No Oppo Supporters General AFL Discussion #10 - Carlton Posters ONLY!

[agro]

The AFL did not punish them specifically for doping offences because it would hurt their bottom line. This is reflected quite heavily in their press conference, which seems rather apologetic for Essendon. In fact, you'll notice they go to bat in for them a few times there. If it weren't for WADA, the AFL would have swept it under the carpet. "Within the AFL's framework", what a load of tosh. They had the power to nail them for doping offences but chose not to.

You talk about past mistakes but what Essendon did to this sport was far more damaging and longer-reaching than any salary cap shenanigans, with the possibility of negative health effects down the track. They got off lightly because the AFL did not have the balls to do what was right, fearing it would result in a loss of profit. And let's be frank here, Essendon were never going to fold, even with harsher penalties - so they deserved a bigger whack for treating their own players as guinea pigs. If it's going to keep them on the bottom for ten years - what does it matter? Shouldn't have orchestrated a doping regime in the first place.

And adding the final insult to injury the AFL actually rewarded Essendon with the number 1 draft pick when their players finally served their penalties.

Pretty much like letting the fox eat the chickens once he's been caught in the chook house.

 

[thylacine60]

I ain't joking when I say the first 2-headed baby hasn't even arrived yet. This s**t will keep dragging behind * like a sack full of anvils.

 

[Jabba73]

I ain't joking when I say the first 2-headed baby hasn't even arrived yet. This s**t will keep dragging behind * like a sack full of anvils.

Exactly my fear.

What we did was essentially a white collar crime, what * did was about as bad as it can get inside a sporting club and the repercussions may echo through several generations.

 

[Jimmae]

The AFL did not punish them specifically for doping offences because it would hurt their bottom line. This is reflected quite heavily in their press conference, which seems rather apologetic for Essendon. In fact, you'll notice they go to bat in for them a few times there. If it weren't for WADA, the AFL would have swept it under the carpet. "Within the AFL's framework", what a load of tosh. They had the power to nail them for doping offences but chose not to.

You talk about past mistakes but what Essendon did to this sport was far more damaging and longer-reaching than any salary cap shenanigans, with the possibility of negative health effects down the track. They got off lightly because the AFL did not have the balls to do what was right, fearing it would result in a loss of profit. And let's be frank here, Essendon were never going to fold, even with harsher penalties - so they deserved a bigger whack for treating their own players as guinea pigs. If it's going to keep them on the bottom for ten years - what does it matter? Shouldn't have orchestrated a doping regime in the first place.

As far as I was aware they punished Essendope for governance issues NOT doping.

Apparently the AFL still don't believe Essendope .. doped.

* were not punished by the AFL for the doping program, unless you believe them paying Hird $1mil for a 12 month holiday in France was some sort of punishment. They were done for governance not injecting players, it cannot be clearer than that.

The club got off very lightly in the end, somehow they still feel qualified to play the victim.

The AFL uses the ASADA-framework for drug offences, and thus they had no right to be punishing those responsible (or the club) for anything related to the drug taking itself. They were legally obligated to step aside and let ASADA take the reigns, helping them with what ever they needed. Demetriou got in the way of that.

So they punished them for the lack of governance and breach of the laws of the game that lead to the drug taking. Any AFL imposed suspension for drug use, with or without evidence, would have at the very least discounted an ASADA/WADA penalty, and at worst seen the charges thrown out due to something along the lines of misconduct by the AFL.

Essendon lost upwards of $20m on this, whether it be their own capital or people backing them. They lost draft picks, both those they could no longer use, and players who would have quietly told them to * off. They lost some of their own players, and they will likely lose more as they slowly come to their senses.

I was too young to see Fitzy in his playing days, but our AFL club at Oxford Uni has reached out to him a few times over the years and he generally sends back a new bag of footies. So the boys here love him. Apparently he was big man on campus back in the 70s and Carlton were filthy on him for playing a few times vs Cambridge in rugby. His photo still hangs in the clubhouse

He had to play rugby for the Rhodes scholarship he was on, not sure why they were dirty on him for that in the end. Met his wife there too.

A Melbourne lawyer has issued a writ on behalf of Essendon suing Mike Fitzpatrick and Gill McLachan.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/essend...lan-and-mike-fitzpatrick-20170215-gudpm7.html

Melbourne lawyer Jackson Taylor has lodged a writ against outgoing AFL chairman Mike Fitzpatrick and chief executive Gillon McLachlan, alleging acts of deceptive or misleading conduct during Essendon's supplements saga.

It cites interviews McLachlan has done with journalists and alleges "the AFL contributed significantly to the exposure of players to risks to their health and safety" by failing to regulate against the use of peptides before September 2012.

 

[mediumsizered]

A Melbourne lawyer has issued a writ on behalf of Essendon suing Mike Fitzpatrick and Gill McLachan.

Apparently it's the AFL's fault that Essendope started injecting its players. What is wrong with some people? Too many preservatives in the food they eat? The hole in the ozone layer is melting their brain?

 

[RedFury]

I ain't joking when I say the first 2-headed baby hasn't even arrived yet. This s**t will keep dragging behind * like a sack full of anvils.

The real question is should * be allowed to recruit the two-headed kid under the F/S rule. Could be a great player, imagine the awareness FFS.

 

[Thrawn]

The real question is should * be allowed to recruit the two-headed kid under the F/S rule. Could be a great player, imagine the awareness FFS.

Not if the two heads are Jack Anthony-like.

 

[BluStreak]

The AFL did not punish them specifically for doping offences because it would hurt their bottom line. This is reflected quite heavily in their press conference, which seems rather apologetic for Essendon. In fact, you'll notice they go to bat in for them a few times there. If it weren't for WADA, the AFL would have swept it under the carpet. "Within the AFL's framework", what a load of tosh. They had the power to nail them for doping offences but chose not to.

You talk about past mistakes but what Essendon did to this sport was far more damaging and longer-reaching than any salary cap shenanigans, with the possibility of negative health effects down the track. They got off lightly because the AFL did not have the balls to do what was right, fearing it would result in a loss of profit. And let's be frank here, Essendon were never going to fold, even with harsher penalties - so they deserved a bigger whack for treating their own players as guinea pigs. If it's going to keep them on the bottom for ten years - what does it matter? Shouldn't have orchestrated a doping regime in the first place.

This^^ needs to be on a billboard in Melb.

 

[Blue Pulse]

Apparently it's the AFL's fault that Essendope started injecting its players. What is wrong with some people? Too many preservatives in the food they eat? The hole in the ozone layer is melting their brain?

Unfortunately, this is the world we live in today. Why accept the blame if we do something wrong when you can point the finger at someone else. * have never accepted that they did anything wrong and still believe that.

 

[HBF]

Apparently it's the AFL's fault that Essendope started injecting its players. What is wrong with some people? Too many preservatives in the food they eat? The hole in the ozone layer is melting their brain?

Amazing some of the responses I have read on twitter from Essendon supporters essentially calling Fitzpatrick a crook.
FFS you can't even make this s**t up.

After all this time they are still deluded. Such a shocking supporter base (except for Doss)

 

[agro]

Amazing some of the responses I have read on twitter from Essendon supporters essentially calling Fitzpatrick a crook.
FFS you can't even make this s**t up.

After all this time they are still deluded. Such a shocking supporter base (except for Doss)

Nothing in there about Ron Evans being the owner of the catering company that held the catering rights of Subiaco Oval whilst at the same time the AFL ensured the fixturing of all games at Subiaco rather than split between Subiaco and the WACA.

 

[Raging Blue]

Yep, suffered a severe bout of it myself for about 15 years after we were heavily penalised for salary cap breaches.

Now I redirect my anger at the people in the club that both allowed it to happened and condoned the attempted cover up. If we had accepted our penalty as a necessary deterrent to other clubs trying the same path, we could have recovered from our malaise and accepted the new way of doing business and a path back to success much earlier, by accepting our culpability and therefore a lesser penalty.

We did the wrong thing, we should have been punished. At the time the AFL went OTT due to our intransigence, I have learned to accept that cannot be undone.

I guess the difference is, I knew we had done the wrong thing, not sure some * supporters will ever be able to admit it. When they can stop blaming external enforcement agencies, maybe they will find some peace with this part of their history. Stupid comments like that from their previous captain today are better left to conversations with friends, not social media and public consumption. They got off lightly, time to let it go.

I wouldn't feel too guilty about our salary cap breaches. This had been going on for decades by all clubs. I knew players in the Amateurs that were getting paid. Over the years, at my work, we have had many ex VFL/AFL players pass through, along with a couple of board members. One ex board member told us that they had paid a particular player a lot of money to keep him. This club has never been caught for salary cap breaches. This club also won 2 Premierships with this player. I won't mentioned club or player as it was a private conversation ( Please note, I will never mention player or club)

Bottom line, we should have been penalised. We were reckless and arrogant and got caught. We as a club took responsibility and copped our punishment. But what pissed me off, was the floating penalty that was imposed. AFL run by Demetriou & Evans (Ess connections & our arch rivals) take first 2 draft picks. We finish bottom, means penalty massive. Ess get caught around those years but finish high on ladder, penalty much less severe even though they lose first 2 round picks. From 1968 to 1999 we were a power house and all the opposition clubs were loving seeing us getting whacked.

We even got criticised by an opposition board member (might have been Ess linked) for our debts in the mid 2000's and how badly we were run as a football club. Even though these debts were predominately linked to the legends stand we built in the 90's. We a as club didn't envisaged Waverley going & Docklands being built. No one spoke up against this crap as our President Collins had his own ambitions. Now look at Princes Park, how good was it watching the women's team run out in front nearly 25,000 fans. Our women get to play in a stadium witch has soul. Look at Collingwood & Melbourne. Their women play on a paddock with no link to their past.

Rohan Connelly & Finey on SEN last year were ripping into Carlton re 1995 premiership and were saying we breached salary cap when in fact we were never caught for any breaches in 1995. The only team to have won a premiership (1993) and have been caught for salary breaches is Essendon. They never mentioned this.

As a Carlton supporter I would not get sucked into feeling guilty over our breaches. There has been constant brainwashing & conditioning by media & opposition supporters because many love to hate us.

What Essendon has done should never be compared to us. What Essendon done is not comparable. Imagine all the other illegal substances they got which they never got caught for. What Essendon did was so massive that it left the AFL no choice than to try and cover it up (But to give them the No 1 pick was a disgrace)

We Carlton, over 150 years, have the greatest history, the best jumper, the best song, quality supporters and I'm very proud of this. This is not to say the club has done things well over past few years. But things have changed & a giant is slowly awakening.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

Nominations for AFL/VFL administrators who were good at their job? Cue cricket noises... Easiest gig in the universe and exceptionally well paid. Australian rules is the opiate of the fans. Opium dens at the 'G. I'd like to see that.

 

[El Topo]

Yep, suffered a severe bout of it myself for about 15 years after we were heavily penalised for salary cap breaches.

Now I redirect my anger at the people in the club that both allowed it to happened and condoned the attempted cover up. If we had accepted our penalty as a necessary deterrent to other clubs trying the same path, we could have recovered from our malaise and accepted the new way of doing business and a path back to success much earlier, by accepting our culpability and therefore a lesser penalty.

We did the wrong thing, we should have been punished. At the time the AFL went OTT due to our intransigence, I have learned to accept that cannot be undone.

I guess the difference is, I knew we had done the wrong thing, not sure some * supporters will ever be able to admit it. When they can stop blaming external enforcement agencies, maybe they will find some peace with this part of their history. Stupid comments like that from their previous captain today are better left to conversations with friends, not social media and public consumption. They got off lightly, time to let it go.

We can take comfort in the fact that *FC's victim mentality will do them far more damage over the next decade than the AFL's penalties ever could.

 

[BluStreak]

Apparently it's the AFL's fault that Essendope started injecting its players. What is wrong with some people? Too many preservatives in the food they eat? The hole in the ozone layer is melting their brain?

While I hold Essendone fully responsible for the injections, AD did whatever he could to subvert the process (once it came to light) without being overt about it.

 

[Jimmae]

Nominations for AFL/VFL administrators who were good at their job? Cue cricket noises... Easiest gig in the universe and exceptionally well paid. Australian rules is the opiate of the fans. Opium dens at the 'G. I'd like to see that.

It's true that executive pay has been on the rise in the AFL, but so have been the results. I do however think the salary level is not commensurate with the current talent in the position (though not for lack of effort).

Also, a timely reminder that a position on the AFL commission is unpaid.

EDIT: a correction, the salary was $20,000 pa as of 2012, and Fitzpatrick declined to receive it.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Did I hear correctly the new AFL commissioner is a Carlton supporter??

Bodes well

 

[thylacine60]

So was Ian Collins.

 

[agro]

Yep, suffered a severe bout of it myself for about 15 years after we were heavily penalised for salary cap breaches.

Now I redirect my anger at the people in the club that both allowed it to happened and condoned the attempted cover up. If we had accepted our penalty as a necessary deterrent to other clubs trying the same path, we could have recovered from our malaise and accepted the new way of doing business and a path back to success much earlier, by accepting our culpability and therefore a lesser penalty.

We did the wrong thing, we should have been punished. At the time the AFL went OTT due to our intransigence, I have learned to accept that cannot be undone.

I guess the difference is, I knew we had done the wrong thing, not sure some * supporters will ever be able to admit it. When they can stop blaming external enforcement agencies, maybe they will find some peace with this part of their history. Stupid comments like that from their previous captain today are better left to conversations with friends, not social media and public consumption. They got off lightly, time to let it go.

I agree with most of what you said - except for the intransigence bit.

If you recall on that fateful night at Moonee Valley racecourse- the good Members of the club voted out John Elliott and his administration that were responsible for our systemic salary cap rorting.

Then the new board led by Ian Collins went to the AFL with clean hands and actually made more admissions to the commission.

Then the AFL Commission proceeded to napalm us to the point of extermination.

Ron Evans and Andrew Demetriou went to great lengths to explain how heinous our crimes were and how we should have been punished and in fact letting us know that "we had got off lightly".

Compare and contrast to Essendon's behaviour during this Drugs scandal - avoiding responsibility, deflecting blame, delaying, destroying evidence and finally the AFL's behaviour in saying how much they regretted having to punish (might I say lightly) Essendon.

I'm not for one minute saying Carlton didn't deserve what they got and I'm also a member that voted Elliott out and was prepared to stand by my club whilst we took responsibility for our crimes as opposed to the serial deniers and Kool-Aid drinkers at Essendon and all their sycophantic media supporters.


The hypocrisy and contrast to Carltons treatment over the years has been galling.

 

[thylacine60]

Er, sticky ^^^^^^. Message ends.

 

[RazorRay]

Hi fellow Blue Baggers, I am new to the Big Footy app. having only downloaded it today. Any hints or tips about using the site would be greatly appreciated.



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Navara79]

Hi fellow Blue Baggers, I am new to the Big Footy app. having only downloaded it today. Any hints or tips about using the site would be greatly appreciated.



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

First rule about big footy is that you don't talk about footy

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Hi fellow Blue Baggers, I am new to the Big Footy app. having only downloaded it today. Any hints or tips about using the site would be greatly appreciated.



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

If you go to the Carlton board there are some stickies that explain stuff, might have to click stickied threads at the top of the Carlton Board page below Blue Room, Players etc.

But no one reads that crap anyway. Screw the "rules".

Just post yourself "in" the Rumours Discussion thread (aka the banter/pun thread amirite Aphrodite), the General AFL Discussion Thread, the Preseason training thread and the list management thread. From there you'll meet the characters (steer clear of thylacine60) you'll get the hang of it.

Don't start any threads unless you have fancy Excel graphs or a hip new idea.

Hint: there is probably already a thread on any topic you think of, so search before starting a new thread.

 

[Jabba73]

Hi fellow Blue Baggers, I am new to the Big Footy app. having only downloaded it today. Any hints or tips about using the site would be greatly appreciated.



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Welcome, abandon all hope.

There should be some cake left in the fridge. Avoid the green one, the label says zucchini but the truth is it was vanilla cake 3 weeks ago and no one bothered to throw it out.

About 73.86% of facts on here are lies and the other half are made up.

Good luck.

 

[thylacine60]

^^^^^^^
sticky date