Gym & Misc General Health and Fitness Thread

[cptkirk]

A lot of the leg press depends on your leg and foot placement

stabilisation demands are also lower as you're in a machine so you will probably get some extra range of motion you wouldn't get standing and a lot of leg presses got into some sever lumbar flexion which will also provide some more range of motion so now you're entering ranges of motion you probbaly never have before, under load, a s**t load of soreness is your calling card for 2 - 3 days

 

[cptkirk]

Interesting results of a poll asking people whether they use a foam roller or not before a gym workout (NFI how many respondents)
Genuinely surprised that so many people use it
Personally I ditched the roller 2-3 years ago and haven't noticed a reduction in range of motion or performance. Only thing is that now if I do foam roll it hurts more than it used to, which probably has more to do with pain tolerance than anything else
Also, the broscience responses in the comments and those on the clinical athlete page trying to justify the use of a foam roller is pretty funny

with treatment modalities there is a huge amount of placebo type stuff going on where if you think it's working then it's probably best you do it then nothing even if it;s not working for the reason you think it is...along the lines of physio, chiro, massage etc

 

[cptkirk]

Half kg is over a week and measured at the same time each day, so definitely not water weight! But you make a good point that once I lose the 1-2 kg, I really can afford to try and up my maintenance again as it only takes a fortnight to lose it if I go wrong... I'll try keep this mentality and get back to you and see how I go!

You're right though, 1100 is low even for a female, my dad used to think I was overweight growing up (I wasn't) so the fridge never had much food so I kind of 'grew up' on 2 meals a day. #childabuse

Having a quick think about it maybe you should work monthly instead of weekly...your cycle means you'll eat "badly" for 7 - 10 days which may be more then your daily cal allowance but then you make up for it by going lower then maintenance in another part of the month...so work out your monthly cal and try and get 5 - 10% below it over the course of a month

I've been hitting the women's footy trail on my blog and have a piece organised for working around your monthly from a training standpoint but it also has some diet stuff in it so I might just do it today and post it here for you

 

[Aeglos]

I read that too which make sense if you can't stabilise from the middle then you certainly won;t be able to stabilise from the end...I have a client who is this to a tee with reoccurring LBP form no reason but has some decent movement avoidance going on so is hard to nail down

Movement avoidance is a big one, as is perception of pain/injury (I'd argue the two almost always go hand in hand)
IMO you treat the movement/function and pain takes care of itself provided the client has a willingness/desire to get better - you've probably seen this cptkirk, people who have fairly minor injuries or dysfunctions yet they're adamant they're stuck with the problem (which may not actually even exist) for life.
This topic cropped up on my IG feed yesterday and I think one guy summed it up by saying "pain is the nervous systems perceived threat, so that's why someone can lift weights and be proud of their back ache (perceived benefit, non-threatening = no pain) and another person can lift something and perceive the threat as debilitating pain"

*edit*
Lol, I was just reminded of a guy in my diploma class that sums up that quote perfectly. He'd been lifting weights for a while but hadn't made much progress (terrible programming and he's pretty soft - bad combo) so I had him change a few things both in programming and how he was performing movements (traps/rhomboids were taking over when doing rear delts being the main one relevant to this story). Got him to actively protract his scapula and only raise his arms to ~75 degrees. Messaged me a couple days later saying he was in agony, couldn't sleep because his shoulders were twitching along with the claim I'd made him tear a rotator cuff. Turns out there was nothing wrong and he just had DOMS, then after his first high volume bench session the exact same thing happened lol. Unsurprisingly in practical sessions he was by far the most sensitive in the whole class to the point where he'd flinch the second you made contact with his skin

 

[Aeglos]

with treatment modalities there is a huge amount of placebo type stuff going on where if you think it's working then it's probably best you do it then nothing even if it;s not working for the reason you think it is...along the lines of physio, chiro, massage etc

Yeah definitely
I imagine I'll probably find as a therapist there are some people who after a 2 minute interview I know I won't be able to help because they don't really want me to
In the same way I have friends who think physios are useless and only believe in myotherapy - wouldn't matter if a physio used myo techniques, they probably wouldn't perceive themselves as having improved because of the negative mindset

 

[cptkirk]

Movement avoidance is a big one, as is perception of pain/injury (I'd argue the two almost always go hand in hand)
IMO you treat the movement/function and pain takes care of itself provided the client has a willingness/desire to get better - you've probably seen this cptkirk, people who have fairly minor injuries or dysfunctions yet they're adamant they're stuck with the problem (which may not actually even exist) for life.
This topic cropped up on my IG feed yesterday and I think one guy summed it up by saying "pain is the nervous systems perceived threat, so that's why someone can lift weights and be proud of their back ache (perceived benefit, non-threatening = no pain) and another person can lift something and perceive the threat as debilitating pain"

The pain doesn't take care if itself though, it's now imbedded in your nervous system and it's pretty much all it knows unless over a long period of time you put a lot more "positive input" in to override it

Yep pain is perception, you and i could could both have 2 building discs but you could do 3 plates deadlifts and i couldn't even get out of the car

A better way to look at might be stress + context = pain

 

[cptkirk]

Yeah definitely
I imagine I'll probably find as a therapist there are some people who after a 2 minute interview I know I won't be able to help because they don't really want me to
In the same way I have friends who think physios are useless and only believe in myotherapy - wouldn't matter if a physio used myo techniques, they probably wouldn't perceive themselves as having improved because of the negative mindset

I'm not really keen on any treatment types to be honest, no that's not right I suppose, maybe people go to see them in the "wrong order" for a lack of better term

Most people have chronic pain or the sort that comes and goes for no reason so it's apparent there is no injury so what is it?

I'll go with ever increasing stress levels, over excitement of the sympathetic nervous system (fight or flight) and a body that doesn't even know what rest is. let alone one that can get some time in a parasympathetic state (rest/digest)

But you go straight to the physio for knee pain but without shifting out of sympathetic dominance you're wasting your cash it would seem

In the end get your s**t together, stop getting other people to fix your problems and watch your niggling aches and pains go away + you'll know what to do next time your aches and pains come back

I do a treatment type to my clients called be activated which I suppose is newish that is geared solely towards that and it works wonders where they don't feel the need to got to a physio and come to me instead

 

[showdownhero]

But you go straight to the physio for knee pain but without shifting out of sympathetic dominance you're wasting your cash it would seem

I kind of agree but a lot of people are to stupid or ignorant of their muscle mechanics to self diagnose and treat an injury/pain/imbalance

 

[cptkirk]

This is also a problem but as I mentioned above a lot of pain comes from being overstressed but you get knee pain and you head to doctor google or have a chat to a friend "who's had the same thing" for a diagnosis even though you have no idea what you're talking about

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I kind of agree but a lot of people are to stupid or ignorant of their muscle mechanics to self diagnose and treat an injury/pain/imbalance

This is my world right now.

In 2015 i was t-boned by an suv riding my bicycle home, and coped a tibial plateau fracture that required a graft and a plate to repair.

6 weeks of zero weight, and three months of partial weight saw my leg waste away, and even with rehab and the like my itb, abductor, and glute are weak as s**t. All the pain from overload is in the knee/calf, but its all due to my shitty itb and abductor

 

[showdownhero]

Have you ever thought the rationale behind "you should only weigh yourself once per week because your weight can fluctuate by up to X amount of kilos" doesn't make any sense?

The fact your weight can fluctuate so wildly really enforces the idea you should be weighing yourself every day and taking a "rolling average" of your previous 3 weigh ins as an indication of your progress.

Weighing oneself once per week doesn't allow the natural weight deviations to be taken out of the equation it actually makes them more pronounced.

 

[DemonTim]

Have you ever thought the rationale behind "you should only weigh yourself once per week because your weight can fluctuate by up to X amount of kilos" doesn't make any sense?

The fact your weight can fluctuate so wildly really enforces the idea you should be weighing yourself every day and taking a "rolling average" of your previous 3 weigh ins as an indication of your progress.

Weighing oneself once per week doesn't allow the natural weight deviations to be taken out of the equation it actually makes them more pronounced.

I weigh myself daily, never got the whole "only once a week?!?!?!" thing. It allows me to see trends developing etc

 

[phantom13]

Its a personal bias thing with absolutely no basis other than my own opinion but I hate physios for those reasons. I know my body pretty well so generally know how to recover from niggles etc. but everyone these days gets a tiny twinge or just a bit of general soreness from a gym session (when they probably haven't seen the inside of a gym for 10 years) and straight away they book a physio appointment and physios especially (in my experience) rely on repeat business, its never "heres a way to fix the issue" its always "heres some exercises and ill need to see you every fortnight for the rest of your natural life".

Everyone these days wants a fix for all their ails and they want it now.

 

[DemonTim]

Its a personal bias thing with absolutely no basis other than my own opinion but I hate physios for those reasons. I know my body pretty well so generally know how to recover from niggles etc. but everyone these days gets a tiny twinge or just a bit of general soreness from a gym session (when they probably haven't seen the inside of a gym for 10 years) and straight away they book a physio appointment and physios especially (in my experience) rely on repeat business, its never "heres a way to fix the issue" its always "heres some exercises and ill need to see you every fortnight for the rest of your natural life".

Everyone these days wants a fix for all their ails and they want it now.

My missus has the same complaints, a bit part of what she does with her clients is educating them on what the cause and solution is to their soreness.

 

[Aeglos]

Its a personal bias thing with absolutely no basis other than my own opinion but I hate physios for those reasons. I know my body pretty well so generally know how to recover from niggles etc. but everyone these days gets a tiny twinge or just a bit of general soreness from a gym session (when they probably haven't seen the inside of a gym for 10 years) and straight away they book a physio appointment and physios especially (in my experience) rely on repeat business, its never "heres a way to fix the issue" its always "heres some exercises and ill need to see you every fortnight for the rest of your natural life".

Everyone these days wants a fix for all their ails and they want it now.

Could you not apply the same rule to osteos, chiros, massage therapists, myo therapists, personal trainers, nutritionists, plumbers, mechanics, infotech, accountants ie every service that exists?

 

[DemonTim]

Could you not apply the same rule to osteos, chiros, massage therapists, myo therapists, personal trainers, nutritionists, plumbers, mechanics, infotech, accountants ie every service that exists?

Me and my missus really on repeat business, but we also educate our clients. You're not doing your job properly if you aren't passing on your knowledge to your clients.

The reason they repeat shouldn't be because you have forced them to repeat.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Me and my missus really on repeat business, but we also educate our clients. You're not doing your job properly if you aren't passing on your knowledge to your clients.

The reason they repeat shouldn't be because you have forced them to repeat.

This

Ive been seeing a physio 3-1 times a week for 18 months now as a part of my rehab, and the advice from the physio has been invaluable.

We set goals early on, even though we knew it would be years until my recovery was complete, and the whole program i did was based around trying to hit that mark.

He pushed me when we needed to step up the work, and pulled me back when i was going too hard.

Even though tac is footing the bill, and i could be an ingoing cash cow, hes always focused on an end date for me (subject to me meetinh various outcomes)

I still have my limp, but i know id be a lot worse off without a good physio supporting my rehab

 

[saj_21]

I weigh myself daily, never got the whole "only once a week?!?!?!" thing. It allows me to see trends developing etc

When ive dieted before I've either weighed myself daily, twice a week and three times a week. I've found twice a week in a Monday and Friday to be best. I've found with daily weigh ins your body weight can mess with your head, sometimes I could weigh in heavier than the day before despite my diet and training not changing. It would be disheartening to see that number rise despite the suffering.

There no hard or fast rule, it would be good to try all options and see what works for you as an individual after all we all eat and train differently

 

[Mofra]

Its a personal bias thing with absolutely no basis other than my own opinion but I hate physios for those reasons. I know my body pretty well so generally know how to recover from niggles etc. but everyone these days gets a tiny twinge or just a bit of general soreness from a gym session (when they probably haven't seen the inside of a gym for 10 years) and straight away they book a physio appointment and physios especially (in my experience) rely on repeat business, its never "heres a way to fix the issue" its always "heres some exercises and ill need to see you every fortnight for the rest of your natural life".

You must have a really bad physio - I've been to three who have all been good (one was a friend), although I'd much rather see an osteopath. My osteo actually writes notes to fully explain what is going and have given me preventative exercises that I still often incorporate into my workouts / warm ups.

 

[Aeglos]

Me and my missus really on repeat business, but we also educate our clients. You're not doing your job properly if you aren't passing on your knowledge to your clients.

The reason they repeat shouldn't be because you have forced them to repeat.

The point was that it isn't the professions fault if you got a dud practitioner (in this case physio).
Now maybe through their education there isn't enough emphasis on educating clients, but I would be extremely skeptical of anyone who suggested they're taught (at uni, employer may be a different story) to "hang on" to clients.

 

[phantom13]

Could you not apply the same rule to osteos, chiros, massage therapists, myo therapists, personal trainers, nutritionists, plumbers, mechanics, infotech, accountants ie every service that exists?

The bolded probably although ive been lucky enough to have providers that understood my personal preference was to have a specific issue fixed and no interest ongoing maintenance. For the non bolded no, not at all. You call a plumber with a blocked drain and he comes and clears it, I don't call him again unless I have an issue. Yes he wants repeat business but he is fixing a problem and were done not coming back every three weeks to pull a little bit more out.

You must have a really bad physio - I've been to three who have all been good (one was a friend), although I'd much rather see an osteopath. My osteo actually writes notes to fully explain what is going and have given me preventative exercises that I still often incorporate into my workouts / warm ups.

I've seen a few and they all did the "i'll give you 3 minutes of treatment then im gonna give you 4 hours of exercises to do every 5 hours regardless of your location and I need to see you again in a few weeks".

To clarify this (so it doesn't turn into complete storm as so many discussions in this forum do) this is my personal experience with Physios, my personal experience with Chiros, Myos and Osteos was different, yes this is entirely subjective and not based in any fact its only anecdotal and its completely biased as I know my body and what works and what doesn't. I think most people have a preference for their treatment and I would never go to a physio, further to this I think most people who complain of an issue (ie the knee soreness referred to above) and then go to a physio (or anyone really) probably don't need to and they would benefit more from understanding rest and recovery methods and probably correct form in exercise more than having a weekly physio treatment.

 

[Mofra]

To clarify this (so it doesn't turn into complete storm as so many discussions in this forum do) this is my personal experience with Physios, my personal experience with Chiros, Myos and Osteos was different, yes this is entirely subjective and not based in any fact its only anecdotal and its completely biased as I know my body and what works and what doesn't. I think most people have a preference for their treatment and I would never go to a physio, further to this I think most people who complain of an issue (ie the knee soreness referred to above) and then go to a physio (or anyone really) probably don't need to and they would benefit more from understanding rest and recovery methods and probably correct form in exercise more than having a weekly physio treatment.

I agree with the bolded, although having a professional diagnose, teach and explain the rest periods and recovery methods I've found preferable to just relying on Dr Google.

 

[DemonTim]

The point was that it isn't the professions fault if you got a dud practitioner (in this case physio).
Now maybe through their education there isn't enough emphasis on educating clients, but I would be extremely skeptical of anyone who suggested they're taught (at uni, employer may be a different story) to "hang on" to clients.

Couldn't the bolded be applied to our discussions on PTs too I don't think it's the educations fault, I think it's the industry, and people being greedy.

From every profession on your list, i'd say most have the same greediness.

 

[Aeglos]

The bolded probably although ive been lucky enough to have providers that understood my personal preference was to have a specific issue fixed and no interest ongoing maintenance. For the non bolded no, not at all. You call a plumber with a blocked drain and he comes and clears it, I don't call him again unless I have an issue. Yes he wants repeat business but he is fixing a problem and were done not coming back every three weeks to pull a little bit more out.
I've seen a few and they all did the "i'll give you 3 minutes of treatment then im gonna give you 4 hours of exercises to do every 5 hours regardless of your location and I need to see you again in a few weeks".

Blocked drain perhaps not, but if they have to replace a part what's to stop them intentionally putting in a part they know has a short life span and will need to be replaced in 12 months instead of 60? Now, it might not be that same plumber that does the second fix but he's increasing demand in the industry which increases his chance of work
That's also how physical therapists should operate - they diagnose, prescribe exercises then re-evaluate after a set period to provide a new set of exercises. They do this up to the point of absence of pathology whether this is 2 weeks or 2 years. If they've prescribed a frequency of exercise that's beyond what you're capable of then that's the fault of the individual physio - not the system
I am also willing to stand by the statement that there a far more money grabbing chiros and osteos than physios

Couldn't the bolded be applied to our discussions on PTs too I don't think it's the educations fault, I think it's the industry, and people being greedy.
From every profession on your list, i'd say most have the same greediness.

Haha yes it could.
Apart from a few legitimately greed carnts, I think most are just victims of the competitive nature of the market
Certainly can't begrudge someone too much who is just trying to feed his kids

 

[phantom13]

Blocked drain perhaps not, but if they have to replace a part what's to stop them intentionally putting in a part they know has a short life span and will need to be replaced in 12 months instead of 60? Now, it might not be that same plumber that does the second fix but he's increasing demand in the industry which increases his chance of work
That's also how physical therapists should operate - they diagnose, prescribe exercises then re-evaluate after a set period to provide a new set of exercises. They do this up to the point of absence of pathology whether this is 2 weeks or 2 years. If they've prescribed a frequency of exercise that's beyond what you're capable of then that's the fault of the individual physio - not the system
I am also willing to stand by the statement that there a far more money grabbing chiros and osteos than physios

I guess they could but im tipping that's a lot more likely to result in ACA chasing them down, also if your not a complete mung you ask for a warranty or lifespan, if its short on that you get them back for free, also if youre going to a different plumber (which you would if they were having to do stuff every few weeks) it doesn't benefit the original plumber does it? Perhaps its an education and awareness thing. People expect healthcare professionals to have their best interests at heart so put less scrutiny on them.

On the bolded im sure you would, so would a lot of people, they don't have a great rep, I would vehemently disagree (based on my personal experience) but I would never argue with you either, different people respond to different treatment. Im in good shape and have had a number of serious injuries dealt with so I get asked a lot by mates and co-workers what to do for certain injuries, my advice is always the same "see your GP, get a reco, in my experience physios are a total and utter waste or money but many people swear by them, you have to see what works for you".