General MFC Discussion 2.0

Pedantic

Club Legend
Jun 7, 2016
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"posters are not to discuss moderation of the forum publicly"

It's a private website so those in charge can run things how they want, but I can't see any way that suppressing discussion of (real or imagined) moderation issues is healthy for the community or in any way likely to ease concerns. The opposite if anything.

This is an issue with many forums not just BigFooty. Your average poster whinging about some moderation issue is much more likely to accept they're in the wrong if they're allowed to discuss it a few people they actually post with regularly tell them they deserved what they got. Or even just people who are independent to the situation.

Forums will always have moderation issues -- you're relying on volunteers helping out in their spare time and they're having to make frequent judgment calls about extremely subjective topics (e.g. what is considered offensive). Even full time professionals trying to do that would make errors and have inconsistencies. Better to be up front and open about it and work with the community to improve any issues than shut down public discussion.
 

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Cannon82

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 26, 2012
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Reading through the recent efforts in this thread, it should be noted that posters are not to discuss moderation of the forum publicly.
Why? If someone gets banned and its legitimate, then its fine, and if its not, then its bringing an issue to light. Why put a rule in place to protect people who like to wield a stick and throw their weight around?
 

00Stinger

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I've been given an infraction for a post on the scandals and rumors board that I knew to be accurate and was later proven to be 100% true.

When I contacted the mod the response was basically 'it is a s**t post', so the infraction stayed. When I contacted the mod a couple of months later once my post was confirmed to be 100% true. The response was crickets

Yet you can get a couple of mods openly trolling clubs on certain boards and that is fine........................
 

Gralin

Super Moderator
Apr 8, 2010
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"posters are not to discuss moderation of the forum publicly"

It's a private website so those in charge can run things how they want, but I can't see any way that suppressing discussion of (real or imagined) moderation issues is healthy for the community or in any way likely to ease concerns. The opposite if anything.

This is an issue with many forums not just BigFooty. Your average poster whinging about some moderation issue is much more likely to accept they're in the wrong if they're allowed to discuss it a few people they actually post with regularly tell them they deserved what they got. Or even just people who are independent to the situation.

Forums will always have moderation issues -- you're relying on volunteers helping out in their spare time and they're having to make frequent judgment calls about extremely subjective topics (e.g. what is considered offensive). Even full time professionals trying to do that would make errors and have inconsistencies. Better to be up front and open about it and work with the community to improve any issues than shut down public discussion.
If you have an issue with a mods actions the first point of call should be that mod or another mod on board in question. If you are not comfortable taking it up directly with the mod or board mod then you can go to a Super or site admin or you can email support@bigfooty.com

It is in the site terms and rules which everyone has to accept to post on the site.

The issue with publicly complaining is that other unrelated old gripes tend to get raised and some posters use it as an excuse to get personal or derail whichever thread it happens in.

I've been given an infraction for a post on the scandals and rumors board that I knew to be accurate and was later proven to be 100% true.

When I contacted the mod the response was basically 'it is a s**t post', so the infraction stayed. When I contacted the mod a couple of months later once my post was confirmed to be 100% true. The response was crickets

Yet you can get a couple of mods openly trolling clubs on certain boards and that is fine........................
Here is an example of what am talking about with unrelated complaints.

We are looking into the issue that happened yesterday
 

Tulip

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We won't win another game if Weed and Preuss are the tall targets. Weideman is but not a focal point yet, perhaps never will be. And Preuss is good at what he does but is hardly the second coming of Plugger.

One from left field - May to full forward this week? Or would that defeat the purpose of actually getting him. Good 1-on-1 and a beautiful kick. Probably best for him to gel back there with old mate Frosty and Lever though.
We managed to win a few games with Tom McDonald doing literally nothing, so I don't see why we can't win any more.
 

Proper Gander

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Sometimes being a sporadic poster on Bigfooty means you come into conversations with absolutely no context. So obviously something happened last night, was mopped up, and people are still arguing about what ever it was that started it.
I like that aspect to be honest. Using imagination and detective skills to piece together a scenario through the deleted posts plus missing content from your ignore list. It’s fascinating. Plus I’m sure I imagine much more interesting and dramatic events than the reality.
 

Starburns_

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Why? If someone gets banned and its legitimate, then its fine, and if its not, then its bringing an issue to light. Why put a rule in place to protect people who like to wield a stick and throw their weight around?
And people have different opinions over what is legitimate or fair. The post that started this off is being looked at, but at least one other poster took that as an opportunity to publicly criticise an infraction that they absolutely deserved (though I doubt they see it that way). It can snowball pretty quickly from legitimate gripe to mod bitching session.

All boards here are different communities (no 2 team boards are the same for example), often with different rules and interpretations/leniency, people aren't going to agree, but whatever the final decision is needs to remain final. Bringing MB moderation up publicly in a parochial environment like a team board does nothing but create negativity, especially when really, an infraction or deleted post is no one's business but the poster affected.

To further illustrate my point, this entire exchange started because a poster complained about being infracted for a post which did cross the line, but was also a response to another unacceptable post. The narrative that followed was 'mods are f***ed', which ignored the fact that the poster responded to the bait rather than report the post, which is how it's supposed to work.
 

Gysberts2Bate

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Jun 12, 2013
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And people have different opinions over what is legitimate or fair. The post that started this off is being looked at, but at least one other poster took that as an opportunity to publicly criticise an infraction that they absolutely deserved (though I doubt they see it that way).

All boards here are different communities (no 2 team boards are the same for example), often with different rules and interpretations/leniency, people aren't going to agree, but whatever the final decision is needs to remain final. Bringing MB moderation up publicly in a parochial environment like a team board does nothing but create negativity, especially when really, an infraction or deleted post is no one's business but the poster affected.

To further illustrate my point, this entire exchange started because a poster complained about being infracted for a post which did cross the line, but was also a response to another unacceptable post. The narrative that followed was 'mods are f***ed', which ignored the fact that the poster responded to the bait rather than report the post, which is how it's supposed to work.
I don't think criticising someone for their actions is 'responding to the bait'. Responding to the bait would be advancing the argument, unless you're saying that every time someone says something and then is held accountable for their actions the person who criticised them is 'responding to the bait'.
 

Gysberts2Bate

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  • Publicly complaining about, ranting over and criticising moderators and their actions is not accepted. Take it up with the moderator privately, then with Admins if you still have a problem. Contact Admins on this form or via email directly.
I'll gladly accept an infraction or even a ban given how long I've carried on for for everything I've done since I made my original post by complaining about the infraction publicly (unlike Israel Folau I'm willing to accept that I've breached conditions which I signed up for) but I don't see how that post itself breaches this particular clause.
 

Starburns_

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I don't think criticising someone for their actions is 'responding to the bait'. Responding to the bait would be advancing the argument, unless you're saying that every time someone says something and then is held accountable for their actions the person who criticised them is 'responding to the bait'.
He played the man rather than the topic, you in turn did the same. It's not your job to hold him accountable for that (nor does it accomplish anything), it's the mods. You want to hold a poster accounable yourself, go to Bay 13 where it's allowed.
 

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Topkent

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He played the man rather than the topic, you in turn did the same. It's not your job to hold him accountable for that (nor does it accomplish anything), it's the mods. You want to hold a poster accounable yourself, go to Bay 13 where it's allowed.
The mods regularly ignore people playing The man and detailing topics.
 

Gysberts2Bate

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He played the man rather than the topic, you in turn did the same. It's not your job to hold him accountable for that (nor does it accomplish anything), it's the mods. You want to hold a poster accounable yourself, go to Bay 13 where it's allowed.
Where do you draw the line though? If a poster who's a mod says something racist would I cop an infraction for calling them out and questioning if it's representative of the forum's values?

I don't see what the consequences would be of a moderator having responded to my post by saying 'we don't approve of representatives of the forum devaluing any part of its membership', other than perhaps it making BigFooty look better.
 

Starburns_

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Overall, aside from the no public discussion of moderation, the most important point to be made is that you won't get infracted if you don't cross the line yourself.

If someone gets provocative or personal on the MB, them starting it isn't going to be an excuse if you respond in the same manner. Fighting fire with fire isn't how it's supposed to work, you'll likely just both get infracted or threadbanned.

There's other avenues to resolve this, specifically the report function and PMs.

The mods regularly ignore people playing The man and detailing topics.
Do you report them or expect mods to find them on their own?

Bearing in mind also that disagreeing is not ignoring.

Where do you draw the line though? If a poster who's a mod says something racist would I cop an infraction for calling them out and questioning if it's representative of the forum's values?

I don't see what the consequences would be of a moderator having responded to my post by saying 'we don't approve of representatives of the forum devaluing any part of its membership', other than perhaps it making BigFooty look better.
It would probably depend on how hard you went at them and whether that significantly derailed a thread. Once again, the report function or a tag would be the most effective response to have the post removed.

As for the mod who made the remark, this exact instance has happened in the past, the mod was stood down afterwards.
 

Topkent

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Overall, aside from the no public discussion of moderation, the most important point to be made is that you won't get infracted if you don't cross the line yourself.

If someone gets provocative or personal on the MB, them starting it isn't going to be an excuse if you respond in the same manner. You'll likely just both get infracted or threadbanned.

There's other avenues to resolve this, specifically the report function and PMs.



Do you report them or expect mods to find them on their own?

Bearing in mind also that disagreeing is not ignoring.



It would probably depend on how hard you went at them and whether that significantly derailed a thread. Once again, the report function or a tag would be the most effective response to have the post removed.

As for the mod who made the remark, this exact instance has happened in the past, the mod was stood down afterwards.
On one occasion I reported it and a mod threadbanned me for reporting it. It was a particular Richmond poster who de rails multiple threads. I reported 3 of his posts and was banned myself despite not brining it up on the forum.

There are times I've deserved points for sure but I've also been targeted for nothing aswell
 

Gysberts2Bate

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Overall, aside from the no public discussion of moderation, the most important point to be made is that you won't get infracted if you don't cross the line yourself.

If someone gets provocative or personal on the MB, them starting it isn't going to be an excuse if you respond in the same manner. Fighting fire with fire isn't how it's supposed to work, you'll likely just both get infracted or threadbanned.
IIRC there was a post two below mine by another Dees supporter that just called out the post and the fact that it was a moderator without any fire :fireemoji: (though I’m not sure why this is the first time this has come up when the party line thus far has been that I was infracted for criticising a moderator even though it wasn’t for their moderation). I understand why their post would also have been deleted given Chism's post was deleted, but I do hope that second Dees poster wasn't infracted.

Anyway I'm happy to leave this here, clearly we are all at an impasse. Will be curious to hear of the results of the ongoing investigation.
 
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Cannon82

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 26, 2012
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And people have different opinions over what is legitimate or fair. The post that started this off is being looked at, but at least one other poster took that as an opportunity to publicly criticise an infraction that they absolutely deserved (though I doubt they see it that way). It can snowball pretty quickly from legitimate gripe to mod bitching session.

All boards here are different communities (no 2 team boards are the same for example), often with different rules and interpretations/leniency, people aren't going to agree, but whatever the final decision is needs to remain final. Bringing MB moderation up publicly in a parochial environment like a team board does nothing but create negativity, especially when really, an infraction or deleted post is no one's business but the poster affected.

To further illustrate my point, this entire exchange started because a poster complained about being infracted for a post which did cross the line, but was also a response to another unacceptable post. The narrative that followed was 'mods are f***ed', which ignored the fact that the poster responded to the bait rather than report the post, which is how it's supposed to work.
When someone disagrees with or criticizes the mods: "please understand why we're always right".
 

Ando727

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Dec 12, 2009
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For some reason, I was always under the impression that we were allowed to comment freely on the main board within our club board, and that our club mods will look after the integrity of this board. I guess that was an incorrect assumption - although I think it is how it should work. The battles and biases on the mainboard are comment-worthy, and the moderation subjected to same is also comment-worthy. This is a place we retreat to for a bit of support when things get ugly on the other boards. I guess we all know now - comment on mods and you risk a ban.
 

Gysberts2Bate

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For some reason, I was always under the impression that we were allowed to comment freely on the main board within our club board, and that our club mods will look after the integrity of this board. I guess that was an incorrect assumption - although I think it is how it should work. The battles and biases on the mainboard are comment-worthy, and the moderation subjected to same is also comment-worthy. This is a place we retreat to for a bit of support when things get ugly on the other boards. I guess we all know now - comment on mods and you risk a ban.
To be fair I haven’t been infracted for commenting on this board.
 

Gralin

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For some reason, I was always under the impression that we were allowed to comment freely on the main board within our club board, and that our club mods will look after the integrity of this board. I guess that was an incorrect assumption - although I think it is how it should work. The battles and biases on the mainboard are comment-worthy, and the moderation subjected to same is also comment-worthy. This is a place we retreat to for a bit of support when things get ugly on the other boards. I guess we all know now - comment on mods and you risk a ban.
Starburns_ and I were tagged in and I was contacted via PM regarding the issue on the main board. Complaining about the main board is fine, complaining about moderation as has been explained is something that is not allowed across the entire site.

If you have an issue with a particular mods behaviour the best course of action is to report the post or contact support@bigfooty.com it always has been, nothing has changed
 
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