Gym & Misc General Health and Fitness Thread

[Mofra]

Again, one paleo...er will say it's a caveman diet, don't think too many of them were eating aioli, one will say nothing farmed that scratches eggs, one will say no oils.

Cavemen weren't eating almonds (pre-domestication they were poisenous) or avocado either.
I'm not a fan on marketing where common sense should apply but a less strict version of paleo would actually help the vast majority of people, although really this nails it for me:

i just go the DES method ie. don't eat s**t. a moderate LCHF.

 

[DemonTim]

Positive, yes like his first citation quoting the BDA
"BDA Verdict: Jurassic fad! A diet with fewer processed foods, less sugar and salt is actually a good idea, but unless for medical reason, there is absolutely no need to cut any food group out of your diet. In fact, by cutting out dairy completely from the diet, without very careful substitution, you could be in danger of compromising your bone health because of a lack of calcium."

Wow.

"
That Homo sapiens should be the one species for which native diet is irrelevant defies reason, and there is thus good reason to examine at least the basis for Paleolithic eating. There is a fairly strong case for the principle of a Paleolithic-style diet in the anthropology literature. The biomedical literature has limited evidence for this diet compared with the evidence for other dietary patterns reviewed here, but it is generally supportive.

Estimates of our Paleolithic dietary intake suggest that we are adapted to a high intake of plant foods and the nutrients they contain; a high intake of dietary fiber; and a fat intake of approximately 25% of total calories, which is below the typical level in the United States today and below the liberal fat intake of Mediterranean countries, but well above the intake associated with low-fat/vegetarian diets (42). One of the lesser challenges in reaching conclusions about the Paleolithic diet is variation in our ancestral dietary pattern and debate regarding its salient features (74, 99, 106, 131). In a modern context, an even greater challenge tends to be the wide variability in how the rubric is interpreted and applied and the impossibility of replicating our Stone Age dietary pattern with any real precision.

Many of the plant foods and nearly all of the animal foods consumed during the remote Stone Age are now extinct. Whereas the composition of some animals' flesh may mimic that of mammoths, the composition of the flesh of animals most often appearing in the food supply does not (78, 85). If Paleolithic eating is loosely interpreted to mean a diet based mostly on meat, no meaningful interpretation of health effects is possible. Even more meticulous interpretations of the Paleolithic diet tend to omit details, including but not limited to the very high-caloric throughput of Paleolithic humans, the dramatically different ratio of n-3 to n-6 fatty acids that now prevails, the dramatically different ratio of potassium to sodium that now prevails, the dramatically lower intake of fiber that now prevails, etc.

There is a scientific case for the Paleolithic diet, based in part on anthropological considerations. Intervention studies lend support as well (49, 74), suggesting benefits over the prevailing Western diet in measures of both body composition and metabolic health."

Seems fairly positive.

* you're a sook.

 

[Bazzar]

I'm not a fan on marketing where common sense should apply but a less strict version of paleo would actually help the vast majority of people,

There is, I would have thought you of all people would have realised Paleo is part of a subset that includes Primal, low carb, low carb Med and keto.
Paleo is the strict version, Primal more relaxed (dairy, but no milk, and if tolerated some legumes) Then variations of low carb including keto.

 

[phantom13]

I've never heard of those. I guess that helps clear it up a little. Still don't know why you got so defensive about it.

 

[Bazzar]

I've never heard of those. I guess that helps clear it up a little. Still don't know why you got so defensive about it.

You have never heard of a Low carb diet? a Mediterranean diet? or a Ketogenic diet? Now I understand why you have minimal knowledge of Paleo.

 

[phantom13]

Haha, thanks for confirming my suspicions champ. Play on.

 

[Bazzar]

Haha, thanks for confirming my suspicions champ. Play on.

suspicions champ?

 

[phantom13]

To clarify I have never heard of primal (paleo) I think ketogenic is a variation on low carb but I've honestly not looked into that much. Those are the ones I didn't know.

If you cant see why you're coming across as a bit of a sook about this then were probably done. Paleo now has a bunch of subsets? To someone who isn't in the "lifestyle" as you people like to call it, it seems pretty confusing that all these people who claim to be Paleo might actually be a subset of paleo who follow a different set of rules, so when we see the militant flogs going "Paleo is life, but I have dairy" and then another one going "Dairy is horrible, I'm proper paleo" you can see where the confusion comes in. That coupled with the general crossfit/cult/floggish thing a lot of paleo people have going on and voila.

For about the 100th time the whole gamut seems healthy, no one is questioning that, but consensus about what paleo means is not as simple as you are trying to present it as.

 

[Bazzar]

If you cant see why you're coming across as a bit of a sook about this then were probably done.

If that's the way you and your buddy Timmy think, fair enough, but you appear to be reluctant to take on board what I told you and continue to make comments that show you are trying to be provocative.

So yep, I agree, we're done.

 

[DemonTim]

If that's the way you and your buddy Timmy think, fair enough, but you appear to be reluctant to take on board what I told you and continue to make comments that show you are trying to be provocative.

So yep, I agree, we're done.

You sure do complain a lot while adding * all. Every time you're asked for evidence you either ignore it, sook at the person or link to a random blog. You'll then whinge about any links anyone else posts that don't support your beliefs (even if they actually do)
You're basically the littlegraham of this board

 

[PoppedCorn]

I'll stick to high fat low carb
Come at me

 

[showdownhero]

Again, one paleo...er will say it's a caveman diet, don't think too many of them were eating aioli, one will say nothing farmed that scratches eggs, one will say no oils.

For about the fifth time here, do what you want and yet again, the ideas are obviously healthy however you do it, just seems odd to label it paleo when there is no real consensus on what that means.

lol you've got no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Bazzar]

lol you've got no idea what you're talking about.

He knows, he admitted it.

 

[DemonTim]

lol you've got no idea what you're talking about.

How? He's saying people interpret paleo different, seems a lot agree. It's only the paleo cultists that are attacking him for it.

Should I tell the people I know who claim they follow paleo that they're wrong because random bigfooty users don't hold the the same definition?

Inb4 "hurr durr mainstream media"

 

[Gralin]

Again, one paleo...er will say it's a caveman diet, don't think too many of them were eating aioli, one will say nothing farmed that scratches eggs, one will say no oils.

For about the fifth time here, do what you want and yet again, the ideas are obviously healthy however you do it, just seems odd to label it paleo when there is no real consensus on what that means.

you've gotta give them eggs, you can forage for eggs

 

[PoopingHindi]

i thought Bazzar pretty accurately and succinctly explained what paleo is a couple of pages back.
i dont understand how you're still having this conversation or how it turned nasty.

...but then again maybe paleo is just too incomprehensible for my tiny little mind.

for the record i dont eat paleo (or at least not to my understanding of it)
and im not a Pete Evans fan (although i do agree with quite a few of the things he says)

 

[DemonTim]

i thought Bazaar pretty accurately and succinctly explained what paleo is a couple of pages back.
i dont understand how you're still having this conversation or how it turned nasty.

...but then again maybe paleo is just too incomprehensible for my tiny little mind.

for the record i dont eat paleo (or at least not to my understanding of it)
and im not a Pete Evans fan (although i do agree with quite a few of the things he says)

Noones saying he didn't, it's being said that it means different things to different people. Phantom summed that up accurately and succinctly about 74 times. But people still crack the sads for some reason. As if it's our fault that people consider it different to a bigfooty posters definition.

 

[Bazzar]

i thought Bazzar pretty accurately and succinctly explained what paleo is a couple of pages back.
i dont understand how you're still having this conversation or how it turned nasty.

...but then again maybe paleo is just too incomprehensible for my tiny little mind.

for the record i dont eat paleo (or at least not to my understanding of it)
and im not a Pete Evans fan (although i do agree with quite a few of the things he says)

Thanks I thought I did.

Also if you read any of the experts pages and follow the countless blogs and forums the definition of Paleo is basically the same, it DOES NOT change, and if people still insist then show me me an example.
And for the record i'm the same as you, not Paleo

 

[showdownhero]

How? He's saying people interpret paleo different, seems a lot agree. It's only the paleo cultists that are attacking him for it.

Should I tell the people I know who claim they follow paleo that they're wrong because random bigfooty users don't hold the the same definition?

Inb4 "hurr durr mainstream media"

I don't even follow paleo but if he wants to take pot shots at least do it from a slightly educated position.

No eggs or oils on paleo??? Cavemen didn't eat aioli? C'mon man

 

[DemonTim]

Thanks I thought I did.

Also if you read any of the experts pages and follow the countless blogs and forums the definition of Paleo is basically the same, it DOES NOT change, and if people still insist then show me me an example.
And for the record i'm the same as you, not Paleo

You've said yourself the mainstream media says it's something else. Most people who pick up this stuff pick it up from mainstream sources, and they're more likely to read Wikipedia than a random blog

How does one become an expert on paleo though? Seriously? Aren't most 'experts' on it just randoms from the fitness industry

 

[DemonTim]

I don't even follow paleo but if he wants to take pot shots at least do it from a slightly educated position.

No eggs or oils on paleo??? Cavemen didn't eat aioli? C'mon man

hes not taking potshots. He's saying it has a varied definition based on who you speak to. I agreed, and said my office is a prime example of it. He's even said it's healthy and good in principle. His comments on paleo have been positive, his comments on what people think it is are negative

The rebuttal has been "yeah but I read blogs that say what it is, so that means no one thinks what you're saying they do"

*s sake. I've got a personal trainer (newly accredited) in my office who basically mimics what you're saying no one thinks

 

[DemonTim]

I'm getting a weird recollection of when I posted the same complaint about IIFYM having meanings that had been bastardised from the original, and being lambasted for claiming blogs and "experts" had a definition

Weird double standards

 

[showdownhero]

hes not taking potshots. He's saying it has a varied definition based on who you speak to. I agreed, and said my office is a prime example of it. He's even said it's healthy and good in principle. His comments on paleo have been positive, his comments on what people think it is are negative

The rebuttal has been "yeah but I read blogs that say what it is, so that means no one thinks what you're saying they do"

****s sake. I've got a personal trainer (newly accredited) in my office who basically mimics what you're saying no one thinks

Let's say we're talking about another eating philosophy for a moment

"Should I tell my vegetarian friend who eats fish that they're not really a vegetarian?"

Well yeah probably, you can tell them what you like. Just because people have different interpretations of a dietary philosophy doesn't make them correct.

 

[DemonTim]

Let's say we're talking about another eating philosophy for a moment

"Should I tell my vegetarian friend who eats fish that they're not really a vegetarian?"

Well yeah probably, you can tell them what you like. Just because people have different interpretations of a dietary philosophy doesn't make them correct.

It has been argued on here before, and I was told that people can have different interpretations...

But that's a false analogy. Unless you think there's large amounts of people out there saying it? Or as bazzar doomed about, the mainstream media pushing that definition? (Your example also would be contradictory to the definition, is someone claiming paleo doesn't allow eggs or oil contradicting the definition?)

 

[phantom13]

Not really. Vegetarians don't eat any meat, pesceterians eat fish, there not even remotely related to what were talking about.

FWIW I was being amicable and honestly a simple reply of "yeh theres subsets to Paelo so that can be confusing to those not in the know" would have done but trying to pass off this stupid "umbrella" or "lifestyle" as not being a shade confusing to those who aren't "in the know" is ridiculous. Is it a caveman diet? Is it a take on that? Is it no processed foods? If you can answer those then why can I find a cookbook showing otherwise? Veggos don't chuck meat in their cookbooks, seems pretty clear cut.

@bazaar you explained it, it took 3 pages and a diagram but here we are, I'm no less confused about how some people are paleo and if nuts and eggs are okay but whatever I'm not doing it so I don't really care.

For the record if Demontim and I agree on something it usually means something cause we rarely agree on anything (I'm sure hed say the same).

As for being provocative, how? I said the only issues I have are x, you responded. two or three pages later you've openly said theres a lot going on, theres subsets, yet youre still trying to argue its not confusing and I'm the idiot for not getting it?