General MFC Discussion 2.0

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blitznu

Club Legend
Jan 6, 2013
2,488
2,837
AFL Club
Melbourne
Pretty simple stat but our game plan is obviously around rushing forward when we have the ball as we win speed in attack nearly every week. But like i said earlier in the year most teams are winning when they are the quicker team without the ball in all our wins or games we've been in(dogs and eagles) we've won that stat every other time im pretty sure we've lost it. I know its obvious but yeah teams slow it down in attack reserving energy to get back in defense while we blow all our energy TRYING to attack then get burnt the other way. Hopefully simple Simon ******* realises that and changes this bullshit game plan that doesnt look like a ******* game plan at all.
 

Sylvia Saint

Norm Smith Medallist
May 20, 2004
7,434
6,894
Melbourne
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Melbourne
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I see Robbo has gone early with the Jordan Lewis retirement news. As they are good mates, I'm sure it's come straight from the horse's mouth.

Farewell Jordan. Won't go down as one of the best recruits in recent history, but he played his part and managed to eek out 50+ reasonable games in red and blue. Played a great 300th over in Adelaide too.
 

ponsdale

Premiership Player
Sep 20, 2012
4,129
4,566
Sydney
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I see Robbo has gone early with the Jordan Lewis retirement news. As they are good mates, I'm sure it's come straight from the horse's mouth.

Farewell Jordan. Won't go down as one of the best recruits in recent history, but he played his part and managed to eek out 50+ reasonable games in red and blue. Played a great 300th over in Adelaide too.

Press conference to announce his retirement at 1pm today.
 

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Johnny Karate

Club Legend
Apr 13, 2015
1,120
2,864
AFL Club
Melbourne
List analysis: Defenders
***Stats accurate up to Round 22, 2019. Player dimensions sourced from the club website***

Tall - Height - Weight - Age - Games
Frost 194cms 93kgs, 25, 90
Lever 195cms 91kgs, 23, 74
May 193cm 100kgs, 27, 131
O McDonald 196cms 100kgs, 23, 74
Petty 197cms 89kgs, 19, 11


Medium
Hore 190cms 84kgs, 23, 13
J Wagner 189cms 84kgs, 25, 40

Small
Hibberd 186cms 90kgs, 29, 141
Jetta 180cms 83kgs, 29, 148
Salem 183cm 81kgs, 24, 89

By the numbers:
Height
180-187cms: 3
188-192cms: 2
193-197cms: 5

Age
19-23: 4
24-28: 4
29+: 2

Games experience
0-50: 3
51-100: 4
100+:3

Summary
Melbourne have good tall defensive depth. While Lever and May are quality, Frost and Oscar McDonald are good cover at their best, at 190cms Hore offers flexibility. Petty is still a teenager who has shown decent marking ability in patches. Wagner’s future is uncertain but Frost’s pace and the versatility of Jetta and Hibberd don’t mean that Melbourne should be panicking over not having enough medium defenders on the list. Furthermore, the club could also look to utilities in Hunt, Jordon and Sparrow to cover this area in 2020. Hibberd and Jetta will be 30 in 2020 so another small defender capable of locking down speedy forwards wouldn’t go astray as Salem is more of a rebounding defender than shutdown.
 
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Blood Bomber

Team Captain
May 19, 2018
306
474
AFL Club
Essendon
Excuse the intrusion but I heard from a good source this morning that the fitness guy from Port Darren Burgess is heading your way. Anyone else heard this? There is a slight chance it meant he is just going to Melbourne the city too😂. Anyway hope we pick him up as we are in the need of a new head of fitness but wouldn't be sad to see you guys pick up someone of his caliber.
 

jhong

Club Legend
Apr 18, 2011
2,638
2,184
Wonthaggi
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Melbourne
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Excuse the intrusion but I heard from a good source this morning that the fitness guy from Port Darren Burgess is heading your way. Anyone else heard this? There is a slight chance it meant he is just going to Melbourne the city too😂. Anyway hope we pick him up as we are in the need of a new head of fitness but wouldn't be sad to see you guys pick up someone of his caliber.
Pretty sure we have him locked up mate .
 

TheCount

Moderator
Oct 13, 2015
9,106
13,489
Brisbane
AFL Club
Melbourne
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Excuse the intrusion but I heard from a good source this morning that the fitness guy from Port Darren Burgess is heading your way. Anyone else heard this? There is a slight chance it meant he is just going to Melbourne the city too😂. Anyway hope we pick him up as we are in the need of a new head of fitness but wouldn't be sad to see you guys pick up someone of his caliber.
Yeah he’s locked in to the Dees, was reported on 2-3 weeks ago
 

Johnny Karate

Club Legend
Apr 13, 2015
1,120
2,864
AFL Club
Melbourne
List analysis: Midfielders

Inside - Height Weight, Age, Games
Brayshaw 187cms 87kgs, 23, 79
Harmes 185cms 82kgs, 23, 90
Maynard 185cms 89kgs, 27, 2
Neitschke 184cms 82kgs, 19, 0
Oliver 187cms 85kgs, 22, 81
vandenBerg 188cms 93kgs, 27, 35
Viney 178cms 84kgs, 25, 118

Outside
Baker 184cms 82kgs, 21, 9
Kennedy-Harris 173cms 75kgs, 24, 38
Kolodjashnij 190cms 86kgs, 23, 80
Stretch 180cms 77kgs, 22, 46
C Wagner 181cms 75kgs, 22, 18

By the numbers:
Height
173-183cms: 4
184-187cms: 6
188cms+: 2

Weight
75-81kgs: 3
82-87kgs: 7
88kgs+: 2

Age
19-23: 8
24-28: 4
29+:0

Games experience
0-50: 7
51-100: 4
100+: 1

Summary:
The midfield group is still quite inexperienced. Brayshaw, Harmes & Oliver are on the verge but are yet to enter their prime years. Corey Maynard has already retired and there are question marks over the long term durability of vandenBerg and Kolodjashnij who when fit potentially provide important points of difference to a midfield that is heavily skewed towards towards the inside. Melbourne are desperately in need of outside midfielders given that Kennedy-Harris and Stretch haven’t made the grade. Baker and Corey Wagner have shown glimpses of form but still have a long way to go. Harmes, Brayshaw and the perennially injured vandenBerg can pinch hit to an extent but more specified role players are required. Petracca could make a foray into the midfield in 2020 if he can better develop his endurance and perhaps Mitch Hannan and Jayden Hunt could be looked at for more outside speed on the wings. Ultimately Melbourne need a better balance in both strategy and personnel in the midfield as they are presently far too geared towards inside play and one way running.
 
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Johnny Karate

Club Legend
Apr 13, 2015
1,120
2,864
AFL Club
Melbourne
List analysis: Forwards
Tall Height Weight, Age, Games
T McDonald 194cms 99kgs, 26, 161
T Smith 192cms 93kgs, 28, 13
Weideman 195cms 97kgs, 22, 31

Medium
Fritsch 188cms 82kgs, 22, 44
Hannan 189cms 86kgs, 25, 41
Melksham 186cms 83kgs, 27, 167
Petracca 186cms 96kgs, 23, 84

Small
Bedford 178cms 69kgs, 19, 0
Chandler 174cms 75kgs, 19, 1
Garlett 180cms 73kgs, 30, 185
Lockhart 177cms 75kgs, 23, 12
Neal-Bullen 182cms 80kgs, 23, 72
Spargo 173cms 71kgs, 19, 25

By the numbers:
Height
173-183cms: 6
184-191cms: 4
192-195cms: 3

Age
19-23: 8
24-28: 4
29+: 1

Games experience
0-50: 8
51-100: 2
100+:3

Summary
With Jeff Garlett on his way out the dearth of quality and experience in the Demons small forward stocks is stark. Alex Neal-Bullen has endured a terrible form slump in 2019 and Charlie Spargo has had a severe case of 2nd year blues. Lockhart showed some glimpses of form before his season was curtailed by injury. Basically the club is in need of small forwards who exert a lot of ground level pressure in 2020. The medium forward stocks look ok for the Demons, Bayley Fritsch looks more at home in this role and Melksham has been sorely missed for a significant chunk of 2019. Jayden Hunt has also shown he is capable of playing this role competently. The depth in tall forward stocks was badly exposed in 2019 although Harrison Petty showed signs he could be worth persisting with as a long term project. The club would’ve been hoping for far better seasons from T McDonald and Weideman as well as Preuss being more proficient in this area of the ground. Joel Smith was another earmarked to play a role as a tall but his season never got off the ground and Declan Keilty couldn’t make the most of his opportunities when they came. Tim Smith applies himself but is a tad injury prone and an honest workhorse at best. Tom McDonald and Sam Weideman need to perform if Melbourne are to bounce back in 2020, although some better ball movement would also massively help.
 
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jessie.dee

Draftee
Oct 8, 2004
13
11
Other Teams
Melbourne
I was really pissed at CEO Gary Perts comments the other week when he said realistically we are 3-5 years off success. But looking at these great analysis pieces, our age demographic is 22-23, so maybe Pert is actually being realistic. If thats the realistic timeframe to success, then is Goodwin really the development coach before the next appointment is the key man?
 

Sylvia Saint

Norm Smith Medallist
May 20, 2004
7,434
6,894
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Crusaders
I was really pi**ed at CEO Gary Perts comments the other week when he said realistically we are 3-5 years off success. But looking at these great analysis pieces, our age demographic is 22-23, so maybe Pert is actually being realistic. If thats the realistic timeframe to success, then is Goodwin really the development coach before the next appointment is the key man?
Surely he meant off field? Even the Gold Coast Suns could have success in that time frame. All it takes is about 12-24 months worth of good drafting/trading/development to be in the finals and from there anything can happen. Literally all 18 clubs could have success 3-5 years from now.
 

Johnny Karate

Club Legend
Apr 13, 2015
1,120
2,864
AFL Club
Melbourne
List Analysis: Rucks and Utilities.



Rucks Height Weight, Age, Games

Bradtke 204cms 91kgs, 19, 0

Gawn 208cms 109kgs, 27, 119

Preuss 206cms 114kgs, 24, 14



Summary:

Gawn is arguably the best ruckman in the competition. Preuss is also a very good backup, however, the club would’ve been hoping that Preuss could form a more potent tag team with Gawn as a ruck/forward in the senior team which has not worked in 2019. It would be good if Preuss could gain more experience as a forward at VFL level to try and achieve this. It could also have the benefit of getting Bradtke to experience rucking more consistently at VFL level.



Utilities

Keilty 194cms 94kgs, 24, 2

J Smith 191cms 81kgs, 23, 11

Dunkley 185cms 84kgs, 19, 5

Hunt 187cms 82kgs, 24, 67

Jordon 186cms 80kgs, 18, 0

Lewis 186cms 86kgs, 33, 318

Sparrow 183cms 82kgs, 19, 2

Walker 184cms 76kgs, 23, 0

Jones 180cm, 87kg, 31, 285



By the numbers:

Height

180-184cms: 3

185-190cms: 4

191cms+: 2



Weight

76-82kgs: 5

83-87kgs: 3

88kgs+: 1



Age

19-23: 5

24-28: 2

29+: 2



Games experience

0-50: 6

51-100: 1

100+: 2



Summary

Lewis has retired and Jones has just about a season left. Hunt has shown he can play either back or forward albeit not quite consistently. The rest of the utilities feature a group of largely undeveloped or untried players trying to find their feet at VFL level. Keilty could be out the door at season’s end. Sparrow, Jordon and Dunkley will look to move into the midfield longer term while gaining experience as flankers in the interim. Although injured, Walker is signed for another two years and Joel Smith will be trialled as a forward if can overcome his injuries.
 

Johnny Karate

Club Legend
Apr 13, 2015
1,120
2,864
AFL Club
Melbourne
I was really pi**ed at CEO Gary Perts comments the other week when he said realistically we are 3-5 years off success. But looking at these great analysis pieces, our age demographic is 22-23, so maybe Pert is actually being realistic. If thats the realistic timeframe to success, then is Goodwin really the development coach before the next appointment is the key man?
I don’t really know about 3-5 years. As Sylvia Saint posted, you can basically rebuild within that time.

There are obviously limitations to arbitrarily placing players in age, experience and role categories. That said I’d argue that we would like more players in the 24-28 years old with 100 games bracket.

As it stands the list is broken down as:
Age
19-23: 26, 55.3%
24-28: 16, 34.0%
29+:5, 10.7%

Games experience
0-50: 26
51-100: 11
100+: 10

That’s not to say: ooooh we have so many in the 19-23 age bracket & 0-50 games just wait 3 years and voila. For example, Billy Stretch is 22 years old with 46 games experience and nobody would be surprised if he was delisted. In short, young and not up to it is the same as old and not up to it. There are also outliers: only having 35 games experience means far less to 27 year old vandenBerg who is 188cm 93kgs than 31 games experience means for 22 year old Weideman. Also, not all improvement is linear, I still have faith in Viney getting back to his best however he is supposed to be in his prime now whereas he had far more impact as 22-23 year old in the 51-100 games bracket.

For further context here is a breakdown of age and games experience:
19-23 & 0-50: 18
24-28 & 0-50: 8

19-23 & 51-100: 8
24-28 & 51-100: 3

24-28 & 100+: 5
29+ & 100+: 5

24-28 & 100 games is where I think most players will enter their prime. The five who fit that criteria on the list are: Gawn, May, Melksham, T McDonald and Viney. The likes of Brayshaw, Lever, O McDonald, Oliver, Petracca & Salem will join them in the next 2 seasons, injury permitting.

All that said, none of this takes into account intangibles such as morale, confidence, leadership, hunger, work ethic, game plan and the improvement of other clubs. However, doing this exercise has helped me understand that overall the list is still somewhat immature. That doesn’t excuse 17th with 5-17 or mean that this isn’t a wasted year but it also doesn’t mean we’re f’ed and it’s time to rebuild again.
 

Topkent

Hall of Famer
Aug 29, 2010
35,750
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Canada
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I don’t really know about 3-5 years. As Sylvia Saint posted, you can basically rebuild within that time.

There are obviously limitations to arbitrarily placing players in age, experience and role categories. That said I’d argue that we would like more players in the 24-28 years old with 100 games bracket.

As it stands the list is broken down as:
Age
19-23: 26, 55.3%
24-28: 16, 34.0%
29+:5, 10.7%

Games experience
0-50: 26
51-100: 11
100+: 10

That’s not to say: ooooh we have so many in the 19-23 age bracket & 0-50 games just wait 3 years and voila. For example, Billy Stretch is 22 years old with 46 games experience and nobody would be surprised if he was delisted. In short, young and not up to it is the same as old and not up to it. There are also outliers: only having 35 games experience means far less to 27 year old vandenBerg who is 188cm 93kgs than 31 games experience means for 22 year old Weideman. Also, not all improvement is linear, I still have faith in Viney getting back to his best however he is supposed to be in his prime now whereas he had far more impact as 22-23 year old in the 51-100 games bracket.

For further context here is a breakdown of age and games experience:
19-23 & 0-50: 18
24-28 & 0-50: 8

19-23 & 51-100: 8
24-28 & 51-100: 3

24-28 & 100+: 5
29+ & 100+: 5

24-28 & 100 games is where I think most players will enter their prime. The five who fit that criteria on the list are: Gawn, May, Melksham, T McDonald and Viney. The likes of Brayshaw, Lever, O McDonald, Oliver, Petracca & Salem will join them in the next 2 seasons, injury permitting.

All that said, none of this takes into account intangibles such as morale, confidence, leadership, hunger, work ethic, game plan and the improvement of other clubs. However, doing this exercise has helped me understand that overall the list is still somewhat immature. That doesn’t excuse 17th with 5-17 or mean that this isn’t a wasted year but it also doesn’t mean we’re f’ed and it’s time to rebuild again.
That's insanely bad that we have 8 blokes who are over 24 who havent played 50 games yet
 

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