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Woodley should keep saying what he's saying just to get people so damn mad. Get people to tune in to see you get your arse kicked is a pretty good strategy in combat sports.

People want to say race has nothing to do with it (not on here, but I've seen it elsewhere). That's laughable to me. I haven't looked at everything Woodley's said, but let's take an extreme position and say that he says everyone who hates him is racist. Then the retort is that race has nothing to do with it. Both those positions are extreme and clearly nonsense imo.

I don't know how people can say in any seriousness that race has nothing to do with the way Woodley is viewed. We don't live in a post-racial world. To try and pretend we do is laughable. There are certainly very racist people who watch MMA and hate Woodley. Obviously it would be silly to say everyone who dislikes him is racist. Race has and still does play a huge part in boxing and to pretend MMA is any different would be dumb.

A fighter's nationality plays a large part in how certain people view them. Brazilian fans love Brazilian fighters and Australian fans love Australian fighters. This is pretty clear and I doubt anyone would claim that nationality has no bearing on who fans like. This doesn't mean that these fans hate fighters from other countries. I think this would surely play a part when it comes to the race and ethnicity of a fighter. Nationalism/patriotism is still widely accepted as being perfectly fine. Racism isn't. So the huge racists will generally hide their beliefs (of course you do get some people who are very openly and proudly racist as *). This makes it so hard to actually know who doesn't like someone because they're racist and who just dislikes someone for perfectly fine reasons. 100 years ago it would have been very easy to identify racists, but today it's a lot harder because of great advancements that have been made. That's got to be the only negative and everyone in their right mind would accept it given the improvements in society.

There are clearly racist fans, but I think the bigger issue for black fighters getting popular isn't racism, rather I think it's what I mentioned in a previous post. Fans whether they realise it or not very clearly gravitate towards fighters they can relate to. Black boxers have heaps of black fans, Latino boxers have heaps of Latino fans (although this also has a big nationality component to it). To think that the predominantly white MMA fanbase doesn't gravitate towards white fighters would be weird.


Do people really want to disagree with this tweet? Do people really want to say that Northcutt and VanZant being white isn't a factor in them being pushed so hard? The UFC doesn't do it out of racism though. They will push anyone who will make them a lot of money. It just so happens to be that in the US pushing white fighters has been the best strategy. There are unquestionably racist fans that facilitate this, but the biggest reason would be the unconscious feelings of the fanbase that are of a non-racist nature imo.
 
Somebody posted that nobody had a problem with Jon Jones or Anderson Silva.

Firstly, nobody had a problem with Jones or Silva (based on race) isn't correct unless you want to believe that racism doesn't exist because there's unquestionably racists that don't like Jones or Silva. Some people actually do believe that racism doesn't exist now.

Secondly, the belief that someone isn't affected or at least isn't affected a lot by racism and therefore someone else also isn't is akin to the 'I have a black friend defence'. It assumes racism is rational and consistent, and it most certainly is not.

These examples below are not at all comparable to MMA fans being racist to Woodley, but they very clearly illustrate the irrational and inconsistent nature of racism.



There's a transcript so you can just read it if you click on the link, but I think listening to the audio is worthwhile. A black man befriends KKK members and eventually they leave the KKK.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/01/neo...racists-discover-the-founders-wife-is-jewish/

Here we have a very recent story. A man who ran a Neo-Nazi website and had a similarly hateful podcast is married to a Jewish woman.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/07/world/europe/germany-hitler-reprieve/

I hate putting this here because of Godwin's law and all, but there isn't a clearer example to my point than this.
 

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Guy Threepwood said:
The biggest issue I have with it is that he sat out for 18 months demanding his title shot. I've got no problem with him doing that, but that was 18 months of his career where he could have solidified his claim to being the west welterweight in the world and made a boat load of money from sponsors/bonuses etc. Strikes me as a bit fishy to be honest when he could have been calling for these money fights prior to fighting for the belt, set himself up financially for the foreseeable future and then gone about creating a legacy as champion.
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He wouldn't have been making a boat load of money in sponsorships by fighting. The UFC has made sure of that. During those 18 months Woodley was making money doing other things. He was in the Straight Outta Compton movie and some Bollywood movie. He then got the title shot, while sitting out from fighting and almost surely making more money than he would have if he was fighting. Sounds like he was very smart. There needs to be more fighters like that because the promoters aren't looking out for the fighters. And bonuses are nothing that you can count on. He could have had a great fight or a great KO and not got a bonus. Also bonuses are what, $50,000? No boat loads there. Unless you mean the secret bonuses that nobody has any clue about how often they're given out or how much they are.

He sat out for 18 months and then got a title shot. Now that he's the champion he believes he has more leverage than he had before. He can't even get these money fights now that he's champion. What hope did he have before he was champion? There's no way he was getting those fights before he won the belt. And he's wanted a fight with Nick Diaz since the Strikeforce days.

He wants to make as much money as possible, which should be the goal of all fighters. People like Cerrone being willing to fight every other weekend and at least until recently not being overly concerned about the money he makes is a big reason why fighters get treated like s**t. Rousey is another dumb fighter because she could have made so much more money if she didn't play it so nice with the UFC. Fighters like Lesnar, the Diaz brothers, McGregor and Woodley get it. If more fighters did, the sport would treat them better.
 
Guy Threepwood said:
The biggest issue I have with it is that he sat out for 18 months demanding his title shot. I've got no problem with him doing that, but that was 18 months of his career where he could have solidified his claim to being the west welterweight in the world and made a boat load of money from sponsors/bonuses etc. Strikes me as a bit fishy to be honest when he could have been calling for these money fights prior to fighting for the belt, set himself up financially for the foreseeable future and then gone about creating a legacy as champion.
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It's because he's not very good and he knows that. He's afraid he'd lose his chance. That division is so tight. Any of the top four-five could easily be the champion. Which is why he is so desperate to duck and dodge opportunities
 
phantom13 said:
BradWCE couldn't agree more
FlowersByIrene
Couldn't agree less... Some of the things you say.
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Do you think Woodley is a clear cut champion in that division?

I think he is very much in the middle of a thick bunch at the top of that division and it's why he is trying to make his time as champion last as long as possible by trying to fight Bisping/McGregor etc.
 
FlowersByIrene said:
Do you think Woodley is a clear cut champion in that division?

I think he is very much in the middle of a thick bunch at the top of that division and it's why he is trying to make his time as champion last as long as possible by trying to fight Bisping/McGregor etc.
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Well he beat a unanimous champ by knocking him into next week then beat the clear cut #1 contender so yeh... I do.
 
BradWCE said:
He wouldn't have been making a boat load of money in sponsorships by fighting. The UFC has made sure of that. During those 18 months Woodley was making money doing other things. He was in the Straight Outta Compton movie and some Bollywood movie. He then got the title shot, while sitting out from fighting and almost surely making more money than he would have if he was fighting. Sounds like he was very smart. There needs to be more fighters like that because the promoters aren't looking out for the fighters. And bonuses are nothing that you can count on. He could have had a great fight or a great KO and not got a bonus. Also bonuses are what, $50,000? No boat loads there. Unless you mean the secret bonuses that nobody has any clue about how often they're given out or how much they are.
Click to expand...

Filming for Straight Outta Compton occurred prior to his fight with Dong Hyun Kim and I'm pretty sure his uncredited role (according to IMDB) wouldn't have made him anywhere near the reported $139k he got for fighting Gastelum ($65k fight and win bonus, $9k from Gastelum missing weight). Considering this is before the days of reebok (and a guy like Brendan Schaub was boasting about making $100k plus on sponsors per fight) had he have been fighting, winning and picking up a bonus or two along the way he could well have been making $250k or so per fight. I don't think the odd in studio appearance on Fox and a Bollywood movie would quite add up to that.

BradWCE said:
He sat out for 18 months and then got a title shot. Now that he's the champion he believes he has more leverage than he had before. He can't even get these money fights now that he's champion. What hope did he have before he was champion? There's no way he was getting those fights before he won the belt. And he's wanted a fight with Nick Diaz since the Strikeforce days.
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I supported his decision to wait for the title fight after being told he was next in line after the Hendricks fight fell through but that decision is hardly going to do much for your brand in the meantime. Out of sight, out of mind rings true in that case.

Yes he chased a fight with Diaz in Strikeforce, but did he deserve it? He was often accused of being a boring fighter back in those days and his best win prior to fighting for the title which Diaz vacated was Daley who has always struggled against good wrestlers. That he was the #1 contender during his 18 month sabbatical would definitely have made the fight more interesting to a comebacking Diaz (had he not been suspended at the time).

BradWCE said:
He wants to make as much money as possible, which should be the goal of all fighters. People like Cerrone being willing to fight every other weekend and at least until recently not being overly concerned about the money he makes is a big reason why fighters get treated like s**t. Rousey is another dumb fighter because she could have made so much more money if she didn't play it so nice with the UFC. Fighters like Lesnar, the Diaz brothers, McGregor and Woodley get it. If more fighters did, the sport would treat them better.
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Most people do. Cerrone fought anyone and everyone in order to make money. He built a huge fan following and has been in the UFC's good graces as a result. Rousey I certainly wouldn't classify as dumb, she was the sole reason Dana decided to bring the women's division to the UFC and became one of the highest earners in the sport as a result. She's also picked up numerous sponsorship deals, Hollywood work (which she clearly doesn't merit based on her acting skills) and SI covers from her time with the UFC. Lesnar came with the backing of millions of UFC fans, so the money he was bringing with him was always going to make him an outlier in terms of what he could demand from the UFC.

Like you I would like to see the fighters treated better and paid better. I hope the MMAAA helps achieve this, but I don't think Woodley looking to line his own pockets with mostly irrelevant fights while denying worthy contenders a shot at the title does anything for the cause.
 
FlowersByIrene said:
It's because he's not very good and he knows that. He's afraid he'd lose his chance. That division is so tight. Any of the top four-five could easily be the champion. Which is why he is so desperate to duck and dodge opportunities
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Nah, he's very good, but I do agree that he's not confident of holding the belt.
 

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I pulled a Buffer, the Thompson fight was a draw, to clarify, he has defended his title as many times as Cody Garbrandt and Conor McGregor, he's no different in that regard.

This is kinda pointless but I think suggesting he's not the rightful champion or that he's at best middling in his division is just ridiculous.
 
The WW division really isn't as stacked as it was a year or so back.

With rory gone.. Thompson, Lawler, Cerrone and Maia are probably the only guys i see that have a title run in them and maybe Magny depending on how he develops, but he isnt there yet.

Big rig is done, Condit is basically retired at this point, Larkin still hasnt been offered a contract when i last heard from him and now we are down to guys like story, masvidal and DHK.

http://rankingmma.com/ufc-rankings/welterweight/

Apart from Thomson, who i favour in the rematch because he can make the most technical adjustments and he survived the best woodley had, Woodley is a decent favourite in all those match ups imo.

But who knows what happens in MMA.

200w.gif
 
FlowersByIrene said:
It's because he's not very good and he knows that. He's afraid he'd lose his chance. That division is so tight. Any of the top four-five could easily be the champion. Which is why he is so desperate to duck and dodge opportunities
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Lol. Do you realise how hilarious your posts are? What's the difference between what your god, Conor McGregor, is doing and what Woodley is attempting to do? McGregor became champion and then left the division immediately. Woodley's trying to get fights outside his division and he's ducking and dodging? Both are doing the same s**t, but one is actually getting to do it because he's a huge draw. Okay, fine that's how this works but don't pretend that they both aren't just trying to get paid more money.

Guy Threepwood said:
Filming for Straight Outta Compton occurred prior to his fight with Dong Hyun Kim and I'm pretty sure his uncredited role (according to IMDB) wouldn't have made him anywhere near the reported $139k he got for fighting Gastelum ($65k fight and win bonus, $9k from Gastelum missing weight). Considering this is before the days of reebok (and a guy like Brendan Schaub was boasting about making $100k plus on sponsors per fight) had he have been fighting, winning and picking up a bonus or two along the way he could well have been making $250k or so per fight. I don't think the odd in studio appearance on Fox and a Bollywood movie would quite add up to that.
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He broke his foot against Gastelum. That fight was at the end of January 2015. That would have kept him out for a while. The Reebok deal started in July 2015. Not really much opportunity to get a fight before the Reebok deal started given that he was recovering from a broken foot and 5 and a half months after the fight he suffered it in the Reebok deal kicked in. Woodley was scheduled to fight Hendricks in October 2015, but through no fault of his own that fight was cancelled. Then he was 'guaranteed' a title shot when that fight fell through. He decided to wait for the title shot and ended up getting it.

I've realised my initial post on this was incorrect. Now I've looked at the details closer and given you the correct timeframe. "He sat out for 18 months" isn't a very worthwhile talking point given the facts. He was told he'd get a title shot and then sat out for about 10 months.

Guy Threepwood said:
I supported his decision to wait for the title fight after being told he was next in line after the Hendricks fight fell through but that decision is hardly going to do much for your brand in the meantime. Out of sight, out of mind rings true in that case.

Yes he chased a fight with Diaz in Strikeforce, but did he deserve it? He was often accused of being a boring fighter back in those days and his best win prior to fighting for the title which Diaz vacated was Daley who has always struggled against good wrestlers. That he was the #1 contender during his 18 month sabbatical would definitely have made the fight more interesting to a comebacking Diaz (had he not been suspended at the time).
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I told you he's wanted the Diaz fight since Strikeforce to counter your point that he could have been calling for these fights before. He couldn't fight Diaz when Diaz was suspended (which was and still is absolute bullshit by the way). You said he could have been calling for these money fights when he wasn't fighting. He clearly couldn't have got a Diaz fight because Diaz was suspended. Then he won the title and wanted a fight with Diaz. Woodley has been very consistent in wanting this 'money fight'.

He wouldn't have got any of these fights he's calling for now before he won the title and he's still not getting them. Your point was that he should have been calling for these fights that he wouldn't have got before he won the title if he's calling for them now. Now he has a better shot at getting the fights and still can't. He knew he wasn't getting them before he won the title. After he won the title he thought he could get them and tried to. I really don't see what the issue is here.

You're arguing from a fan's perspective. You're not looking at it from Woodley's perspective. He wants these fights and always has, but wouldn't get them. You don't want these fights now that he's the champion. It's fine to say that you don't want to see these fights without acting like Woodley's doing something wrong by wanting a bigger payday.


Guy Threepwood said:
Most people do. Cerrone fought anyone and everyone in order to make money. He built a huge fan following and has been in the UFC's good graces as a result. Rousey I certainly wouldn't classify as dumb, she was the sole reason Dana decided to bring the women's division to the UFC and became one of the highest earners in the sport as a result. She's also picked up numerous sponsorship deals, Hollywood work (which she clearly doesn't merit based on her acting skills) and SI covers from her time with the UFC. Lesnar came with the backing of millions of UFC fans, so the money he was bringing with him was always going to make him an outlier in terms of what he could demand from the UFC.

Like you I would like to see the fighters treated better and paid better. I hope the MMAAA helps achieve this, but I don't think Woodley looking to line his own pockets with mostly irrelevant fights while denying worthy contenders a shot at the title does anything for the cause.
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Yes, Cerrone fought anyone and everyone. So did Gary Goodridge. Jordan Parsons died when he was 25 and already had CTE. You should be trying to get as much money as possible in this brutal sport. It's pretty clear Cerrone left money on the table. Cerrone needs to fight so often because he blows through his money quickly. He needed the fights to get paid and wouldn't have been able to negotiate very well because of it. The UFC realises they can underpay someone who is always willing to step up. Cerrone's great for MMA fans, but not so great for other fighters because him accepting unders allows the UFC to lowball others. They can say you're asking for too much, we can just give Cerrone a buzz instead. And then those fighters may need to take the lower offer because Cerrone's willing to get underpaid.

Rousey left heaps of money on the table because she was willing to play it too nice with the UFC. The money is either going into her pocket or staying put in the UFC's. She was in a position where she could demand more than she got, like McGregor, but didn't do it. The UFC realises they can underpay a huge draw like Rousey, what hope do any other fighters have of getting what they're worth?

Of course Woodley isn't looking out for other fighters. He's looking out for himself. That's pretty clear. Woodley is doing what fighters should do, try and get paid as much as possible. You say that what Woodley's doing does nothing to help fighters. I'd say that what Cerrone and Rousey have done has done even less to help their fellow fighters. Woodley doesn't have much leverage but at least he's trying to get as much as he can from the UFC.
 
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Guy Threepwood said:
Filming for Straight Outta Compton occurred prior to his fight with Dong Hyun Kim and I'm pretty sure his uncredited role (according to IMDB) wouldn't have made him anywhere near the reported $139k he got for fighting Gastelum ($65k fight and win bonus, $9k from Gastelum missing weight). Considering this is before the days of reebok (and a guy like Brendan Schaub was boasting about making $100k plus on sponsors per fight) had he have been fighting, winning and picking up a bonus or two along the way he could well have been making $250k or so per fight. I don't think the odd in studio appearance on Fox and a Bollywood movie would quite add up to that.
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http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2015/10/...eight-myles-jury-reebok-expenses-fighter-pay-

Forgot about this in my last post. $250,000 doesn't accurately reflect what he'd make. There are heaps of reductions from that money that people don't factor in. He's not actually making $250,000 for the fight. Myles Jury did a good job in showing that to fans in this article. 5-10% of a fight purse goes to the gym/team. Management fees can be 20%. Coaching fees, medicals and other expenses can be 30%. Then there's taxes. I don't know if bonuses are also paid out in these percentages to the team, management, etc. but I don't see why they wouldn't be. So $250,000 on paper is a lot less in reality.

Plus, you're saying he COULD be paid this amount. You have a lot more certainty in what you're getting paid in the other things he's done outside of fighting. Taking a guarenteed amount is a smarter decision than gambing on yourself. He could have made $250,000 a fight (before everything is paid out to his team, etc.) He could have made just $65,000. Taking a certain $150,000 outside the cage is better than risking getting $65,000 when you're hoping to get something like $250,000.

Another thing. Fighters like Cole Konrad and Al Iaquinta have done more to help their fellow fighters than most active fighters have. Deciding to do something else if you don't feel you're getting paid adequately is the best decision for everyone.
 
Ever wonder why Sik-Jitsu doesn't produce many good strikers? Julianna Pena, Sicilia and Chiesa are the most well known fighters that train there I think.

This is why:


Imagine what this guy thinks of someone like Oscar De La Hoya. Got finished with a body shot by those huge padded boxing gloves. Embarrassing stuff, no doubt. This guy is hilarious. He thinks much better boxers than you're ever going to find in MMA are mentally weak because they get dropped by body shots. I would like to hear him talk about the impact hitting the liver has on someone. I'm sure it'll be very scientific.

If Pena can't take Shevchenko down she's going to get absolutely mauled haha.


I've watched a lot of combat sports, but I've never seen a punch so brilliant. He should have honed his craft at a boxing gym before this though, because without context this punch absolutely sucked. Of course you get the typical bullshit from certain liberals who say to be nice to Nazis. * that.
 
FlowersByIrene said:
I'm not even going to respond to that trash Bradwce.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
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That's what someone says when they when they know they've been owned.
 
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