No Oppo Supporters General AFL Discussion #12 - Carlton Posters ONLY!

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myblueroan

Premiership Player
Sep 26, 2011
4,132
10,885
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
fu** you must live a boring existence up there on your white horse of righteousness.
It gets ******* tiresome for those of us that aren’t as perfect as yourself.
No one likes to be lectured at. I get that.
Personally, I'd rather be boring than bombastic, racist or mysoginistic.
I 'd rather be capable of growing and changing than staying stuck in a stifling box just so I don't have to.
 

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OnceWeWereKings

Premiership Player
Oct 23, 2007
3,337
6,795
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Why don't you argue the point instead of attacking the person?
Because the point is argued ad nauseam by those that are more righteous than myself.
I couldn’t possibly compete.
It gets tiresome listening to the same paint by numbers rhetoric of some around here, particularly by the poster I responded to.
I prefer to use self reflection and work to improve my own faults and failings than to repeatedly find them and point them out in others.
I’ve not been good at it, though I am getting better.
I don’t have a history of attacking other posters, sometimes you just got to say enough is enough.
Well that’s my opinion anyway.
 

OnceWeWereKings

Premiership Player
Oct 23, 2007
3,337
6,795
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
No one likes to be lectured at. I get that.
Personally, I'd rather be boring than bombastic, racist or mysoginistic.
I 'd rather be capable of growing and changing than staying stuck in a stifling box just so I don't have to.
Agree wholeheartedly.
Also needs to be balanced with context of self reflection and ones own personal failings.
A sort of “he who has not sinned” reflection when espousing the expectation of righteousness they want others held accountable too.
 

Elmer_Judd

#Teague2020
Jul 25, 2019
12,996
23,379
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Leeds United
Agree wholeheartedly.
Also needs to be balanced with context of self reflection and ones own personal failings.
A sort of “he who has not sinned” reflection when espousing the expectation of righteousness they want others held accountable too.
Never said I was perfect or faultless FWIW. I just honestly believe his foot in mouth gaffes over the years was unbecoming/inappropriate of an AFL President to behave in this day and age, and I stand by that.

What has been somewhat forgotten in all of this controversy is Eddie was going to step down at the end of this year/season anyway.

It's also easy to forget that the Pies under Eddie's watch had badly handled the salary cap in recent years, resulting in the controversial exits of Treloar and Stephenson.

Put the issues of the racism report aside, the last few years of Eddie's tenure as Prez of Collingwood has not been great.

The racism report findings was the straw that finally broke the camel's back.
 

OnceWeWereKings

Premiership Player
Oct 23, 2007
3,337
6,795
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Never said I was perfect or faultless FWIW. I just honestly believe his foot in mouth gaffes over the years was unbecoming/inappropriate of an AFL President to behave in this day and age, and I stand by that.

What has been somewhat forgotten in all of this controversy is Eddie was going to step down at the end of this year/season anyway.

It's also easy to forget that the Pies under Eddie's watch had badly handled the salary cap in recent years, resulting in the controversial exits of Treloar and Stephenson.

Put the issues of the racism report aside, the last few years of Eddie's tenure as Prez of Collingwood has not been great.

The racism report findings was the straw that finally broke the camel's back.
Couple of points I’d like to make here.

With reflection, my post (the original post) was a little pointed in your direction, and probably a little too harshly.
I do however find your posting delivered in a manner that grates with me on a consistent basis.
A great number are coloured with a virtue signalling tinge that most, if not all of us, can’t abide by.

The balance of your post highlights the most significant point I was trying to make. I don’t know how any Carlton supporter can claim a higher moral compass than that of Collingwood. We’d be one of the last clubs to be able to pick up a stone and hurl it in any direction.

if we put as much effort in to highlighting the good done or the redemption from human failings then we’d be a lot closer to working towards the values you constantly espouse.
 

Gethelred

Brownlow Medallist
May 1, 2016
15,291
29,290
AFL Club
Carlton
Couple of points I’d like to make here.

With reflection, my post (the original post) was a little pointed in your direction, and probably a little too harshly.
I do however find your posting delivered in a manner that grates with me on a consistent basis.
A great number are coloured with a virtue signalling tinge that most, if not all of us, can’t abide by.

The balance of your post highlights the most significant point I was trying to make. I don’t know how any Carlton supporter can claim a higher moral compass than that of Collingwood. We’d be one of the last clubs to be able to pick up a stone and hurl it in any direction.

if we put as much effort in to highlighting the good done or the redemption from human failings then we’d be a lot closer to working towards the values you constantly espouse.
There's only so much you can do by focussing on solely the good. How much of our problems today can be traced back to ignoring or deliberately ommitting the negative lessons of the past?

The fastest route to improvement is to confront what you have done wrong, whether we're talking about a skill or something like this.
 

La Dispute

La Dispute
Jul 14, 2005
13,209
18,799
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Manchester City, Boston Bruins
The racism report findings was the straw that finally broke the camel's back.
Maybe so, but with a number of sponsors threatening to pull the pin it looks like Collingwood has caved to commercial pressure moreso than social pressure. Sure they're partly linked, but it does muddy the water a fair bit.

History will go down as 'McGuire sacked because of racism' when it actual fact it's more like 'McGuire sacked because money'

I feel a bit conflicted on the sacking on the whole. Eddie undoubted did an amazing job resurrecting the club, having picked them up at their lowest ebb and restoring them to being a powerhouse within a decade. Over the journey he's said some pretty unsavoury things, but he's a 55 year old who grew up in Broadmeadows, who has a microphone following him all hours of the day - there's bound to be some missteps along the way. He was on the way out at the end of the season anyway, but this leak was always going to have some casualties and as the figurehead of the Collingwood FC he was the natural target.

I'm always fascinated by some of the responses when these issues arise though. The benefit of a forum is you're able to mediate what you express to the extreme, but there's either some Gandhi-level pacifists, or plenty are out of touch with human nature.

I've seen some of the most vocal proponents of Eddie's sacking saying some pretty racy things to opposition supporters on other boards, but clearly can't apply some self-awareness, or don't want to, to the parts that don't suit them.
 
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Elmer_Judd

#Teague2020
Jul 25, 2019
12,996
23,379
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Leeds United
Couple of points I’d like to make here.

With reflection, my post (the original post) was a little pointed in your direction, and probably a little too harshly.
I do however find your posting delivered in a manner that grates with me on a consistent basis.
A great number are coloured with a virtue signalling tinge that most, if not all of us, can’t abide by.

The balance of your post highlights the most significant point I was trying to make. I don’t know how any Carlton supporter can claim a higher moral compass than that of Collingwood. We’d be one of the last clubs to be able to pick up a stone and hurl it in any direction.

if we put as much effort in to highlighting the good done or the redemption from human failings then we’d be a lot closer to working towards the values you constantly espouse.
Yeah fair enough and I appreciate your feedback.

Certainly I find the behaviour of previous regimes (ie John Elliott) certainly despicable in hindsight.
(Not just salary cap rorting either)

I do not really believe Eddie is not a racist deep down/at heart, I get the impression he has probably been around the wrong company (ie Sam Newman) for too long, and didn't have enough friends or people in his life to pull him in line when he said/did the wrong thing.

And he did great work with feeding and sheltering homeless people whilst President of Collingwood, I'll give him that.

Unfortunately I do feel very strongly about Adam Goodes and how he was railroaded out of the game (which really wasn't Eddie's fault mostly) and I still find it hard to let that King Kong gaffe go.

But I myself have said really hurtful and dumb things in my life that I wish I could take back.

Will try not to come across as too much as a Ned Flanders goody two shoes in future, unlike Obi-Wan Kenobi, I do not have the (moral) high ground

You certainly have given me some issues to think about, certainly, and I am glad you were pretty blunt about it, prefer the honest truth than sugar coating advice tbh 👍👍👍
 

myblueroan

Premiership Player
Sep 26, 2011
4,132
10,885
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Couple of points I’d like to make here.

With reflection, my post (the original post) was a little pointed in your direction, and probably a little too harshly.
I do however find your posting delivered in a manner that grates with me on a consistent basis.
A great number are coloured with a virtue signalling tinge that most, if not all of us, can’t abide by.

The balance of your post highlights the most significant point I was trying to make. I don’t know how any Carlton supporter can claim a higher moral compass than that of Collingwood. We’d be one of the last clubs to be able to pick up a stone and hurl it in any direction.

if we put as much effort in to highlighting the good done or the redemption from human failings then we’d be a lot closer to working towards the values you constantly espouse.
I think with Ed, he did so much good for that club and that can't be denied. Equally, all the things that brought him down were present in his farewell speech.
It's not either or with Ed is it.He runs the full spectrum.
One thing clear to me is it was time for him to go.
 

katmanblue

Premium Platinum
Nov 27, 2016
9,349
15,052
AFL Club
Carlton
No one likes to be lectured at. I get that.
Personally, I'd rather be boring than bombastic, racist or mysoginistic.
I 'd rather be capable of growing and changing than staying stuck in a stifling box just so I don't have to.
I'd argue we are all racist to an extent. It is part of human evolution. The us vs them, fear of the other, was/is a survival instinct. The last 50years of progressive thinking does not change what is in the lizard brain.

What we can do is suppress it with higher order thought. Some do it better, some, not so well. Others still, don't try. I think this is the difference.

This is where I think education can play a huge role. Many of those that don't try, are unaware of of the need to. We can change this.
 

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katmanblue

Premium Platinum
Nov 27, 2016
9,349
15,052
AFL Club
Carlton
There's only so much you can do by focussing on solely the good. How much of our problems today can be traced back to ignoring or deliberately ommitting the negative lessons of the past?

The fastest route to improvement is to confront what you have done wrong, whether we're talking about a skill or something like this.
But if you only look at what's wrong, then at what point does it become too hard?

Good and bad need to be balanced.
 

gunslingr

Team Captain
Jun 30, 2018
407
701
AFL Club
Carlton
What has been somewhat forgotten in all of this controversy is Eddie was going to step down at the end of this year/season anyway.
What's also been forgotten is that Eddie made that particular call a couple of days after receiving the report. Don't know why they felt they could stop it leaking for a whole year, but considering that Collingwood's culture of cover-ups was also criticised I reckon he'd have been able to leave more on his own terms if they released it at the time
 

teagueyubeauty

Premiership Player
Oct 5, 2004
4,750
10,498
Somewhere there
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Liverpool, Yankees
I read, from multiple sources, he made the decision to step down days “before” they received the report.
Not that I believe it, I think they had an inkling of the content.

On another note, Jeff Kennett 85,000 cats n dogs memberships obviously don’t cut it....ffs, they’ve won 4 of the last13 premierships. If you are not iron clad guaranteed to survive and even contemplate a thought process of moving then how the f could you survive when the inevitable happens


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 

tarczonandjane

All Australian
Oct 3, 2015
680
2,966
AFL Club
Carlton

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