General AFL Thread

[IllBeTheJudge]

Just to put Adam Goodes' perspective under the spotlight for a moment....

Nick Riewoldt gets booed at just about every away game we play.... What if Nick chose to interpret that as people hating his German heritage?

Akermanis used to get booed - his red hair & loud mouth?

Lance Franklin always gets booed - is it because he's a gun with an arrogant strut which puts people offside or the colour of his skin? I definitely say its the arrogant strut

People boo for a whole range of reasons.... personally, I think people boo Adam Goodes now because they know it pisses him off & gets to him. If thats racist, then Adam Goodes is racist for assuming that all white people in the crowd are booing him because he's black, and that simply IS NOT THE CASE!

I think you're way off tangent.

1. nobody I can recall (and certainly nobody you have mentioned) has been booed the way Goodes has been booed this season, almost on a weekly basis. With every touch, every time he is near the ball.
2. I think half the time with Riewoldt it's our own supporters saying "Roooo". I hear that at times at our home games. He might get booed when he gets a 50/50 free kick, but is that booing him or the umpire?
3. Akermanis was pure pantomime, and he played up to it. Might have even enjoyed it.
4. I can't recall audibly hearing over the telecast (due to my location I only get to one or two live games a year) people booing Franklin.

But all of that is beside the point. The current issue isn't about Riewoldt, Aker, Buddy, Carey, or anyone else that got booed, gets booed, or will get booed.

 

[Sippa]

I agree with the principal of this, as my previous post attests to. But you still have to take the man's feelings into account.

If you say something to someone and it offends them, even if you didn't mean anything by it, do you say get stuffed and keep doing it? Or do you say sorry and not continue doing it?

He can be upset because he's getting booed because it's hurtful to realise people don't like you, but he's actually just offending the whole of Australian public by insinuating we are all racist.. It works both ways

Being accused of false racism is nearly as big an insult as racism itself.

 

[Rors]

I think you're way off tangent.

1. nobody I can recall (and certainly nobody you have mentioned) has been booed the way Goodes has been booed this season, almost on a weekly basis. With every touch, every time he is near the ball.
2. I think half the time with Riewoldt it's our own supporters saying "Roooo". I hear that at times at our home games. He might get booed when he gets a 50/50 free kick, but is that booing him or the umpire?
3. Akermanis was pure pantomime, and he played up to it. Might have even enjoyed it.
4. I can't recall audibly hearing over the telecast (due to my location I only get to one or two live games a year) people booing Franklin.

But all of that is beside the point. The current issue isn't about Riewoldt, Aker, Buddy, Carey, or anyone else that got booed, gets booed, or will get booed.

Hey, I'm just putting it out there. It's how the individual wants to interpret it

 

[IllBeTheJudge]

He can be upset because he's getting booed because it's hurtful to realise people don't like you, but he's actually just offending the whole of Australian public by insinuating we are all racist.. It works both ways

Being accused of false racism is nearly as big an insult as racism itself.

Not all of the Australian public is booing him.

Besides, even if he is insinuating that all of Australia is racist, personally I don't think he's too far wide of the mark.

As I have said in another thread (which not surprisingly is now closed), I think most countries are racist to an extent. Racism tends to be the realm of the majority of the population of any given nation. I've been lucky enough to travel enough, and be the minority group, to see it first hand.

Like I have also said, I don't think the booing of Goodes is first and foremost racially motivated. Although several responses on BF (not necessarily yours) is starting to make me have my doubts.

 

[IllBeTheJudge]

Hey, I'm just putting it out there. It's how the individual wants to interpret it

It seemed like you were saying, other people in football get/got booed, so it's open season on Adam Goodes. Apologies if this was not your point

 

[SaintLex]

Just to put Adam Goodes' perspective under the spotlight for a moment....

Nick Riewoldt gets booed at just about every away game we play.... What if Nick chose to interpret that as people hating his German heritage?

Akermanis used to get booed - his red hair & loud mouth?

Lance Franklin always gets booed - is it because he's a gun with an arrogant strut which puts people offside or the colour of his skin? I definitely say its the arrogant strut

People boo for a whole range of reasons.... personally, I think people boo Adam Goodes now because they know it pisses him off & gets to him. If thats racist, then Adam Goodes is racist for assuming that all white people in the crowd are booing him because he's black, and that simply IS NOT THE CASE!

That's crap, Rors. No player gets the same treatment that Goodes does week in, week out. Definitely not Riewoldt or Franklin (I can't attest to Aker).

Maybe some are booing because of the way he plays, we can't discount that. But they're only doing it because of the crowd mentality that started when he became a very outspoken member of the Aboriginal community.

You can't hide behind this justification. It has no logical reasoning behind it. If it were true, he would have been booed long before he became AOTY, but he wasn't... not to this extent.

You're re-writing history here.

 

[Defacto]

Not interesting for what it says as much as who wrote it.

There's no such thing as a homogenous view, despite what the mainstream media would have us all believe.

Besides, Rita's a saint!

who wrote it? i thought Rita was a hawk

 

[gilbert the best]

He can be upset because he's getting booed because it's hurtful to realise people don't like you, but he's actually just offending the whole of Australian public by insinuating we are all racist.. It works both ways

Being accused of false racism is nearly as big an insult as racism itself.

How true, good post.

 

[AuntieBarrels]

Booing comes with playing professional AFL. It is an inevitable part of the game. If you act like a dickhead on field, you will get boo'ed for it.

I can't believe that 99% of the AFL media is saying that the booing of Goodes is racist. There's no way this is racist. You don't see other Indegenous players getting boo'ed by the crowds. Just to name a few, there are players like Rioli, Edwards, Jetta, Betts and many more to name that don't get boo'ed. If it was racist, wouldn't these guys be getting boo'ed as well?

On the other hand, Lindsay Thomas also gets boo'ed because he's a little prick on the field, the occasional dirty act, and the constant flopping and diving to get awarded free kicks. He gets boo'ed because he's being a flog. Same goes with Adam Goodes, yes he's a champion of the game, he's done great things for the Indegenous community, but this doesn't just simply erase the fact that he has been very unprofessional on field. The diving, the sliding, his unbelievable protection by the AFL (head high bump on Selwood that wasn't even reprimanded), and that incident with Taylor Hunt (punching the groin, whatever it was). There are clear reasons as to why he is getting boo'ed. The "war cry" or whatever you want to call is also another prime example, it's just a flog act. As Sam Newman said on the Footy Show a couple of months ago, "as an Australian of the Year, you should be uniting people, rather than dividing them."

 

[Strahany]

Except you seem to be willfully ignoring statements like:

I don't believe the reason that Goodes is more criticised than other Indigenous players is because he is more open about race issues, it's the way he goes about it that is the main cause. You can campaign for the improvement of rights/quality of life etc for one group without trying to claw others down. Yes, atrocities were committed against indigenous people of Australia, but no one is denying that (except for some idiotic numpties, perhaps). But, just because some white people happened to commit these atrocities to people in his ancestral past, does not automatically implicate white people as a whole. Such a generalisation of any group is on racial terms, and should not be accepted.
You can discuss what happened in the past, and what is unfortunately continuing to happen at the hands of the minority in Australia society, without having to attack the "opposition populous". I liken the way he has approached this to the way your typical feminists approach gender rights - most people who identify as feminists are not campaigning for gender equality, but for female superiority, and in doing so, they attack men at every turn. Now, whilst Goodes is not campaigning for "indigenous superiority" by any means, he is certainly attacking white people unnecessarily.
That's what I object to, and what I believe that most people who have taken issue with him object to, as well. And, like I said earlier, some people will have racial motivations to attack Goodes (either completely or partially racial), but these people are not the majority, hence the incessant playing of the race card by SJW's is unnecessary.

All he's doing is pointing out a problem when people would prefer him to stay quiet and not rock the boat. People have a problem with Goodes because he's pointing out a structural problem in this country and that makes a lot of people very uncomfortable. You do it right here in your post when you complained about being "lumped in with every other white Australian" and then talk about how he's being self-righteous and conceited. Instead of accepting that this country has a problem you just deflect the blame back onto the victim.

Do you really think that 13 yer old girl is the only time Goodes has encountered racism in his life?

Whether you like it or not, you are apart of Australia's racist problem because you are a member of Australian society. Even people that aren't racist have a role to play in this but at the moment all you (and others on here) are doing is making excuses for other people that allows racism to continue in one of its many forms.

Where have I ever said that Goodes should stay quiet? Indigenous people still experience vilification in this country, as do other racial minorities, for that matter. I know that there are plenty of racist Australians, but there are plenty of Australians that are capable of forming rational thought and are not racist.
Again, I will emphasise the fact that it's not the meaning behind his message, its his delivery, and the collateral damage he is seemingly intentionally causing as a result.

I complain about being "lumped in with every other white Australian" because I know that myself, and many others, do not share the views of the racist minority that are responsible for attacks he has received throughout his life, both inside and outside of football. I take exception to the fact that he is hypocritically making a racist statement in retaliation to being subjected to racism himself. Hence why I also have issues with the self-righteous stance he is taking, despite stooping to the very level of the people he is condemning.

Saying that I, or anyone else for that matter, is responsible for racism in this country is absurd. In what way have I contributed to it? I was born into this society; I did not construct it. I also happen to acknowledge racism's unfortunate prevalence, and try to contest it whenever possible. How that allots me into the same grouping of people that deride Goodes and others of minority ethnicities is beyond me. That train of thought is nothing more than a trending topic with absolutely zero substance, or basis in fact.

 

[Simple Jack]

I agree with the principal of this, as my previous post attests to. But you still have to take the man's feelings into account.

If you say something to someone and it offends them, even if you didn't mean anything by it, do you say get stuffed and keep doing it? Or do you say sorry and not continue doing it?

I, like any decent person say sorry and not continue. But that's probably not a realistic request when directed at a mob sporting crowd. Just ask Milne or Roo or Buddy or any other of a host of other players who cop it regularly.

You can't discount one persons experience because someone else had a 'worse' but similar experience. Using that logic: because your mum wasn't hung from a tree she wasn't the target of 'real' racism and her experience doesn't count. It just doesn't work that way. You can't measure the amount of hurt inflicted upon someone according to some arbitrary scale of ever increasing badness.

I'm not discounting his personal experience, I'm discounting the fact that this is being portrayed as a serious issue and the inevitable patting themselves on the back the media will do after the booing stops as if they've "solved racism". There are so many legitimate racial issues that need to be focused on and dealt with. This isn't one of them.

Goodes hasn't tried to divide anyone. All he's done is point out a few inconvenient facts about the country and social issues. Instead of looking inwards at itself white Australia is having a breakdown and is blaming the victim.

So now you're allowed to go to the footy and boo any player you like...except Adam Goodes because then you'll be racist.

That's not division?

Also, don't use the term 'SJW' if you want to be taken seriously in any way.

Clear and succinct term that describes the horde of morons whose understanding of any social issue extends exactly as far as the evening news tells them about it.

I'm a supporter of a things like Indigenous round, Dreamtime at the G and all the build up that goes with that. They recognise and emphasise the tremendous impact indigenous players have had on our game. I have no issue with players taking a stand against racial vilification as a few, including Goodes have before, but this reaction to Goodes getting booed and a special no booing Goodes rule is not helpful in any way.

 

[Rors]

That's crap, Rors. No player gets the same treatment that Goodes does week in, week out. Definitely not Riewoldt or Franklin (I can't attest to Aker).

Maybe some are booing because of the way he plays, we can't discount that. But they're only doing it because of the crowd mentality that started when he became a very outspoken member of the Aboriginal community.

You can't hide behind this justification. It has no logical reasoning behind it. If it were true, he would have been booed long before he became AOTY, but he wasn't... not to this extent.

You're re-writing history here.

I actually think thats crap SaintLex. Goodes, as a player, is very polarizing. He's a genius, but he has minor flaws, ie: sliding with his knees, acting for free kicks etc. Goodes was getting booed before he became AOTY, he also got booed after that, but not at the same level as at present. He then on record as stating he doesnt know why he gets booed. Now everyone boos him because they know it pisses him off & puts him off his game.

If an opponent goes out of his way to constantly sledge Goodes (without any racist remarks), does that make the opponent racist because he's only sledging Goodes? Say the opponent calls Goodes a sook all game, is that racist? No. If Goodes wants to interpret that as racism, then well.....

 

[SaintLex]

He can be upset because he's getting booed because it's hurtful to realise people don't like you, but he's actually just offending the whole of Australian public by insinuating we are all racist.. It works both ways

Being accused of false racism is nearly as big an insult as racism itself.

He's never insinuated that every individual Australian is a racist, that's ridiculous.

He used his AOTY award as a platform to discuss the atrocities committed by White Australia to the Indigenous people of the land. And how can anyone deny him that? This whole country is built on a bloody history, the least we could do is acknowledge that. Instead we have people like Andrew Bolt writing opinion pieces in the HS, telling him these acts of violence have been greatly exaggerated.

It was never a personal attack on Australians. He wanted an acknowledgement that this was Indigenous land, and education about our past.

Why were people offended that he had the gall to talk about our brutal history, if they knew they themselves weren't racist? We either deny it happened or we stand with him. Only racists deny.

 

[jonathons11]

All reasons why it is happening aside I would hope that people begin to understand the toll it is taking on Adam Goodes and be a decent human being and stop.
It is all fun if they can handle it (not that I have ever booed anyone) but when it becomes such a big psychological issue it needs to end. Especially for an AFL great in Adam Goodes.

 

[IllBeTheJudge]

I can't help but think of two questions that stand out in my mind:

For the booers, what's the end game? If it's just to put him off his game, why doesn't everyone on the opposition get booed? Of every opposition?

Also, what's it going to take for it all to stop? You can cite acts on the field as a reason to boo, but surely the act has to happen first? Right now, he's booed without doing anything.

OK so that's 4 questions ... maybe 5
The AFLPA have met and discussed the issue. Do you think that they won't stand up for one of their own? I can see this reaching a point where a mass walk-off takes place, of both teams. Who do you get to boo then?

Sadly, I think it's increasingly likely that Goodes will walk away from the game, purely to prevent such an occurrence from happening.

 

[StFly]

She was the face of racism exactly because she didn't know she was being racist. She is a symptom of just how racist Australia is and just how blind it is to it as an issue.

She was the face because Goodes, who by his previous admission had ignored the exact same insults previously, specifically took issue with the fact that the insults came from a 13 year old girl, again by his own admission.

I don't even know what point you are trying to make talking about ageism but, comparing the two in this situation is ridiculous.

I bring up ageism because, as above, that is the very defiintion of discrimination; to discriminate against age, sex, religion, etc.

By his own admission had he ignored the ape monkey calls he had heard previously, assumedly from a range of ages and both male and female.
By his own admission he, as quoted, stated it was not what was said it was who had said it, meaning he specifically took issue with the 13 year old girl being a 13 year old girl.

Is he absolved from the fact that he discriminated against her;
Age or;
Gender
Simply because she called him an ape and was racist?

Goodes is entirely in his right to act insulted if he's insulted, that does not mean he's not a dog of a bloke who empowered himself in the argument of Australia's inherent racism by throwing as 13 year old girl under the bus because she was a 13 year old girl, and that people dismiss it simply because she was racist is as abhorrent as her being racist in that moment.

Also, as an FYI, the mother of the girl stated at the time that Vic Pol and security Staff interviewed her without any guardian present, which last time I checked was also illegal, so the girl was further infringed upon but also got passed off as a dirty racist once again because Goodes discriminated against her.

You can applaud the fact that Goodes is attempting to add his voice to the inequalities that indigenous people of Australia still suffer whilst simulatneously thinking that his decision making in individual instances is poor and he may be of poor character. I choose not to accept it's ridiculous that both sides were in the wrong, and that instead it's far more likely given what was stated and Goodes history of rather inflammatory comments regarding his race and his place in Australia.

 

[Rors]

At the end of the day, on a personal level, I will only boo a player if they have done something untoward within a game.

I have booed Adam Goodes back in 2013 (SCG game) because he slid into one of our players with his knees (pretty sure it was either Minch or Joey).

This does not make me racist. It's me saying "thats a dog act & i disapprove of it & I'm gonna let you know about it everytime you go near the ball for the rest of the game"

Would I boo him again for no reason? No I wouldnt. Would I boo him if he slid into one of ours players again or spent an entire game acting, ducking & feigning for free kicks? Maybe I would.

Do I boo him because of the colour of his skin....? **** NO! Of course not!

 

[IllBeTheJudge]

I, like any decent person say sorry and not continue. But that's probably not a realistic request when directed at a mob sporting crowd. Just ask Milne or Roo or Buddy or any other of a host of other players who cop it regularly.

So you're saying you can't be decent because the bloke standing next to you isn't being decent?

 

[Moral Decay]

You know the worst part about this? The absolutely ridiculous suggestion that keeps getting repeated that:
If anyone considers something as racist, it's racist. It's complete horseshit and it belittles the suffering of people actually subjected to racism.

If say Eddie Betts punched some opposition player Barry Hall style and then was repeatedly booed and said "I'm offended by the booing and consider it racist" THAT DOES NOT ******* MAKE IT RACIST. And now the media are focusing on this stupid thing instead of actual racial issues like disproportionate imprisonment, job opportunities, life expectancy, job opportunities etc.

My mother is coloured and lived in South Africa during Apartheid. Her brothers and sisters and parents (stepfather) who she lived with were black. She has been subjected to actual, real, important racism not this SJW media bullshit. She is disgusted by the whole situation but not at the people booing, at the way Goodes goes out of his way to divide rather than unite and how quickly he jumps to play the race card on issues like this. Especially considering he personally has had a more privileged life than the majority of people of any race in the country.

I defer to her significantly more informed judgement.

Probably the most adult view I've read so far.

For the record, I've been the little fat kid, the four eyed kid, the too smart kid, the aussie kid in England, the pommy kid in Australia, France and Italy, the white kid in the most Asian areas of Birmingham. I've been the white man in India and taxi driver in Melbourne for 6 years.

As a cabbie I was vilified for being every race under the sun except being Asian, I was racially abused by white men, black, Asian, male, female, adults and children and my view is that people lash out because they can, particularly if they think they can get away with it, if it is culturally acceptable. I also had nearly every culture in Australia, claim me as one of their own.

The most ingrained and vicious racism I have experienced is as a white man in India. The rest was people looking to get at me in a way they thought would hurt.

We all experience abuse, we all have a history where bad shit happened and if by any chance there are people on here that haven't then good luck to them.

The substantive issue of whether Adam Goodes is experiencing racism should be defined as if he has either suffered from exclusion, denial of opportunity or legal disadvantage because of his colour, he is being booed, he isn't having people throw bananas at him he isn't being threatened, nor is he being denied access to employment, health care or education.

Adam has decided to be a polemicist, to stand up for his people, to take on a cause, if the reaction he gets isn't the one he was hoping for then he has to take it on the chin, that's what every polemicist wants and looks for, the booing, the hatred validates their opinion of their own superiority and how wrong everyone else is.

While his current experience is cruel, it is far harder to accept that people dislike you for your own sake than the colour of your skin. If people really wanted to hurt him, don't boo, don't cheer, don't take any notice what so ever, he's an aging footballer that is suffering from relevance deprivation syndrome. Just look at Mick Malthouse. Adam either doesn't understand what is happening because he has been a praised and decorated footballer with minimal life experience, he's used to being deferred to, he's used to adulation and now at the end when his powers are waning he doesn't understand his limits; or he really does and is milking it for all it's worth.

 

[dewah07]

All reasons why it is happening aside I would hope that people begin to understand the toll it is taking on Adam Goodes and be a decent human being and stop.
It is all fun if they can handle it (not that I have ever booed anyone) but when it becomes such a big psychological issue it needs to end. Especially for an AFL great in Adam Goodes.

hahaha I couldn't care less I'm going to saints vs swans in a few weeks and booing the crap out of him.

Goodes need to suck it up and be a team player, because if I'm booing Goodes then someone like buddy doesn't get any fan hate at games or any thee swans player.

 

[IllBeTheJudge]

She was the face because Goodes, who by his previous admission had ignored the exact same insults previously, specifically took issue with the fact that the insults came from a 13 year old girl, again by his own admission.



I bring up ageism because, as above, that is the very defiintion of discrimination; to discriminate against age, sex, religion, etc.

By his own admission had he ignored the ape monkey calls he had heard previously, assumedly from a range of ages and both male and female.
By his own admission he, as quoted, stated it was not what was said it was who had said it, meaning he specifically took issue with the 13 year old girl being a 13 year old girl.

Is he absolved from the fact that he discriminated against her;
Age or;
Gender
Simply because she called him an ape and was racist?

Goodes is entirely in his right to act insulted if he's insulted, that does not mean he's not a dog of a bloke who empowered himself in the argument of Australia's inherent racism by throwing as 13 year old girl under the bus because she was a 13 year old girl, and that people dismiss it simply because she was racist is as abhorrent as her being racist in that moment.

Also, as an FYI, the mother of the girl stated at the time that Vic Pol and security Staff interviewed her without any guardian present, which last time I checked was also illegal, so the girl was further infringed upon but also got passed off as a dirty racist once again because Goodes discriminated against her.

You can applaud the fact that Goodes is attempting to add his voice to the inequalities that indigenous people of Australia still suffer whilst simulatneously thinking that his decision making in individual instances is poor and he may be of poor character. I choose not to accept it's ridiculous that both sides were in the wrong, and that instead it's far more likely given what was stated and Goodes history of rather inflammatory comments regarding his race and his place in Australia.

He also publicly called for support for the girl. On the same night

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-25/goodes-gutted-but-places-no-blame/4712772

 

[Barrels]

who wrote it? i thought Rita was a hawk

*badum tish*

No idea what the blokes name is, but the photo is fairly telling...

 

[Periphery]

I don't have the time to properly respond to Strahany , Simple Jack , StFly . But I will say that I disagree with everything you have said and you have all shown a significant lack of knowledge around the issue of social structure and how it relates to racism (amongst other things). Your points are mostly weak, sometimes illogical and often without substance. I suggest you educate yourselves on these topics and do some deep critical thinking about how and why you hold these positions.

All you are doing is adding to the smokescreen of bullshit that racists and idiots hide behind.

 

[IllBeTheJudge]

At the end of the day, on a personal level, I will only boo a player if they have done something untoward within a game.

I have booed Adam Goodes back in 2013 (SCG game) because he slid into one of our players with his knees (pretty sure it was either Minch or Joey).

This does not make me racist. It's me saying "thats a dog act & i disapprove of it & I'm gonna let you know about it everytime you go near the ball for the rest of the game"

Would I boo him again for no reason? No I wouldnt. Would I boo him if he slid into one of ours players again or spent an entire game acting, ducking & feigning for free kicks? Maybe I would.

Do I boo him because of the colour of his skin....? **** NO! Of course not!

I don't think anyone has a problem with this. It's the merciless booing for no particular reason that makes our game (and our fans) look so ugly right now.

NRL board must be having a grand old time.

 

[Rors]

I don't think anyone has a problem with this. It's the merciless booing for no particular reason that makes our game (and our fans) look so ugly right now.

NRL board must be having a grand old time.

FWIW The NRL board must tear their hair out on a daily basis. This thing with the Fafita brothers & their abuse & threats towards the junior referee is an absolute disgrace. One of my clients who's heavily involved with the Rabbitohs told me that they we're saying things like "we're gonna **** you up after the game for that you ****ing piece of shit..." plus a whole lot more....

We think some of the AFL players are stupid as times.... The NRL blokes have them covered in stupidity stakes by a long long way