General MFC Discussion 2.0

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Cannon82

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 26, 2012
14,578
19,642
AFL Club
Melbourne
Did i say it was solely 1 ******* person? The person i was talking about just made $320k to come to Australia. Funny how only countries with money are targeted and not the actual **** countries not giving a **** but wheres the money in that?
The likes of China, India, Brazil, etc don't have to adhere to the emissions guidelines because they're not "developed" yet, or something along those lines. At least that was the story way back when I was in uni. Restricting their emissions when they don't have the infrastructure / economy to support the latest and greatest eco-solutions is effectively limiting their growth. Quite a giggle though because if you don't do something about those countries, then other countries cleaning up their act doesn't achieve much.
 

Cannon82

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 26, 2012
14,578
19,642
AFL Club
Melbourne
That journo was very unfair in his approach to that interviewer, it was a planned take down with no good will there at all.

All the same, Shapiro came out afterwards and acknowledged he didn’t handle it well.
Not surprising given its on Aunty Beeb. In the same league as that Jordan Peterson / Cathy Newman "interview"?
 

Salc0

Draftee
Feb 4, 2017
19
16
AFL Club
Melbourne
Did i say it was solely 1 ******* person? The person i was talking about just made $320k to come to Australia. Funny how only countries with money are targeted and not the actual **** countries not giving a **** but wheres the money in that?
Yeah cause religion causes most the wars and according to the **** wit who banged on about climate change we're supposed to all be under ******* water while making **** loads in the mean time
That's where you said one guy **** head. You are 100% wrong on this, there is no sensible debate. The 20 minute youtube clip does not stack up against the volumes and volumes of peer reviewed literature on the topic.

I know that I'm not going to convince you anyway, but I still think you need to be told you are wrong. Have a nice life with your head in the sand.
 

Salc0

Draftee
Feb 4, 2017
19
16
AFL Club
Melbourne
Not surprising given its on Aunty Beeb. In the same league as that Jordan Peterson / Cathy Newman "interview"?
Imagine trying to interview someone who never gives an answer, would infuriate me. Peterson is just another ******** artist who doesn't believe what he peddles
 

HANDSOLO

All Australian
May 19, 2014
868
925
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Broncos
Well I have been told I have to attend pronoun training LOL

Peterson has mostly reasonable points, and there is no doubt the left has become quite fascist in the rigidity and set of views you must endorse to not be considered the next hitler

That said, there is still slot of flog about him, and he cannot admit his errors which detracts from the general message

The science of climate change is beyond doubt until the point of what exactly the effects will be and how negative they will be, which is fair to debate, although obviously over time and with more analysis/ research the doubt decreases.

It seems faintly ridiculous to argue that it is an international conspiracy. Although there is a possibility, however remote, that the scientific consensus ends up being wrong and/or the negative effects aren’t that bad.

Personally I have prepared by buying a hobby farm with a large river and water right, a diesel land cruiser Ute, a tractor, a .223 and some other things. It really allows me to wear RMs legitimately now and the tax deductions are amazing
 

HANDSOLO

All Australian
May 19, 2014
868
925
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Broncos
While I’m on my rant I wanted to make one other point. The last two election cycles I have been close to (16 in Merica and 19 in Aus) have just made it so clear to me that our biggest problem, less so in Australia but still Prevalent is that we no longer are willing to listen and understand how a different point of view evolves and can be valid (or at least parts of it). Instead we shout each other down and always assume the worst intent, or worse idiocy and bigotry in people with a counter view. This is both dangerous and terribly conceited

Left and right are both guilty of this, but more so the left recently it seems.

For example, Clinton didn’t lose in 16 because she was a woman and Americans are all racists - she lost because she has a terrible history of protecting the establishment and didn’t bother to campaign in swing states in an election when people (rightly) felt shafted by politicians of all stripes

Although I think labor has an economically better set of policies, shorten was always a **** candidate, and they ran a poor, confusing campaign. It’s not cause half of all Australians are scared bigots, uneducated or we should kick out Queensland as some on my social
Media circles assert

It really prevent us from having serious debate, and getting consensus around important policy - instead one group implements it, and as there was no large scale consensus, it’s easy for the next group to remove.

I’ve been really trying to dig deeper and understand the myriad of views out there, if nothing else it leads to lots of interesting convos

Ive been looking for a term for what I’ve become - I think its “Alt middle”
 

stretcharmstrong

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 21, 2009
6,960
4,815
Australia
AFL Club
Melbourne
Well I have been told I have to attend pronoun training LOL

Peterson has mostly reasonable points, and there is no doubt the left has become quite fascist in the rigidity and set of views you must endorse to not be considered the next hitler

That said, there is still slot of flog about him, and he cannot admit his errors which detracts from the general message

The science of climate change is beyond doubt until the point of what exactly the effects will be and how negative they will be, which is fair to debate, although obviously over time and with more analysis/ research the doubt decreases.

It seems faintly ridiculous to argue that it is an international conspiracy. Although there is a possibility, however remote, that the scientific consensus ends up being wrong and/or the negative effects aren’t that bad.

Personally I have prepared by buying a hobby farm with a large river and water right, a diesel land cruiser Ute, a tractor, a .223 and some other things. It really allows me to wear RMs legitimately now and the tax deductions are amazing
What a ******* awesome post! You funny campaigner
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

stretcharmstrong

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 21, 2009
6,960
4,815
Australia
AFL Club
Melbourne
While I’m on my rant I wanted to make one other point. The last two election cycles I have been close to (16 in Merica and 19 in Aus) have just made it so clear to me that our biggest problem, less so in Australia but still Prevalent is that we no longer are willing to listen and understand how a different point of view evolves and can be valid (or at least parts of it). Instead we shout each other down and always assume the worst intent, or worse idiocy and bigotry in people with a counter view. This is both dangerous and terribly conceited

Left and right are both guilty of this, but more so the left recently it seems.

For example, Clinton didn’t lose in 16 because she was a woman and Americans are all racists - she lost because she has a terrible history of protecting the establishment and didn’t bother to campaign in swing states in an election when people (rightly) felt shafted by politicians of all stripes

Although I think labor has an economically better set of policies, shorten was always a **** candidate, and they ran a poor, confusing campaign. It’s not cause half of all Australians are scared bigots, uneducated or we should kick out Queensland as some on my social
Media circles assert

It really prevent us from having serious debate, and getting consensus around important policy - instead one group implements it, and as there was no large scale consensus, it’s easy for the next group to remove.

I’ve been really trying to dig deeper and understand the myriad of views out there, if nothing else it leads to lots of interesting convos

Ive been looking for a term for what I’ve become - I think its “Alt middle”
Again, well said. Good ******* posting man. I’d subscribe to your newsletter.
 

HANDSOLO

All Australian
May 19, 2014
868
925
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Broncos
What a ******* awesome post! You funny campaigner
Thanks mate! Although I must stress I really did buy the farm and gun and truck and tractor, and plant lots of trees on it (ups the productivity of the land, refuge for wildlife which I can shoot and eat when times get tough). Also two horses. I don’t trust horses but good transport.

My wife was sort of annoyed at me at the time but she’ll thank me one day!
 

Gysberts2Bate

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 12, 2013
15,041
17,521
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
I don’t think it’s a matter of kicking anyone out but I think that federated politics has clearly failed in the long run. The states in Australia might as well be entirely different countries such are the social and political landscapes, and it’s not helping anyone having to please everyone to have domain over the sum. I’m sure Queenslanders would be happier doing their own thing. Victoria certainly would be.
 

Tempy Tiger

Premiership Player
Sep 18, 2006
4,237
3,311
AFL Club
Melbourne
Well I have been told I have to attend pronoun training LOL

Peterson has mostly reasonable points, and there is no doubt the left has become quite fascist in the rigidity and set of views you must endorse to not be considered the next hitler

That said, there is still slot of flog about him, and he cannot admit his errors which detracts from the general message

The science of climate change is beyond doubt until the point of what exactly the effects will be and how negative they will be, which is fair to debate, although obviously over time and with more analysis/ research the doubt decreases.

It seems faintly ridiculous to argue that it is an international conspiracy. Although there is a possibility, however remote, that the scientific consensus ends up being wrong and/or the negative effects aren’t that bad.

Personally I have prepared by buying a hobby farm with a large river and water right, a diesel land cruiser Ute, a tractor, a .223 and some other things. It really allows me to wear RMs legitimately now and the tax deductions are amazing
It’s pretty interesting that things seem to have gone in totally the opposite direction than what everyone believed in the 90s. The world was globalalising, tariffs were bad, free trade was good, wed be able to work without the barriers of country borders. But in the last decade we are breaking back down into our tribes. Social media lets us find our peeps, so we become less tolerant of different views, and politics has become way more divisive. There is no discussion of common good anymore, or consensus building. It’s just about winning and losing.
All that said, I’d be happy to vote WA and QLD off the island. We should introduce compulsory euthanasia in QLD for anyone who reaches the age of 55.
 

Cannon82

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 26, 2012
14,578
19,642
AFL Club
Melbourne
Imagine trying to interview someone who never gives an answer, would infuriate me. Peterson is just another ******** artist who doesn't believe what he peddles
Imagine trying to give an interview where all the interviewer does is intentionally misrepresent someone else's views to try to discredit them and chalk up outrage points.
 

stretcharmstrong

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 21, 2009
6,960
4,815
Australia
AFL Club
Melbourne
Thanks mate! Although I must stress I really did buy the farm and gun and truck and tractor, and plant lots of trees on it (ups the productivity of the land, refuge for wildlife which I can shoot and eat when times get tough). Also two horses. I don’t trust horses but good transport.

My wife was sort of annoyed at me at the time but she’ll thank me one day!
I love it. Although I think you should work on the trusting horses bit. Where’s the farm?
 

blitznu

Club Legend
Jan 6, 2013
1,974
2,037
AFL Club
Melbourne
I love it. Although I think you should work on the trusting horses bit. Where’s the farm?
**** horses haha may be cause as i young buck i jumped on old boys mates race horse without telling anybody and that campaigner took off and i broke my wrist. But **** horses im with handsolo on that
 

Deemanding

Club Legend
Apr 24, 2009
1,873
1,217
Perth
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Subi Lions, Trailblazers, AS Roma
All that said, I’d be happy to vote WA and QLD off the island. We should introduce compulsory euthanasia in QLD for anyone who reaches the age of 55.
I'd be moving to Victoria in no time if that was the case...
 

Salc0

Draftee
Feb 4, 2017
19
16
AFL Club
Melbourne
While I’m on my rant I wanted to make one other point. The last two election cycles I have been close to (16 in Merica and 19 in Aus) have just made it so clear to me that our biggest problem, less so in Australia but still Prevalent is that we no longer are willing to listen and understand how a different point of view evolves and can be valid (or at least parts of it). Instead we shout each other down and always assume the worst intent, or worse idiocy and bigotry in people with a counter view. This is both dangerous and terribly conceited

Left and right are both guilty of this, but more so the left recently it seems.

For example, Clinton didn’t lose in 16 because she was a woman and Americans are all racists - she lost because she has a terrible history of protecting the establishment and didn’t bother to campaign in swing states in an election when people (rightly) felt shafted by politicians of all stripes

Although I think labor has an economically better set of policies, shorten was always a **** candidate, and they ran a poor, confusing campaign. It’s not cause half of all Australians are scared bigots, uneducated or we should kick out Queensland as some on my social
Media circles assert

It really prevent us from having serious debate, and getting consensus around important policy - instead one group implements it, and as there was no large scale consensus, it’s easy for the next group to remove.

I’ve been really trying to dig deeper and understand the myriad of views out there, if nothing else it leads to lots of interesting convos

Ive been looking for a term for what I’ve become - I think its “Alt middle”
Nice reply, there is a bit to unpack there, so I might be a bit all over the place sorry.

First off, I certainly wouldn't endorse a Clinton presidency in the US, she is much too conservative for my liking. However, the idea that the left is more to blame for the lack of political discourse seems pretty ridiculous to me. You have a whole range of people being shouted down for acting in their conscience, to the point where you can't call someone out for being racist, sexist, homophobic, whatever, without being called a snowflake, SJW, soyboy, whatever. The idea that I am not allowed to criticise people for their expressed opinion is crazy to me. You have Trump calling it 'fake news' when he is rightfully called out for blatantly lying, or inciting violence, or being openly racist, but it is the left that is shutting down discourse? Similarly if someone can tell me why they voted for liberal without sinking to a six word slogan from a smear campaign I would appreciate it. ScoMo wouldn't engage in any sensible debate on any topic, instead he hid the whole campaign and ran with this idea that Labour was going to be bad for the economy with zero evidence for it. If anyone is shutting down sensible discussion it is definitely the right from my perspective.

From your other post I think it is great you are able to set yourself up for any future issues, I would hope I can do something similar. However, a lot of other people do not have the same luxury to control their own fate in the same manner, and that is what bothers me. Not acting on climate change is a whole new type of class warfare. This is where I am really put off by centrists aswell. There is a clear right side in this debate. By sitting in the middle you are passively endorsing climate denial (not necessarily you personally, but people saying there is arguments on both sides and **** like that). It's the same for a lot of issues, it may seem sensible to take a middle viewpoint and say we need to discuss more. But in the mean time the disadvantaged keep getting a worse deal while the people advantaged by the status quo win over and over again.

Just some thoughts.
 

Salc0

Draftee
Feb 4, 2017
19
16
AFL Club
Melbourne
Imagine trying to give an interview where all the interviewer does is intentionally misrepresent someone else's views to try to discredit them and chalk up outrage points.
If Peterson's views are so easy to misrepresent maybe he should put some thought into how he is communicating them. For someone who apparently thinks we should all express ourselves clearly, Peterson is very good at using double speak and ambiguity to obscure his true meaning. Whenever someone defends Peterson's views, I can't help but think of this shot from the Simpsons

1559978525853.png


If Peterson isn't racist, or sexist, or homophobic then he might want to consider why he is so popular with people who are, and clarify that he doesn't represent them. At best he is a misguided life coach, the whole clean your room business seems mostly harmless, maybe he should stick with that.

This is my favourite hot take of Peterson's views, at least the best idea of his views we can get!

 

Cannon82

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 26, 2012
14,578
19,642
AFL Club
Melbourne
If Peterson's views are so easy to misrepresent maybe he should put some thought into how he is communicating them. For someone who apparently thinks we should all express ourselves clearly, Peterson is very good at using double speak and ambiguity to obscure his true meaning. Whenever someone defends Peterson's views, I can't help but think of this shot from the Simpsons
The reason he was so careful of his words was clearly because it seems he's used to people trying to twist his words around to make it offensive so they can get a headline and soundbite out of it. He's only using "double speak and ambiguity" if you're interpreting what he's saying as something else, which clearly seems to be the case with you. I re-watched a bit of that Cathy Newman interview for the hell of it yesterday and he was quite clear in what he was saying, despite her best efforts.

If Peterson isn't racist, or sexist, or homophobic then he might want to consider why he is so popular with people who are, and clarify that he doesn't represent them. At best he is a misguided life coach, the whole clean your room business seems mostly harmless, maybe he should stick with that.
When everything is racist, nothing is racist. When everything is sexist, nothing is sexist. When everything is homophobic, nothing is homophobic. You moan about being called an SJW in the other post yet you want to shout people down with accusations of all the "isms" at your disposal. Its pretty standard fare for your kind to kill off a debate with accusations of wrong-think. Peterson isn't responsible for people who watch his videos and has no obligation to comment on them.

First off, I certainly wouldn't endorse a Clinton presidency in the US, she is much too conservative for my liking. However, the idea that the left is more to blame for the lack of political discourse seems pretty ridiculous to me. You have a whole range of people being shouted down for acting in their conscience, to the point where you can't call someone out for being racist, sexist, homophobic, whatever, without being called a snowflake, SJW, soyboy, whatever. The idea that I am not allowed to criticise people for their expressed opinion is crazy to me. You have Trump calling it 'fake news' when he is rightfully called out for blatantly lying, or inciting violence, or being openly racist, but it is the left that is shutting down discourse? Similarly if someone can tell me why they voted for liberal without sinking to a six word slogan from a smear campaign I would appreciate it. ScoMo wouldn't engage in any sensible debate on any topic, instead he hid the whole campaign and ran with this idea that Labour was going to be bad for the economy with zero evidence for it. If anyone is shutting down sensible discussion it is definitely the right from my perspective.
The left is as much to blame for the lack of political discourse as anyone, and you can examine your own behaviour to see why. You want to be able to accuse people of everything under the sun - accusations which have real-world implications on people's employment and social lives - and yet get upset about what is basically name-calling in return. You are absolutely allowed to criticize people for their opinions, but don't expect them to like it. If you want to publicly accuse people of racism, homophobia, etc, you'd really want to have some solid evidence up your sleeve or you should expect to get sued. Its almost like you can't just do what you want because you feel like it.

As for shutting down debate, the left absolutely loves it. Look at people getting de-platformed / de-monetized on Twitter, YouTube, other social media; events being cancelled because of panicked screaming from SJWs; the media's biased reporting and misrepresentation of people as racist, sexist, etc etc because their views don't align with the narrative. Just accusing people of **** rather than arguing the points is pretty much the default conversational starter from your snowy colleagues, and yourself as you've just demonstrated.

From your other post I think it is great you are able to set yourself up for any future issues, I would hope I can do something similar. However, a lot of other people do not have the same luxury to control their own fate in the same manner, and that is what bothers me. Not acting on climate change is a whole new type of class warfare. This is where I am really put off by centrists aswell. There is a clear right side in this debate. By sitting in the middle you are passively endorsing climate denial (not necessarily you personally, but people saying there is arguments on both sides and **** like that). It's the same for a lot of issues, it may seem sensible to take a middle viewpoint and say we need to discuss more. But in the mean time the disadvantaged keep getting a worse deal while the people advantaged by the status quo win over and over again.
Some questions for you:
  1. What do you expect individuals to do about climate change?
  2. After answering the first question: Do you drive a car? Do you have air-conditioning in your home? How many fridges, freezer, TVs, computers, phones, lights, etc etc are going right now in your home?
Its a common theme in your responses that you assume that you're on the right side of the debate and that everyone should be falling into line with you. Sadly, accusing people of **** and calling them names isn't a great way win people over to your way of thinking. You should have a bit more thought on what you know, what you think you know and where you get your information from - you act self-righteous, but have you considered that what you've just said isn't actually right? Doesn't seem like that's crossed your mind.
 

TheDarkDwarf

Premium Platinum
Nov 11, 2013
1,189
1,443
Sydney
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Tottenham Hotspur
The reason he was so careful of his words was clearly because it seems he's used to people trying to twist his words around to make it offensive so they can get a headline and soundbite out of it. He's only using "double speak and ambiguity" if you're interpreting what he's saying as something else, which clearly seems to be the case with you. I re-watched a bit of that Cathy Newman interview for the hell of it yesterday and he was quite clear in what he was saying, despite her best efforts.



When everything is racist, nothing is racist. When everything is sexist, nothing is sexist. When everything is homophobic, nothing is homophobic. You moan about being called an SJW in the other post yet you want to shout people down with accusations of all the "isms" at your disposal. Its pretty standard fare for your kind to kill off a debate with accusations of wrong-think. Peterson isn't responsible for people who watch his videos and has no obligation to comment on them.



The left is as much to blame for the lack of political discourse as anyone, and you can examine your own behaviour to see why. You want to be able to accuse people of everything under the sun - accusations which have real-world implications on people's employment and social lives - and yet get upset about what is basically name-calling in return. You are absolutely allowed to criticize people for their opinions, but don't expect them to like it. If you want to publicly accuse people of racism, homophobia, etc, you'd really want to have some solid evidence up your sleeve or you should expect to get sued. Its almost like you can't just do what you want because you feel like it.

As for shutting down debate, the left absolutely loves it. Look at people getting de-platformed / de-monetized on Twitter, YouTube, other social media; events being cancelled because of panicked screaming from SJWs; the media's biased reporting and misrepresentation of people as racist, sexist, etc etc because their views don't align with the narrative. Just accusing people of **** rather than arguing the points is pretty much the default conversational starter from your snowy colleagues, and yourself as you've just demonstrated.



Some questions for you:
  1. What do you expect individuals to do about climate change?
  2. After answering the first question: Do you drive a car? Do you have air-conditioning in your home? How many fridges, freezer, TVs, computers, phones, lights, etc etc are going right now in your home?
Its a common theme in your responses that you assume that you're on the right side of the debate and that everyone should be falling into line with you. Sadly, accusing people of **** and calling them names isn't a great way win people over to your way of thinking. You should have a bit more thought on what you know, what you think you know and where you get your information from - you act self-righteous, but have you considered that what you've just said isn't actually right? Doesn't seem like that's crossed your mind.
Unfortunately I can only give you a single like. Incredibly well articulated and reasoned response. Well done.
 
Top Bottom