Marngrook at the time, you would have seen the emotional distress that the Indigenous panel was experiencing at the mistreatment of one of their own, but very few people wanted to listen to them.

It isn't easy to challenge your bias, especially unconscious bias, but I implore anyone who hasn't watched The Final Quarter to do so with an open heart, and then come back and tell me that seeing all the articles and news extracts laid out in such a fashion hasn't opened your eyes even a little bit.

Haven’t seen it yet, will make the time

 

[ESKIE]

Not everyone who booed Goodes is racist--sure. But they gave the actual racists a nice little hiding place in which to spew their hatred.
Goodes was something like 168th in the league for free kicks at the height of his abuse. I don't recall 167 other players being relentlessly bullied.

Watch the footage of the people in the crowds--they are spitting bile with an intensity I haven't seen on an ongoing basis before or since at the football.

Listen to the talking heads who are on the side of Bolt and Jones. Why were white people given the biggest platform to discuss this issue? If you flicked it over to Marngrook at the time, you would have seen the emotional distress that the Indigenous panel was experiencing at the mistreatment of one of their own, but very few people wanted to listen to them.

It isn't easy to challenge your bias, especially unconscious bias, but I implore anyone who hasn't watched The Final Quarter to do so with an open heart, and then come back and tell me that seeing all the articles and news extracts laid out in such a fashion hasn't opened your eyes even a little bit.

 

[HARKER]

So you must think Goodes is the biggest knob in the history of the game, right? Given that no other player has received treatment close to that extent?

Everyone is welcome to their own opinion, but if you ignore the obvious, you’re going to get called out on it.

I don't think that was suggested at all and I think your last sentence isn't allowing the discussion breathe.
Stamos and mediumsizered have to my viewing at least, generally presented rational arguments, so it's a little odd to see both shutting the other down.

I can't comment on the documentary but don't need to have seen it to come to some conclusions.
1. Booing is silly. Booing for 'fun' and simply because others are booing....................pick your own term.
2. Goodes is a decent individual, whether he wants to call himself Aboriginal or even Irish for that matter.
3. Documentaries are generally designed to serve up one view of an argument. They're not set-out to debate with themselves. Maybe there isn't another side.

Whichever way, Goodes didn't ask for what came about and if some good is to come from some bad, then it may not have been a complete waste.