No Oppo Supporters General AFL Discussion #12 - Carlton Posters ONLY!

[Gethelred]

I wonder: under the new rules, what's considered a bag/good performance by a KPP? Bruce just kicked 10. Harry kicked 7, and could've kicked 12. How many did Kennedy kick?

The AFL establishment are going to discuss the significance, do what they do whenever some new statistical outlier presents itself; self aggrandisement, glorification of the players/position involved regardless of merit, etc. I mean, we've always had ball magnets (Damien Peverill, Scott West, etc) but it took until Supercoach et al for them to suddenly start winning brownlows, best player awards. Sure, good KPF craft is worth celebrating, but how much of these goals are being generated by good forward craft?

Let's be honest: if Fev, prime Buddy, Gehrig got a crack at the delivery we've seen this year, and got to take their shots without the man on the mark getting involved when you pinched a few metres wide of him, Fev would've cracked the ton a few times, and both Buddy and Fraser would've been multiple centurions.

I 'spose what I'm asking is, where do we draw the line and say, "that's better than should be expected"?

 

[thylacine60]

What rules have magically produced the rebirth of the full forward, big scores and whopping margins? The new stand rule and capped interchanges? Amazing if so.

 

[gab213]

What rules have magically produced the rebirth of the full forward, big scores and whopping margins? The new stand rule and capped interchanges? Amazing if so.

Whatever it is that's caused it, I know that I'm loving watching the footy again.

 

[Gethelred]

What rules have magically produced the rebirth of the full forward, big scores and whopping margins? The new stand rule and capped interchanges? Amazing if so.

The stand rule kind of means that when you have the ball in that situation, it's 18 vs 17; person on the mark can't do jack squat to you. That's pretty significant. Or, you retreat 5m - let's call it 10, because you don't want to concede 50m, play on the safe side - you allow the team with the ball to just run 15 then kick 50+; for a sport that's increasingly about metres gained and field position, that's worth an incredible amount. And the interchange thing is contributing, if only at the tail end of games.

I kind of want to see if the aggressive footy lasts, if the coaches adapt better and shut games down more as the season progresses. At the very least, I want a bigger sample size than just the first 24 games.

 

[Ash24]

Sydney's selections over the last few years, particularly in the later stages of the drafts has been magnificent. It's a big shame we can't develop kids into hidden gems. This is who we have taken in the last couple years...

2016, Pick 47 - Harrison Macreadie
2016, Pick 59 - Cam Polson
2016, Pick 65 - Pat Kerr
2017, Pick 70 - Angus Schumacher
2018, Pick 66 - Finbar O'Dwyer



(I do still believe though that the AFL Academy system is unfair and somewhat corrupt)

 

[myblueroan]

What rules have magically produced the rebirth of the full forward, big scores and whopping margins? The new stand rule and capped interchanges? Amazing if so.

I think REM had a song about it.

 

[RPCB]

Breaking news that Dylan Shiel will miss at least 4 months.

 

[Gethelred]

I do still believe though that the AFL Academy system is unfair and somewhat corrupt)[/SIZE

I really don't. In general, Sydney uses their academy to get kids who wouldn't be otherwise playing footy. They run clinics in schools, pick up elite athletes or kids with elite attributes, and they put them in an academy as a substitute for growing up in - say - Victoria, immersed in and surrounded by a football society. To call Victoria a theocracy with Aussie Rules as the religion of choice is only just an exaggeration.

If you ever want to achieve the situation in QLD that AFL has their own level of support that can ensure the survival of the clubs up there without a COLA, you need the academies to do their work. It's got a passive level of support over the course of 20+ years in Sydney; a similar level and type of support that you see from Melbourne supporters, people who will pay attention when things are good. Give it another 20, and who knows?

If you agree with the notion that the AFL should be a national competition, then the academies are an understandable level of draft interference.

 

[Aphrodite]

Breaking news that Dylan Shiel will miss at least 4 months.

Season.

 

[RPCB]

Season.

Never want to see any player out injured for that long. Injuries suck.

 

[thylacine60]

didn't seem to miss him too much on the weekend...........

 

[Aphrodite]

Never want to see any player out injured for that long. Injuries suck.

Agree 100% no matter which Club they play for.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

[/QUOTE]

Never want to see any player out injured for that long. Injuries suck.

Spot on. Been a brutal weekend for season ending injuries, with Witts, Gresham and Shiel (all quality players) all suffering long term injuries.

 

[RPCB]

Spot on. Been a brutal weekend for season ending injuries, with Witts, Gresham and Shiel (all quality players) all suffering long term injuries.

Stephen Coniglio too. Confirmed to be out for the next 8-10 weeks and possibly longer.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

I really don't. In general, Sydney uses their academy to get kids who wouldn't be otherwise playing footy. They run clinics in schools, pick up elite athletes or kids with elite attributes, and they put them in an academy as a substitute for growing up in - say - Victoria, immersed in and surrounded by a football society. To call Victoria a theocracy with Aussie Rules as the religion of choice is only just an exaggeration.

If you ever want to achieve the situation in QLD that AFL has their own level of support that can ensure the survival of the clubs up there without a COLA, you need the academies to do their work. It's got a passive level of support over the course of 20+ years in Sydney; a similar level and type of support that you see from Melbourne supporters, people who will pay attention when things are good. Give it another 20, and who knows?

If you agree with the notion that the AFL should be a national competition, then the academies are an understandable level of draft interference.

Agree, but the 20% discount is a rort. First dibs absolutely they should get

I’d be happy for F&S to be exactly the same

Queensland and NSW the only places allowed to have “Academies”, NGA is just a ridiculous replacement for old school zones that we’ve somehow managed to get a “zone” as fruitful as Melbourne and St.Kildas in the past




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[tarczonandjane]

I’m wishing Shiel and Coniglio all the best... but has our bad luck now started to rub off even on all the guys we’ve tried unsuccessfully to recruit?

 

[katmanblue]

Breaking news that Dylan Shiel will miss at least 4 months.

Means * will kick more goals because there'll be fewer turnovers.

 

[CarltonBlooz]

Means * will kick more goals because there'll be fewer turnovers.

We certainly dodged a bullet there, thank the football gods that didn't work out.

 

[Gethelred]

Agree, but the 20% discount is a rort. First dibs absolutely they should get

I’d be happy for F&S to be exactly the same

Queensland and NSW the only places allowed to have “Academies”, NGA is just a ridiculous replacement for old school zones that we’ve somehow managed to get a “zone” as fruitful as Melbourne and St.Kildas in the past




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Hmmm...

I suppose I agree a bit, but you do need for there to be incentive for clubs to open academies. Say, Carlton started actively started going to South Africa and started developing from 9-10 years old; that's a rather hefty expenditure for a tiny return once in a blue moon.

Sydney's academy is only considered a rort because a) they've been up there for a long time now, and people are impatient; ie, 'why isn't Sydney AFL heartland already?', and b) because they've had a run of exceptional luck in the last 10 years, picking up 2 top 5 picks from their academy alongside the role players they usually get from it as well.

Instead of trying to beat them down to our level - something which is simply not going to happen, the AFL has a vested interest in keeping Sydney decent - why don't we join them and use the system to our advantage?

 

[Lace_Out]

Well we can see why the AFL has brought in the medical SUB after the rule changes they've implemented, they seem to be causing more injuries with the quicker game.

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[CJMB]

Agree, but the 20% discount is a rort. First dibs absolutely they should get

I’d be happy for F&S to be exactly the same

Queensland and NSW the only places allowed to have “Academies”, NGA is just a ridiculous replacement for old school zones that we’ve somehow managed to get a “zone” as fruitful as Melbourne and St.Kildas in the past




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

agree wholeheartedly

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Hmmm...

I suppose I agree a bit, but you do need for there to be incentive for clubs to open academies. Say, Carlton started actively started going to South Africa and started developing from 9-10 years old; that's a rather hefty expenditure for a tiny return once in a blue moon.

Sydney's academy is only considered a rort because a) they've been up there for a long time now, and people are impatient; ie, 'why isn't Sydney AFL heartland already?', and b) because they've had a run of exceptional luck in the last 10 years, picking up 2 top 5 picks from their academy alongside the role players they usually get from it as well.

Instead of trying to beat them down to our level - something which is simply not going to happen, the AFL has a vested interest in keeping Sydney decent - why don't we join them and use the system to our advantage?

It’s actually a bigger advantage than 20%, when you’re able to cobble together multiple later picks to pick up a genuine junior gun the advantage is just too big.
I get the system is imperfect with points attached to picks but I can’t see how that system can be better, it’s actually well thought out but pretty easy to scam.

Everyone pays full quid in the knowledge the system is not perfect and can be gamed to get an advantage, not 20% discount then an additional advantage on top


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[El Topo]

People would be a lot more understanding of the Sydney and Brisbane academies were it not for other clubs having 'academy' access to established AFL areas. The GWS Riverina zone may have been pared back, but the Victorian NGAs and the GCS NT zone are a transparent farce.

 

[Original Moody Blue]

I really don't. In general, Sydney uses their academy to get kids who wouldn't be otherwise playing footy. They run clinics in schools, pick up elite athletes or kids with elite attributes, and they put them in an academy as a substitute for growing up in - say - Victoria, immersed in and surrounded by a football society. To call Victoria a theocracy with Aussie Rules as the religion of choice is only just an exaggeration.

If you ever want to achieve the situation in QLD that AFL has their own level of support that can ensure the survival of the clubs up there without a COLA, you need the academies to do their work. It's got a passive level of support over the course of 20+ years in Sydney; a similar level and type of support that you see from Melbourne supporters, people who will pay attention when things are good. Give it another 20, and who knows?

If you agree with the notion that the AFL should be a national competition, then the academies are an understandable level of draft interference.

Absolutely 100%. Victorians who have only lived in Victoria have no understanding that AFL receives bugger all attention Interstate.
There are some remarkable kids in the Northern States and they should be allowed to be developed and recruited by these States. The AFL has ignored Victorian junior footy, and they now need to start developing this again and get more presence in the schools.

 

[Blue__Balls]

It’s actually a bigger advantage than 20%, when you’re able to cobble together multiple later picks to pick up a genuine junior gun the advantage is just too big.
I get the system is imperfect with points attached to picks but I can’t see how that system can be better, it’s actually well thought out but pretty easy to scam.

Everyone pays full quid in the knowledge the system is not perfect and can be gamed to get an advantage, not 20% discount then an additional advantage on top


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Random idea for tweaking it further.

Matching a bid uses the clubs next available pick in the same draft, with any points deficit then coming off the clubs future picks (beginning with their pick in the round the selection takes place).

For example:

Jamarra Ugle-Hagan
Current rules: bid on at Pick 1, discounted to 2400pts, WB match using 29, 33, 41, 42, 52 and 54 (2489pts).
Alternate rule: bid on at Pick 1, discounted to 2400pts, WB match using 29 (653pts) and carry a deficit of 1747pts into the first round of 2021.

Reef McInnes
Current rules: bid on at Pick 23, discounted to 618pts, Collingwood match using 41 and 42 (807pts).
Alternate rule: bid on at Pick 23, discounted to 618pts, Collingwood match using 41 (412pts) and carry a deficit of 206pts into the first round of 2021.

Basically, the closer in value to the bid your next pick is, the less the cost for the following season. Rewards clubs for smart positioning or live trading to match bids, disincentivises stockpiling of late picks to match early bids.