jason_recliner

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The country is beyond help :(
America is 330,000,000 people. Of course there are problems. I love American food, American culture, American music and my American friends. The bad is FAR outweighed by the good, IMO, and it's one of the greatest countries on earth.
 
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The country is beyond help :(

Why some elements particularly in the press, continue to try and drag us into emulating American political culture is abhorrent and it's only a matter of time imo before the right wing in this country calculate the damage and factor this in to why they were almost wiped out this last Federal election.
 

bungalow_bill

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America is 330,000,000 people. Of course there are problems. I love American food, American culture, American music and my American friends. The bad is FAR outweighed by the good, IMO, and it's one of the greatest countries on earth.

I agree love American culture as well in general. More so the blue states. The bad though comes close at times like this - primarily the gun culture but also the terrible health care system & the deeply rooted racism. Not a fan of capitol punishment either
 
If only the teachers were armed

There are lots of arguments against that:
Most teachers would be horrified at the idea of a loaded gun being kept in the classroom. Or of handling a gun.
Sooner or later, inevitably, a kid or kids would get hold of it. Kids are smart.
The thing is, these attacks are very sudden, unannounced. Imagine the teacher - my gun is locked in the art supplies cupboard!
There would be unintended consequences no doubt.
 
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I remember reading that the USA is the only country (or one of only a few) that didn't largely disarm its population before becoming a democracy. Might have been in one of Steven Pinker's books (excellent btw).

Crazy and shocking that this is so commonplace.
 

Spearman

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I remember reading that the USA is the only country (or one of only a few) that didn't largely disarm its population before becoming a democracy. Might have been in one of Steven Pinker's books (excellent btw).

Crazy and shocking that this is so commonplace.
Late 18th century North America was very different, and the US didn't have a painless birth. There were several mini rebellions going around after the Constitution, endless fights about states' rights, federal powers, taxation. AND the frontier was the western border of most of the original states. There was no way they could disarm.
Then there is the 2nd Amendment. A massive anachronism that is easily pulled out to suit particular political agendas. Very difficult to add or change amendments.
Then there's the cultural heritage of pioneers fighting on the frontiers, fathers teaching sons how to hunt (for food in earlier days), and on and on.
It is massively different from you guys in Aus enacting gun control laws. There's the inertia above and the influential gun industry and pro-gun lobby. Politicians are deeply in their pockets. Even more so now. Back in the gangster era, the Repugs actually enacted anti-machine gun laws. It got flipped into a culture war with the NRA.
Nobody wants to outlaw hunting rifles or target pistols. But a certain segment of political campaigners won't allow even to smallest measures to curb their use. Texas recently passed a law allowing open carry in public without a license. Other mostly GOP hinder attempts to have background checks and red flags for mentally ill people attempting to buy firearms. There's wokeness for you.
It IS insane. But imagine trying to outlaw beer drinking because of drunk drivers killing people. It's hard enough without the political baggage.
 
It IS insane. But imagine trying to outlaw beer drinking because of drunk drivers killing people.

We did introduce law to ban drunk driving then as we got better at testing blood alcohol percentages, set a limit.

The US introduced prohibition, wrote it into the Constitution then repealed it. So, there ya have it. It can be done.

The Eighteenth Amendment (Amendment XVIII) of the United States Constitution established the prohibition of alcohol in the United States. The amendment was proposed by Congress on December 18, 1917, and was ratified by the requisite number of states on January 16, 1919. The Eighteenth Amendment was repealed by the Twenty-first Amendment on December 5, 1933. It is the only amendment to be repealed.
 

Spearman

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We did introduce law to ban drunk driving then as we got better at testing blood alcohol percentages, set a limit.

The US introduced prohibition, wrote it into the Constitution then repealed it. So, there ya have it. It can be done.

The Eighteenth Amendment (Amendment XVIII) of the United States Constitution established the prohibition of alcohol in the United States. The amendment was proposed by Congress on December 18, 1917, and was ratified by the requisite number of states on January 16, 1919. The Eighteenth Amendment was repealed by the Twenty-first Amendment on December 5, 1933. It is the only amendment to be repealed.
Which was a great example of how a knee jerk reaction by a minority with power can screw up society. Bad consequences from that tantrum move.
 

bungalow_bill

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I have a feeling the 2nd amendment being repealed will require another civil war. Although a cold civil war has probably been waged since 1865. Warmed up a bit Jan 6 2021
 
Which was a great example of how a knee jerk reaction by a minority with power can screw up society. Bad consequences from that tantrum move.

The eighteenth amendment that established prohibition was repealed as the 'right' to bear arms should probably also be repealed at this point to cool things down and switch the thinking that it's no longer a protected 'right'. That doesn't mean all weapons should be confiscated or handed in but no ordinary citizen needs an assault rifle / AR-15.
 

Spearman

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I recently heard that a former Chief Justice of the SCOTUS, lifelong Repub., appointed to CJ by rightwinger Nixon, after retiring stated that the 2nd should be gone. This was before the issue got turned into a culture war pawn.
Yes you are correct, they can be repealed. There is always a process. But it takes the political will to do it. Everyone was sick of Prohibition so there probably wasn't much resistance of note. My point before about amendments relates to Americans most likely resisting a repeal, for the reasons stated earlier. It would take a monumental effort on the part of moderates to craft a ready to go gun policy, and convince the conservative base that they were never coming for their recreational weapons. Then, maybe, they can get the citizenry behind it. Otherwise, it would be a nonstarter. My gram was an expert deer and pheasant hunter. My dad got a deer on his last hunt before he moved out of state with his wife and had me. :) They were nowhere near the NRA imbeciles. These are the sort of people that can be convinced to outlaw assault rifles and machine pistols. But not their hunting gear.
Most Americans can probably get behind the assault rifle thing, but the types like Trump's base are too numerous.
For context, the Equal Rights Amendment has been in the pipeline for a hundred years still hasn't passed. You'd think that wouldn't have been a hard pass in the past few decades, but it has.

Actually you got me thinking about the 18th, and the Volstead Act. I wondered HTF they got those passed so easily. The 18th looks like a bait and switch, Congress critters assumed that beer and wine weren't included. But then they overruled a Presidential veto to pass it. I wonder about their motivations. The temperance movement had been bubbling along for a long time. Watch a western and those ladies all dressed in black, parading with a drum are them. Maybe there was a weird mentality going around like the conspiracy thing today. Anyway thanks for sparking that interest. Now I have another time killer at work. ;) :grinv1:
 

jason_recliner

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Late 18th century North America was very different, and the US didn't have a painless birth. There were several mini rebellions going around after the Constitution, endless fights about states' rights, federal powers, taxation. AND the frontier was the western border of most of the original states. There was no way they could disarm.
Then there is the 2nd Amendment. A massive anachronism that is easily pulled out to suit particular political agendas. Very difficult to add or change amendments.
Then there's the cultural heritage of pioneers fighting on the frontiers, fathers teaching sons how to hunt (for food in earlier days), and on and on.
It is massively different from you guys in Aus enacting gun control laws. There's the inertia above and the influential gun industry and pro-gun lobby. Politicians are deeply in their pockets. Even more so now. Back in the gangster era, the Repugs actually enacted anti-machine gun laws. It got flipped into a culture war with the NRA.
Nobody wants to outlaw hunting rifles or target pistols. But a certain segment of political campaigners won't allow even to smallest measures to curb their use. Texas recently passed a law allowing open carry in public without a license. Other mostly GOP hinder attempts to have background checks and red flags for mentally ill people attempting to buy firearms. There's wokeness for you.
It IS insane. But imagine trying to outlaw beer drinking because of drunk drivers killing people. It's hard enough without the political baggage.

Also, gun violence and gun deaths are heavily disproprtionate towards blacks, and therefore many white Americans see it as a black problem, not an American problem. And so still very much want to keep their guns.
 
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The eighteenth amendment that established prohibition was repealed as the 'right' to bear arms should probably also be repealed at this point to cool things down and switch the thinking that it's no longer a protected 'right'. That doesn't mean all weapons should be confiscated or handed in but no ordinary citizen needs an assault rifle / AR-15.

The Americans are almost insane with their laws.

My understanding is that :
It only became illegal to possess a nuclear device when th UN Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons was put in place.
It is illegal to own a guided missile that was designed to attack aircraft, but it in not illegal to own a missile designed for other purposes and subsequently modified.
It is legal to own items such as grenades and rocket launchers.

Individual States have further restrictions , but they don't exactly have border security between states.
 
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Also, gun violence and gun deaths are heavily disproprtionate towards blacks, and therefore many white Americans see it as a black problem, not an American problem. And so still very much want to keep their guns.

Its a socio economic problem.
There are in fact more crimes committed by blacks, due to their family's poverty cycle. They also get involved with gangs, which are armed.
This in turn promotes racism, leads to more incarceration, and more confrontation with Police, which then makes the police appear racist, ( sometimes they are , but you can't judge from the statistics ).
 

bungalow_bill

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I recently heard that a former Chief Justice of the SCOTUS, lifelong Repub., appointed to CJ by rightwinger Nixon, after retiring stated that the 2nd should be gone. This was before the issue got turned into a culture war pawn.
Yes you are correct, they can be repealed. There is always a process. But it takes the political will to do it. Everyone was sick of Prohibition so there probably wasn't much resistance of note. My point before about amendments relates to Americans most likely resisting a repeal, for the reasons stated earlier. It would take a monumental effort on the part of moderates to craft a ready to go gun policy, and convince the conservative base that they were never coming for their recreational weapons. Then, maybe, they can get the citizenry behind it. Otherwise, it would be a nonstarter. My gram was an expert deer and pheasant hunter. My dad got a deer on his last hunt before he moved out of state with his wife and had me. :) They were nowhere near the NRA imbeciles. These are the sort of people that can be convinced to outlaw assault rifles and machine pistols. But not their hunting gear.
Most Americans can probably get behind the assault rifle thing, but the types like Trump's base are too numerous.
For context, the Equal Rights Amendment has been in the pipeline for a hundred years still hasn't passed. You'd think that wouldn't have been a hard pass in the past few decades, but it has.

Actually you got me thinking about the 18th, and the Volstead Act. I wondered HTF they got those passed so easily. The 18th looks like a bait and switch, Congress critters assumed that beer and wine weren't included. But then they overruled a Presidential veto to pass it. I wonder about their motivations. The temperance movement had been bubbling along for a long time. Watch a western and those ladies all dressed in black, parading with a drum are them. Maybe there was a weird mentality going around like the conspiracy thing today. Anyway thanks for sparking that interest. Now I have another time killer at work. ;) :grinv1:

Was wondering the same thing regarding passing the 18th. People love their booze

Saw a crazy stat last night that America has 400 million guns which is equal to 40% of the number of guns worldwide
 
Was wondering the same thing regarding passing the 18th. People love their booze

Saw a crazy stat last night that America has 400 million guns which is equal to 40% of the number of guns worldwide
Yeah but they need them for self-protection...
Any stats on how often guns are used by ordinary Joe Blows for self-protection?
 
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Yeah but they need them for self-protection...
Any stats on how often guns are used by ordinary Joe Blows for self-protection?

Often they don't need to be used.

You don't go out at night in Texas and kick someone's door down to demand their car keys.
 

Spearman

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Was wondering the same thing regarding passing the 18th. People love their booze

Saw a crazy stat last night that America has 400 million guns which is equal to 40% of the number of guns worldwide
That number wouldn't surprise me. I know a group of guys on another forum, outdoor types, that have multiple guns. One guy has a nice collection of WW2 rifles. My uncle and cousins do a lot of hunting, they're rich and bought a huge tract of land in the Rockies to hunt on. They have multiple rifles. My best friend from high school, far from being a rightwing or redneck, (we could have been extras in Dazed and Confused) lives in a semi-rural area between towns and 30 freeway minutes from a city. He's bought some rifles for protection. If I was still there, had the extra cash, I'd probably have my own collection of historical weapons since I'm a history buff and shooting at targets is fun. All of my friends, as kids went out into to countryside plinking things with our BB guns. As a squirt I had a Davy Crockett flintlock that you put caps to get that 'bang'. My dad put me into a father/son gun safety course when I was in junior high. It is a part of the culture of a large swathe of regular Americans.
All of these though are a far cry from urban violence or the NRA extremism. That's where the heavy hardware are.
 
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That number wouldn't surprise me. I know a group of guys on another forum, outdoor types, that have multiple guns. One guy has a nice collection of WW2 rifles. My uncle and cousins do a lot of hunting, they're rich and bought a huge tract of land in the Rockies to hunt on. They have multiple rifles. My best friend from high school, far from being a rightwing or redneck, (we could have been extras in Dazed and Confused) lives in a semi-rural area between towns and 30 freeway minutes from a city. He's bought some rifles for protection. If I was still there, had the extra cash, I'd probably have my own collection of historical weapons since I'm a history buff and shooting at targets is fun. All of my friends, as kids went out into to countryside plinking things with our BB guns. As a squirt I had a Davy Crockett flintlock that you put caps to get that 'bang'. My dad put me into a father/son gun safety course when I was in junior high. It is a part of the culture of a large swathe of regular Americans.
All of these though are a far cry from urban violence or the NRA extremism. That's where the heavy hardware are.

My Dad as a teenager was given something like this.

I think he loaded it up and fired it just the once.

During one of the governments big safety drives he thought he do the right thing and took it to be registered.
They engraved a huge rough as guts number onto the barrel.

An expert years later told him that it'd be worth something if it didn't have the huge ugly number on the barrel.
800px-AllenAndThurberPepperbox.jpg
 

Truckosaurus

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Getting a bit off topic, but I suspect that religious organisations (namely the Southern Baptists and affiliates) probably played a large role in getting Prohibition passed. The sorts that have convinced themselves that all the references to wine in the Bible actually mean non-alcoholic grape juice.
 
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