General MFC Discussion 2.0

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Topkent

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How's Caro falling off her broomstick over "Melbourne players celebrating too hard". https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2019-caroline-wilson-slams-melbourne-for-their-over-celebration-in-their-win-over-carlton/news-story/9c368ee241899fe113d4a70cc8a47e6b

I'm definitely no fan of journalists at the best of times, but the fact we get the woeful opinions of Wilson, Barrett, Morris etc never played the game at the highest level is disturbing. To have turned this formerly great game into a commentary of soap opera topics is a slap in the face to those great journalists of yesteryear who commentate the game. It goes hand in hand with the afl agenda of turning the game from a sport to an entertainment business.

Back to Carowhine, claiming the players celebrated too hard after thst result shows the difference between former players and those who haven't played. Those that haven't played would view the game based on stats, the scoreboard and the ladder position. Those that have played would still judge on those aspects, but would also account for experience if they were in the same position during their career, and that includes the passion aspect. The fact Judd, who has previously accused the players of similar, sided with Melbourne on the topic shows more proof of how journalists without playing experience are far less in tune.

The fact a team who has grossly underachieved this year held on to win, 1 down most of the match and a further 2 down for the last third, with an incredibly boisterous "away" crowd supporting a team who had themselves came back from 30+ margins their previous 3 games (beating teams in the top 8 twice and just losing to a team just out) was incredibly gutsy. In fact, the players celebrating shows the level of care they still have, considering the s**tshow of 2019 this far. I'd be more disappointed if they didn't celebrate. Doesn't mean any one of those players would be happy to be 5-10, but surely they are allowed a celebration to enjoy a hard fought win, especially with so few over the season.
Best part was her slamming Gus for what he said in an age article. If I was Gus is refuse to talk next time oh wait then they would slam the players for being robotic and not giving enough
 

ponsdale

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Sep 20, 2012
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How's Caro falling off her broomstick over "Melbourne players celebrating too hard". https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2019-caroline-wilson-slams-melbourne-for-their-over-celebration-in-their-win-over-carlton/news-story/9c368ee241899fe113d4a70cc8a47e6b

I'm definitely no fan of journalists at the best of times, but the fact we get the woeful opinions of Wilson, Barrett, Morris etc never played the game at the highest level is disturbing. To have turned this formerly great game into a commentary of soap opera topics is a slap in the face to those great journalists of yesteryear who commentate the game. It goes hand in hand with the afl agenda of turning the game from a sport to an entertainment business.

Back to Carowhine, claiming the players celebrated too hard after thst result shows the difference between former players and those who haven't played. Those that haven't played would view the game based on stats, the scoreboard and the ladder position. Those that have played would still judge on those aspects, but would also account for experience if they were in the same position during their career, and that includes the passion aspect. The fact Judd, who has previously accused the players of similar, sided with Melbourne on the topic shows more proof of how journalists without playing experience are far less in tune.

The fact a team who has grossly underachieved this year held on to win, 1 down most of the match and a further 2 down for the last third, with an incredibly boisterous "away" crowd supporting a team who had themselves came back from 30+ margins their previous 3 games (beating teams in the top 8 twice and just losing to a team just out) was incredibly gutsy. In fact, the players celebrating shows the level of care they still have, considering the s**tshow of 2019 this far. I'd be more disappointed if they didn't celebrate. Doesn't mean any one of those players would be happy to be 5-10, but surely they are allowed a celebration to enjoy a hard fought win, especially with so few over the season.
I’m certainly not a fan of what Caro said here, nor some of the tripe that Morris or Barrett have produced in the name of journalism.

But to assume that you have to have played the game at the highest level in order to have a valid opinion on it is absolute tosh.

For starters, unless you’re all Toumpas and Morton under aliases, everything on Bigfooty is a waste of time. (Well now that I think about it...)

Journalism requires outsiders asking hard questions of insiders. Otherwise everything just becomes a closed shop, an old boys’ network.

And quite frankly, I think we suffer from too many insider voices in AFL commentary/reporting as it is. Too many reporters are captive of the AFL machine and spin to its favour to continue their access.

I long for a quality independent insightful media.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Proper Gander

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I’m certainly not a fan of what Caro said here, nor some of the tripe that Morris or Barrett have produced in the name of journalism.

But to assume that you have to have played the game at the highest level in order to have a valid opinion on it is absolute tosh.

For starters, unless you’re all Toumpas and Morton under aliases, everything on Bigfooty is a waste of time. (Well now that I think about it...)

Journalism requires outsiders asking hard questions of insiders. Otherwise everything just becomes a closed shop, an old boys’ network.

And quite frankly, I think we suffer from too many insider voices in AFL commentary/reporting as it is. Too many reporters are captive of the AFL machine and spin to its favour to continue their access.

I long for a quality independent insightful media.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I don’t think media need to have played at the highest level etc to comment. A range of voices is much better than a boys club.

I do think there are some real issues with the “AFL accredited” media. For a start, there is too much coverage and too many commentators for the size of the game. You can listen to a permanent stream of discussion on several radio networks supplemented by several footy discussion tv shows each day. The net result is tired repetition of utter non issues rehashed and broken down endlessly to no particular purpose and zero benefit to anyone. Examples are:
- did Melbourne sing the song too loudly (multiple times we’ve had this one)
- Richmond telling jokes in the huddle. Good psychology or bad look? Discuss (which everyone then revisited for weeks)
- players reprimand Wingard on field. Good leadership or bad look?
- May reprimands Frost on field (ditto)

There is so much oversupply of media that a substantial amount is now devoted to earnest discussion of pros and cons of possible trades that have no basis in fact and started their life as abstract internet speculation.

People get paid to do this. Hell, I pay to watch and listen. The world has gone mad.

I would love some high quality, independent sports reporting and opinion from talented contributors. I’ve read the odd article from NYT - they do some great sports pieces. I wish we had similar here.
 
Last edited:

Grimesy87

Team Captain
May 22, 2018
470
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I’m certainly not a fan of what Caro said here, nor some of the tripe that Morris or Barrett have produced in the name of journalism.

But to assume that you have to have played the game at the highest level in order to have a valid opinion on it is absolute tosh.

For starters, unless you’re all Toumpas and Morton under aliases, everything on Bigfooty is a waste of time. (Well now that I think about it...)

Journalism requires outsiders asking hard questions of insiders. Otherwise everything just becomes a closed shop, an old boys’ network.

And quite frankly, I think we suffer from too many insider voices in AFL commentary/reporting as it is. Too many reporters are captive of the AFL machine and spin to its favour to continue their access.

I long for a quality independent insightful media.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
First of all, rubbish.

Big footy is fans talking who pay memberships, go to games and keep the game running through their emotional/financial connection to the club they support.

Journalists cover the game, paid a salary to cover the news/facts and write opinion articles.

As you said, they supposedly seek inside information to cover the game. This is not happening anymore, because they lack accountability and make things up, which removes any trust the players have to talk to them without robotic answers. Look at the diatribe Barrett talks about sacking Richardson, how he did with Bolton all year. Need more proof, Jay Clark stating about Oliver being a target for GCS just today. Forget the fact he's contracted 2 more years and heavily involved with the Melbourne broader club community.

"Melbourne need outside speed and skill, could they trade for Zac Williams?" See I can make stuff up that sounds good too.

To put people in a fan forum in the same conversation is ridiculous.

As I said in my initial post, journalists discuss the game with numbers and data available to them, and former players (some with relevance, others without) can draw on the experience of similar times at their clubs during their career. Using this discussion as an example, Judd has the ability to recall games where he would have had players go down, and been up against it to win etc. He would recall times where the relief to win would have been pure joy, even for a bloke who shows minimal emotion. Not to mention he has a premiership medal. Many other PAID journalists who write articles can not do the same.

Give me Carey, Lyon, Reiwoldt, King and Hodge talking about footy any day. They discuss what's happening and why it happened.
 

Simon_Says

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First of all, rubbish.

Big footy is fans talking who pay memberships, go to games and keep the game running through their emotional/financial connection to the club they support.

Journalists cover the game, paid a salary to cover the news/facts and write opinion articles.

As you said, they supposedly seek inside information to cover the game. This is not happening anymore, because they lack accountability and make things up, which removes any trust the players have to talk to them without robotic answers. Look at the diatribe Barrett talks about sacking Richardson, how he did with Bolton all year. Need more proof, Jay Clark stating about Oliver being a target for GCS just today. Forget the fact he's contracted 2 more years and heavily involved with the Melbourne broader club community.

"Melbourne need outside speed and skill, could they trade for Zac Williams?" See I can make stuff up that sounds good too.

To put people in a fan forum in the same conversation is ridiculous.

As I said in my initial post, journalists discuss the game with numbers and data available to them, and former players (some with relevance, others without) can draw on the experience of similar times at their clubs during their career. Using this discussion as an example, Judd has the ability to recall games where he would have had players go down, and been up against it to win etc. He would recall times where the relief to win would have been pure joy, even for a bloke who shows minimal emotion. Not to mention he has a premiership medal. Many other PAID journalists who write articles can not do the same.

Give me Carey, Lyon, Reiwoldt, King and Hodge talking about footy any day. They discuss what's happening and why it happened.
Woulds take their credibility over the other journos, since you know they have played the game at the highest level.
 

Grimesy87

Team Captain
May 22, 2018
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Woulds take their credibility over the other journos, since you know they have played the game at the highest level.
That's it. I'm not sure of other posters, but I enjoy hearing the "why" about the game. Lyon does it well, Carey too. Hodge when he commentates. I can read stats and see (example) Melbourne scoring 7 goals from 65 inside 50s, or Richmond having 12 centre clearances more.. but the ex players explain why, and how.

And in this case the ex player says “I think three men down they were valiant to hang on in that sort of victory,”

The journo who has no sense of team spirit or elation of playing says we over celebrate and when asked if she didnt think it was challenging under those circumstances, then finished by saying " Of course it was a challenging thing to do".

Very poor understanding of the game itself, as well as what goes into the lead up to that 2 hours every weekend.
 

ponsdale

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Sep 20, 2012
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To put people in a fan forum in the same conversation is ridiculous.
Apologies for not including a sarcasm emoji on the Bigfooty poster reference - I thought that tongue-in-cheek was obvious.

As you said, they supposedly seek inside information to cover the game. This is not happening anymore, because they lack accountability and make things up, which removes any trust the players have to talk to them without robotic answers. Look at the diatribe Barrett talks about sacking Richardson, how he did with Bolton all year. Need more proof, Jay Clark stating about Oliver being a target for GCS just today. Forget the fact he's contracted 2 more years and heavily involved with the Melbourne broader club community.

"Melbourne need outside speed and skill, could they trade for Zac Williams?" See I can make stuff up that sounds good too.
Making stuff up/random speculation/sensationalism is not limited non-player journalists. Cornes is crap at this and there are others I can't think of at the moment. Langdon is/was another? It's all about creating a name/profile for themselves.

As I said in my initial post, journalists discuss the game with numbers and data available to them, and former players (some with relevance, others without) can draw on the experience of similar times at their clubs during their career. Using this discussion as an example, Judd has the ability to recall games where he would have had players go down, and been up against it to win etc. He would recall times where the relief to win would have been pure joy, even for a bloke who shows minimal emotion. Not to mention he has a premiership medal. Many other PAID journalists who write articles can not do the same.

Give me Carey, Lyon, Reiwoldt, King and Hodge talking about footy any day. They discuss what's happening and why it happened.
I understand the contextual analysis provided by the five you have listed above (although I disagree with Lyon), and there are others such as Bartell, Roos and Brown. By the same point, there are plenty of ex-players who don't add that level of context, such as Ling, Mooney, Richo, also Peter Bell before he went back to Freo.

I really think we need a greater number of non-ex-players to be better commentators. It is not an one or other situation - they need to complement each other. There are so many conflicts of interest in the AFL, its insane.

Are you really arguing that only ex-musicians should comment on music, that only ex-politicians should comment on politics, or that only ex-chefs should comment on restaurants?
 

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SugarHealey

Team Captain
Dec 15, 2008
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Brendan Gale is a very good operator, without the aires and graces of those self loving suits, that have haunted the halls of the AFL in recent decades.
He's formed the Tigers plan, and got them back together again, and all pointing in line with one another.
A miraculous task.
 

Starburns_

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Reading through the recent efforts in this thread, it should be noted that posters are not to discuss moderation of the forum publicly. If a poster has a complaint about how something has been handled, they are to either contact a team board mod to raise it with admin, or they can contact admin directly.

Public criticism of moderation though can still result in infractions, regardless of how the initial complaint is resolved.

Chief Doss Gralin Starburns_ Ant_ Messenger Malifice

Could one of you please follow up. I sent a PM to Gralin but he might not be around at the minute.

I think it should be followed up. I read the comments at the time they were posted and I think this is unfair. Also it’s not the first time.
I'll look into it.
 

Topkent

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Reading through the recent efforts in this thread, it should be noted that posters are not to discuss moderation of the forum publicly. If a poster has a complaint about how something has been handled, they are to either contact a team board mod to raise it with admin, or they can contact admin directly.

Public criticism of moderation though can still result in infractions, regardless of how the initial complaint is resolved.



I'll look into it.
The point was it had been ignored, now it's atleast got some traction.
 

Starburns_

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The point was it had been ignored, now it's atleast got some traction.
It was not ignored because it was not taken further:

I reckon it's pissweak but also don't care enough to follow it up.
Whilst it might have gained some traction for the wider complaint, piling on about it in an open forum makes it less likely that an infraction is erased.
 

Topkent

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It was not ignored because it was not taken further:



Whilst it might have gained some traction for the wider complaint, piling on about it in an open forum makes it less likely that an infraction is erased.
It's a forum wide issue that continually is ignored. I've tried doing the PM route and that's been brushed off or ignored as well. It's much easier for you guys to ignore it and let it go away when it's hidden behind PMs
 

Starburns_

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It's a forum wide issue that continually is ignored. I've tried doing the PM route and that's been brushed off or ignored as well. It's much easier for you guys to ignore it and let it go away when it's hidden behind PMs
Well I know for a fact that that's not true. You contacted me a few months back seeking clarification on an issue you had on the MB. I provided my assessment of it, you still seemed dissatisfied by that. Not getting the outcome you want doesn't mean that you weren't heard though.

Either way, this is not the place for this discussion, as previously outlined.
 
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