General AFL thread 2016

[Saintos The ITK]

I'd forgotten about the circle of friendship or whatever such bulldarrie It was called.

 

[StCicatriz]

On a complete different topic: Scott Watters.

I was overseas during his appointment and from a distance he seemed okay.

But as he only lasted the two years (of a three year contract?), he obviously was not.

Plus a few posters here have made uncomplimentary comments about him.

So I'm curious:

Why'd he get the flick?

And why is Richo so much better?

because he wouldnt listen to anyone and wanted to do what ever he wanted

when the President and by extension the board, tell you to sit down, shut the **** up and do what they say. 99% people will do that. the 1% that dont get the sack.

he got the sack.

 

[gringo2011]

On a complete different topic: Scott Watters.

I was overseas during his appointment and from a distance he seemed okay.

But as he only lasted the two years (of a three year contract?), he obviously was not.

Plus a few posters here have made uncomplimentary comments about him.

So I'm curious:

Why'd he get the flick?

And why is Richo so much better?

He was a really weird cat Watters. I spoke to him when my boy was playing against his and he was watching his sons game with about an hour and a half to go before an Etihad match. He came across as a bit like he didn't give a **** from that but from what I heard he was like a rebellious school boy when dealing with the board and club administrators. I think he just believed he should run his own ship and unless you have runs on the board as far as coaching goes it doesn't go down well.

 

[cartel]

From the outside, Richo has been a strong uniting force between the players.

Watters was seemingly the opposite. In retrospect it was clearly a difficult prospect for a rookie coach taking over a list about to fall off a cliff and with a core group of veterans that were completely devoted to the previous coach.

I've said before that it speaks volumes that Watters hasn't managed to get another AFL job, while Leppitsch, Neeld, Sanderson, McCartney et al have. Clearly there are further issues that haven't been put out completely in the public domain but are well known within the AFL.

 

[Louis Slungpue]

Gotta say it's been another monumental failure from the messiah dodoro, picking up a midget half back flanker with number 1 who could've been available at a pick in the 60s never heard of Ridley and begley most likely park footballers Mutch and Clarke are both awful picks to

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

All bullshit ( group hugs, US trips ) and no substance from what i can gather.

He pretty much alienated everyone at the club outside of a group of the younger players.

Had he stayed we would have had a mass walkout of footy Dept staff, admin staff & a few players too.

Roo would be in black & white & Joey probably just ending his doping ban.

He would have been sacked months earlier but we had to wait for the AFL to approve the $$$ to give him the flick & pay him out.


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[SaintsSeptember]

He pretty much alienated everyone at the club outside of a group of the younger players.

Had he stayed we would have had a mass walkout of footy Dept staff, admin staff & a few players too.

Roo would be in black & white & Joey probably just ending his doping ban.

He would have been sacked months earlier but we had to wait for the AFL to approve the $$$ to give him the flick & pay him out.


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However he didn't do a particularly good job of developing the young players. Just made them like him.

 

[gringo2011]

However he didn't do a particularly good job of developing the young players. Just made them like him.

He was on SEN the other day and took credit for Seb Ross and Newnes getting drafted, I know Jack Steven liked him because he played him over some of the older players. His biggest failing was more to underestimate how bad our list was and bring in guys like Maister and co when we should have gone to the draft or played the old guys we had.

 

[Hayes4PM]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-11-25/tight-at-the-top-recruiters-reveal-their-no1-pick

Club 6 Will Setterfield
"Because of injuries, he's a player who hasn't had a lot of exposure. He's got so much scope in all areas of the ground, so he can play in a number of spots. He's a bit taller than McCluggage, which helps, but for me it would be a choice out of those two. McGrath is a future captain and is attractive in terms of the defensive foundations in his game. But I like Setterfield the most."

Which flog dog of a recruiter said Setterfield?!

 

[freebloke]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-11-25/tight-at-the-top-recruiters-reveal-their-no1-pick

Club 6 Will Setterfield
"Because of injuries, he's a player who hasn't had a lot of exposure. He's got so much scope in all areas of the ground, so he can play in a number of spots. He's a bit taller than McCluggage, which helps, but for me it would be a choice out of those two. McGrath is a future captain and is attractive in terms of the defensive foundations in his game. But I like Setterfield the most."

Which flog dog of a recruiter said Setterfield?!

Darymple probably... [emoji12]

 

[Diehard Saint]

He was on SEN the other day and took credit for Seb Ross and Newnes getting drafted, I know Jack Steven liked him because he played him over some of the older players. His biggest failing was more to underestimate how bad our list was and bring in guys like Maister and co when we should have gone to the draft or played the old guys we had.

In retrospect he was the "right" coach at the time purely because it protected Richo coming in too early at a time when we really were bad. Because Richo came in at rock bottom it bought him more time to show what he can actually do. He would have been under more pressure I think.

So there was a silver lining to his tenure, but purely by luck rather than design.

 

[Joffaboy]

Remember Mark Fine demanding Watters go and then also suggesting Alan Richardson be given the job.
Thought WTF are you on about Finey, then got a PM from someone very close to the club and told me about what Watters had done and the chaos he caused.
So Finey was dead right. Always wondered about Watters when he started looking at all these so so West Aussies.
Obviously wasnt up to it. Bad mistake by the admin, but havent put a foot wrong since

 

[sunny3193]

Many thanks for your responses re Watters.

Glad I've got a better understanding of the man.

In comparison, Richo walks on water.

 

[StKing11]

If you're looking for a bit of a laugh then check out MMM's attempt at revising the 2013 draft order.

http://www.triplem.com.au/melbourne/sport/afl/news/2016/11/2013-afl-draft-revised-top-10

Our own Jack Billings has been dumped out of the top 10, yet they've got Tom Boyd at 3 ahead of the likes of Merrett and Kelly

They've also got McDonald, Sheed and Kade Kolo in the top 10 ahead of Billings, I'd even make the case for Dunstan to be in there ahead of some of those blokes.

 

[sammm]

Many thanks for your responses re Watters.

Glad I've got a better understanding of the man.

In comparison, Richo walks on water.

There was also things that watters did such as:
Sign an assistant coach without discussions with management
Brought in Ahmed Saad for a game at the last minute giving no notication to his assistant coaches
Go on SEN stating all sorts of things only the day before he was sacked

Etc

 

[JG22]

He was on SEN the other day and took credit for Seb Ross and Newnes getting drafted, I know Jack Steven liked him because he played him over some of the older players. His biggest failing was more to underestimate how bad our list was and bring in guys like Maister and co when we should have gone to the draft or played the old guys we had.

Juggernaut

 

[gringo2011]

There was also things that watters did such as:
Sign an assistant coach without discussions with management
Brought in Ahmed Saad for a game at the last minute giving no notication to his assistant coaches
Go on SEN stating all sorts of things only the day before he was sacked

Etc

Yeah that last interview after the club told him to keep things in house was one of the more bizarre actions when he knew he was on a warning. You couldn't work out his motivation unless it was a power play or something.

 

[karaoke]

http://www.footyalmanac.com.au/home-bias-in-afl-umpiring-the-10-year-tables/

Home bias in AFL umpiring: the 10 year tables

Umpiring, far from being neutral, shows an endemic bias towards Home teams in every situation.

In general when Victorian sides play away they face less bias than when Non-Victorian sides play away.

Total games between Victorian and Non-Victorian teams show a slight positive bias towards Victorian teams, however when games involving the West Coast Eagles are excluded this bias becomes substantial.

The Eagles games reveal substantial positive bias whether they play home or away.

 

[Highlander35]

Got to say. If you look across the rookie lists, a small handful of delisted players, and a few new retirees, there's a not bad footy side there.

Fisher, Dal Santo, Schultz, Petrie, Edwards, Gwilt, McKernan, Mzungu, O'Shea, Richards, Brown, Bartel, Grimes, Barrett, Woodward, Minson...

Not necessarily AFL quality just by themselves, but none of them would be "out of place" on a senior list.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Hmm, I'm a bit concerned by Jack Steven's interest in the magpies...

 

[Keg on legs]

Hmm, I'm a bit concerned by Jack Steven's interest in the magpies...

He's poisoning it.

 

[austinnn]

I am a bit concerned that there are so many pretty decent AFL players getting delisted and not picked up as the churn seems to be faster than ever.

If we take the players from our club as an example: Lee, Eli, Curren, Shenton, Murdoch, Saunders, etc - all could really thrive in the right environment, plus players from other clubs like O'Shea and Grimes, the list goes on.

The best result is that these players stay in the local leagues and enhance the quality of the 2nd tier comps, but I don't know much about salary structure for AFL players and VFL/SANFL/WAFL/etc players; how they differ, if they're attractive for the pro sportsperson...

It worries me that young potential players will look at the amount of opportunity (18x42 = 756 players in total at any one time) and see how ruthless clubs are being these days with players with imperfections and think twice about an AFL career.

Does anyone have thoughts about this? (rather than "You worry too much")

 

[Nutsngum]

I am a bit concerned that there are so many pretty decent AFL players getting delisted and not picked up as the churn seems to be faster than ever.

If we take the players from our club as an example: Lee, Eli, Curren, Shenton, Murdoch, Saunders, etc - all could really thrive in the right environment, plus players from other clubs like O'Shea and Grimes, the list goes on.

The best result is that these players stay in the local leagues and enhance the quality of the 2nd tier comps, but I don't know much about salary structure for AFL players and VFL/SANFL/WAFL/etc players; how they differ, if they're attractive for the pro sportsperson...

It worries me that young potential players will look at the amount of opportunity (18x42 = 756 players in total at any one time) and see how ruthless clubs are being these days with players with imperfections and think twice about an AFL career.

Does anyone have thoughts about this? (rather than "You worry too much")

Everytime I hear people use the excuse of "TOO MANY TEAMS DILUTES THE TALENTS!!! REMOVE SOME THAT ARENT MY TEAM" It makes me roll my eyes so hard. There are plenty of players like the ones you mentioned who are missing out due to too much top end talent.

One of the problems is a lack of emphasis upon state and local leagues being a worthy endeavour for people. Being a VFL player should be a major accomplishment but its seen as more "aint good enough for the big league" kind of shit.

 

[Sir Skid]

I believe that each year we'll see better players with more talent will miss out as the Academies ramp up and the pool of talent is bigger. As an example, GWS is purging several who can't get games each year who are being snapped up by other clubs. Aka Carlton. We traded for Steele to get him off their hands. Freo got Cam McCarthy too.

Unfortunately none of ours did get picked up which is a bit sad but can be looked at a number of ways. Too me it says our talent level was still below the perceived value of what was on offer elsewhere at the time but improved again with who we brought in.

When we are trading players out and 1 or 2 of the players we delist get picked up we'll be at a competitive standard. We're not far off now though and imo next year will tip the scales.
Just 3 years ago imo we could have let any player in our top 15 to 22 go and I seriously doubt a single one would have gotten picked up by anyone such was the state of our list. They certainly would not have resulted in a trade pick coming back to help us replenish talent. Now this year that was the case with imo somewhere in the 25th to 35th best. A good sign we're making solid list management decisions.

Next year we'll be fielding several enquiries for players not getting a go at AFL level and player/s asking to be traded for personal opportunities. As others have already said Billy, to name only one could be traded out as surplus to us but meeting a genuine need of another club where he can get more game time. This churn is what will bring on the sustainability of our list long term. It can be used to combat the inevitable salary cap squeeze later on too.

Who wouldn't love to see us (every year) assist another desperate club like we did with the Hawks this year. Cats desperately need to trade a first rounder in. If we finish 4 to 6 we have a lowend 1st rounder in the right range for Ameet to be in play and graciously field their request for assistance given a big win for us obviously. Billy plus a 1st for a jet mid for instance and we still have two 1st rounders in play. We have options to bring in 2 jets or just the one big fish in 2017 an take the other 1st round pick to the draft and spread the age group to protect the future state of our list.

Exciting times!
Look out, the Saints are coming through!

 

[cartel]

I am a bit concerned that there are so many pretty decent AFL players getting delisted and not picked up as the churn seems to be faster than ever.

If we take the players from our club as an example: Lee, Eli, Curren, Shenton, Murdoch, Saunders, etc - all could really thrive in the right environment, plus players from other clubs like O'Shea and Grimes, the list goes on.

The best result is that these players stay in the local leagues and enhance the quality of the 2nd tier comps, but I don't know much about salary structure for AFL players and VFL/SANFL/WAFL/etc players; how they differ, if they're attractive for the pro sportsperson...

It worries me that young potential players will look at the amount of opportunity (18x42 = 756 players in total at any one time) and see how ruthless clubs are being these days with players with imperfections and think twice about an AFL career.

Does anyone have thoughts about this? (rather than "You worry too much")

I think players like you have mentioned can sometimes earn more playing as a sort of marquee player for big local metro clubs or country than playing VFL.

The local clubs can also link them with employment to aid in the transition of the pro sports environment.

Plus local footy would be a lot more relaxed and probably enjoyable than Vfl.

I actually think a small raise in second tier salaries would do a lot more good for the game at the higher level than yet another afl player increase.

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