Unsolved Gerard Ross - Abducted Kent st Rockingham WA 1997

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ms finch

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Perhaps the person who killed Gerard is in plain sight, listed upon a sexual offender’s register – thinking he may have committed a sexual crime after 1997 - involving a boy aged between 8-12. As there were other incidents of lifts being offered within the Rockingham area it’s likely the offender was local to Rockingham or a nearby suburb. Rockingham is the largest city within a wide radius, so the POI may have been drawn for work or shopping.

Thinking if GRs killer was a pedophile, the abductor may not have been able to go through with an intended evil act. One example, and nothing to do with GRs killer, is NSWs Phillip Wayne Lett who abducted a 6-year-old for intentions of pedophilia, but couldn’t go through with the act – he was aged 32. Instead, Lett brutally killed the young boy and left him. A heinous NSW crime occurring in 1992 7News

Lots of children have been offered lifts whilst waiting at a bus stop. I suppose it’s the perfect opportunity for someone to stop and offer a lift.

https://www.wa.gov.au/service/security/law-enforcement/access-registered-sex-offender-information

http://www.australian-people-records.com/Western-Australia-Sex-Offenders-Register.php
Good post. One thing I definitely think is that the killing of Gerard Ross was not the perpetrator’s only crime in their lifetime. It is too vicious and brutal to be something isolated and random in their lives. They must have a criminal history before and/or after.
 

Likeamystery

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Good post. One thing I definitely think is that the killing of Gerard Ross was not the perpetrator’s only crime in their lifetime. It is too vicious and brutal to be something isolated and random in their lives. They must have a criminal history before and/or after.
I hate to say it, but here goes. If GRs killer was a pedophile who abducted for the act of pedophilia but wasn't able to execute the crime under such conditions or circumstances, I doubt he stopped. He probably just became more sneaky in seeking out an easier target.

He may have settled with a woman who already had children - boy/s pre-teen
Went on to work within the care industry - young boys with autism etc.
Became a primary school teacher or worked within the boy scouts.
Travelled interstate or overseas.
Went to prison for another crime

By now, the person is probably aged between 50 and 60.
 

ms finch

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I hate to say it, but here goes. If GRs killer was a pedophile who abducted for the act of pedophilia but wasn't able to execute the crime under such conditions or circumstances, I doubt he stopped. He probably just became more sneaky in seeking out an easier target.

He may have settled with a woman who already had children - boy/s pre-teen
Went on to work within the care industry - young boys with autism etc.
Became a primary school teacher or worked within the boy scouts.
Travelled interstate or overseas.
Went to prison for another crime

By now, the person is probably aged between 50 and 60.
Not sure why you “hate to say it”. I think all of that is perfectly logical.
 

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zedx

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I hate to say it, but here goes. If GRs killer was a pedophile who abducted for the act of pedophilia but wasn't able to execute the crime under such conditions or circumstances, I doubt he stopped. He probably just became more sneaky in seeking out an easier target.

He may have settled with a woman who already had children - boy/s pre-teen
Went on to work within the care industry - young boys with autism etc.
Became a primary school teacher or worked within the boy scouts.
Travelled interstate or overseas.
Went to prison for another crime

By now, the person is probably aged between 50 and 60.
or maybe was unable to execute due to physical or physiological reason? Got angry/embarrassed and that is why he killed GR. Also, although two men were seen with GR, one may have just been helping his friend to find a victim. He may have played no other role, other than the abduction.
 

ms finch

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or maybe was unable to execute due to physical or physiological reason? Got angry/embarrassed and that is why he killed GR. Also, although two men were seen with GR, one may have just been helping his friend to find a victim. He may have played no other role, other than the abduction.
Yes, sexual dysfunction at the time could easily have sent someone like that over the edge. Especially if Gerard was feisty and fought back. Someone like that could well have had major rage issues.
 

ms finch

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I was just thinking about the fact that it was revealed at one point that police were split on who they thought did this - one group was convinced it was one person; another group was convinced it was another person. Am I correct that this was in the early stages of the investigation?

I wonder if one of those suspects was Brett Cowan, Daniel Morcombe’s killer? I recall police said they thought the perpetrator could be the same person. Then Cowan was caught and they ruled him out because he was in custody at the time (I’ll pay that alibi).

Could that mean that they have only one prime suspect now and that was why the press release about the reward was so specific?
 

ms finch

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Does anyone know if Wheeler & Urquhart are/have been suspects in this awful crime?
They’ve been discussed in here a few pages back, so you’d hope police have looked at them. Anyone we can come up with they surely must have, especially someones as obvious as those two.

I have not heard any official details about any specific suspects except for Brett Cowan who they stated they had looked into and ruled out.

Given Cowan was on their radar, you’d think that other child killers or serious child sex offenders, particularly duos, have been as well. (Cowan had a history of viciously attacking children from before Gerard’s disappearance.)
 

Gpop

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They’ve been discussed in here a few pages back, so you’d hope police have looked at them. Anyone we can come up with they surely must have, especially someones as obvious as those two.

I have not heard any official details about any specific suspects except for Brett Cowan who they stated they had looked into and ruled out.

Given Cowan was on their radar, you’d think that other child killers or serious child sex offenders, particularly duos, have been as well. (Cowan had a history of viciously attacking children from before Gerard’s disappearance.)
Thanks Ms Finch I remember seeing the previous discussion now that I've re-read it!
 

ms finch

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Thanks Ms Finch I remember seeing the previous discussion now that I've re-read it!
No worries. I only remembered it when I went looking for something the other day. It’s very hard to keep all the information in my head, especially across multiple threads!
 

Krusty Crab

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or maybe was unable to execute due to physical or physiological reason? Got angry/embarrassed and that is why he killed GR. Also, although two men were seen with GR, one may have just been helping his friend to find a victim. He may have played no other role, other than the abduction.
i believe it to be unlikely that the second possible suspect was just "helping his friend to find a victim." Pedofilia is one of the most abhorrent acts a person can be involved in. Pedofiles are so disliked, they need to be separated from other criminals in jail, and are reviled in general society. for someone to want to help out a mate and find a victim for them, you would think this person is either a pedofile themselves, or someone who is so far removed from the premise of civilised society that he would of been involved in other crimes prior, and quite possibly of been on the police radar already.
 

Krusty Crab

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out of interest - does anyone know of any crimes in the nearby area around the same time as the disappearance of GR, that could possibly be linked? Eg other kidnapping attempts, sexual assaults, crimes of sexual persuasion such as public masturbation/flashing, people hanging around schools, etc? im considering if pedofilia was the motive for the disappearance, then there are a few possible different types of offenders.

Offender type 1. Cleanskin, keeps their urges hidden, appears as a normal member of the public. this sort of offender is most likely to attack children known to themselves, and unlikely to show propensity for risky extreme behaviour such as the GR attack which would spotlight their desires.

Offender type 2. Criminally adept pedofile. This person has likely been suspected of or even charged of other sexual offences against minors. They understand the ramifications of being caught out. quite possibly abused themselves as a child. this sort of attacker is possibly likely to have a substance abuse issue, which would make them behave erratically, and lash out at perceived injustices to themselves. usually no set location, has a shifting area of interest.

offender type 3. the closet pedofile, has sexual urges towards minors, but accepts this is sick and represses. unlikely to be known to police or other family members. likely to attack minors unknown to themselves. in my opinion this offender would be likely to commit 'minor' assaults, such as filming, photographing, or touching victims. possibility of anger after attacks, with physical retaliation to victims for "making them behave this way."

IMO if the person who took GR did so for pedofilic means, then i believe the perpetrator is most likely offender type 2. this presents positives and negatives for the investigator -

positives -

offender is most likely known to police
likely to have prior sexual based offences on record
quite likely has a history of substance abuse on record
associates are usually well known, as not many will be friends with this sort of person

negatives -

unpredictable behaviour
travels around
transient lifestyle makes it hard to nail down locations of offender at critical times

unfortunately without much detail in witness reports, if it was offender type 2 then it will be hard to track them down. a description may help narrow the list of names, however a transient nature makes it hard to find the offender. im interested in if there was any other crimes in the local area around the same time that could be attributed to an offender such as this. in my opinion the police should be looking at the following local crimes in the few days before and after GR kidnaping:

stolen cars - especially any that could match witness descriptions
drug dealing - especially in the immediate local area
petty theft - more so of items such as cash or cash substitutes, or items readily exchanged for cash/drugs
sexual offences - anything from peeping/flashing to rape
alcohol related offences such as drink driving or public intoxication
 

zedx

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i believe it to be unlikely that the second possible suspect was just "helping his friend to find a victim." Pedofilia is one of the most abhorrent acts a person can be involved in. Pedofiles are so disliked, they need to be separated from other criminals in jail, and are reviled in general society. for someone to want to help out a mate and find a victim for them, you would think this person is either a pedofile themselves, or someone who is so far removed from the premise of civilised society that he would of been involved in other crimes prior, and quite possibly of been on the police radar already.
Probably need to explain myself better, a lot of 'devious people' seek out and surround themselves with people who they are able to manipulate due their 'lower mentality' or dependence. They tell them they are their number one man, best friend etc. This enables them to have a largely loyal and compliant wingman who will be happy to do almost anything asked, In return they receive either (false) friendship or the substance of their choice. I have seen this happen and it very sad. I do think this is a plausible scenario.
 

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Eaglette01

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Perth has it's own Pedo Hunters now:

Two vigilantes pretending to be a 14-year-old boy online have lured an alleged predator to a Perth park before making a citizens arrest.

The men say within five minutes of creating the hoax profile last week they received 30 messages from adult men in Perth asking for sexual encounters with the fake teenager.


 

zedx

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Perth has it's own Pedo Hunters now:

Two vigilantes pretending to be a 14-year-old boy online have lured an alleged predator to a Perth park before making a citizens arrest.

The men say within five minutes of creating the hoax profile last week they received 30 messages from adult men in Perth asking for sexual encounters with the fake teenager.


OMG i saw that last night on the news!! what a crazy thing to do!!
 

imho

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i'm interested in if there was any other crimes in the local area around the same time that could be attributed to an offender such as this. in my opinion the police should be looking at the following local crimes in the few days before and after GR kidnaping:

stolen cars - especially any that could match witness descriptions
drug dealing - especially in the immediate local area
petty theft - more so of items such as cash or cash substitutes, or items readily exchanged for cash/drugs
sexual offences - anything from peeping/flashing to rape
alcohol related offences such as drink driving or public intoxication
graffiti / street art
is a popular crime we should add to your list, and relevant considering GR's art interest.
maybe he had witnessed a work in progress?
"...you're not allowed to do that. i'm telling on you!"
or perhaps he mouthed off unwanted critique, or defaced a piece by adding his own small touch and a tag?


imho
 

Likeamystery

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Does anyone know if Wheeler & Urquhart are/have been suspects in this awful crime?
The 14-year-old boy who they'd abducted was held captive for 20 days, and during that time, made aware he would eventually be killed.
There was mention that the DNA from GR, along with Ciara Glennon's was sent to the UK, for more sophisticated analysis. I suppose once they'd arrested Wheeler and Urquhart, their DNA was taken and added into the DNA database. Obviously, neither one matched the DNA found on GR.

It would be interesting to know, how long Wheeler and Urquhart had been a couple, and whether either one had lived or worked in Rockingham, had driven a cream/beige sedan or faded maroon/brown station wagon.

I hope MACRO had asked Rockingham's local drug rehab centre for a list of people who'd stayed there on 14 October 1997. The Cold Case Squad need to keep checking to see if any of those people have possibly, since been charged with attempted abduction or pedophilia.

I've done some reading on the Kelmscott abduction but don't know how they were caught. Does anyone know how they were apprehended?

Were there any signs that GR had been held captive prior to being killed?
 

zedx

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The 14-year-old boy who they'd abducted was held captive for 20 days, and during that time, made aware he would eventually be killed.
There was mention that the DNA from GR, along with Ciara Glennon's was sent to the UK, for more sophisticated analysis. I suppose once they'd arrested Wheeler and Urquhart, their DNA was taken and added into the DNA database. Obviously, neither one matched the DNA found on GR.

It would be interesting to know, how long Wheeler and Urquhart had been a couple, and whether either one had lived or worked in Rockingham, had driven a cream/beige sedan or faded maroon/brown station wagon.

I hope MACRO had asked Rockingham's local drug rehab centre for a list of people who'd stayed there on 14 October 1997. The Cold Case Squad need to keep checking to see if any of those people have possibly, since been charged with attempted abduction or pedophilia.

I've done some reading on the Kelmscott abduction but don't know how they were caught. Does anyone know how they were apprehended?

Were there any signs that GR had been held captive prior to being killed?
BBM- you would hope they were doing this, just because they had no profile at the time doesnt mean they dont have one now! Just a matter of being caught.
 

GreyCrow

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The 14-year-old boy who they'd abducted was held captive for 20 days, and during that time, made aware he would eventually be killed.
There was mention that the DNA from GR, along with Ciara Glennon's was sent to the UK, for more sophisticated analysis. I suppose once they'd arrested Wheeler and Urquhart, their DNA was taken and added into the DNA database. Obviously, neither one matched the DNA found on GR.
Then logically BRE is (so far) cleared unless there is something after sentencing

Yet the latest plea asking for ''intimate partners'' suggests otherwise
 

Kurve

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It would be interesting to know, how long Wheeler and Urquhart had been a couple, and whether either one had lived or worked in Rockingham, had driven a cream/beige sedan or faded maroon/brown station wagon.
According to this poster here Wheeler and Urquhart weren't in a relationship until well after Gerard was abducted.

 

Kurve

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Yet the latest plea asking for ''intimate partners'' suggests otherwise
It looks like the police might be appealing to one of the two guys as a couple, seen in a scuffle with Gerard on Kent Street the day he went missing.

I'm thinking they don't have any DNA though because it seems almost impossible now that with all the tools investigators have not just offenders via their DNA profiles already in police files but in genealogy open source websites. They might not be allowed to use what they find on open source websites in court but that certainly doesn't mean they aren't using them to put a name to the profile.
 

Krusty Crab

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It looks like the police might be appealing to one of the two guys as a couple, seen in a scuffle with Gerard on Kent Street the day he went missing.

I'm thinking they don't have any DNA though because it seems almost impossible now that with all the tools investigators have not just offenders via their DNA profiles already in police files but in genealogy open source websites. They might not be allowed to use what they find on open source websites in court but that certainly doesn't mean they aren't using them to put a name to the profile.
there has also been other advancements in DNA technology. ive read that if scientists have a sample, they can create a basic identikit of your appearance based on certain genetic info, such as eye colour, hair colour, etc. you would think things like this would be looked at by police regards old cases that have DNA technology.
 

Krusty Crab

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The 14-year-old boy who they'd abducted was held captive for 20 days, and during that time, made aware he would eventually be killed.
There was mention that the DNA from GR, along with Ciara Glennon's was sent to the UK, for more sophisticated analysis. I suppose once they'd arrested Wheeler and Urquhart, their DNA was taken and added into the DNA database. Obviously, neither one matched the DNA found on GR.

It would be interesting to know, how long Wheeler and Urquhart had been a couple, and whether either one had lived or worked in Rockingham, had driven a cream/beige sedan or faded maroon/brown station wagon.

I hope MACRO had asked Rockingham's local drug rehab centre for a list of people who'd stayed there on 14 October 1997. The Cold Case Squad need to keep checking to see if any of those people have possibly, since been charged with attempted abduction or pedophilia.

I've done some reading on the Kelmscott abduction but don't know how they were caught. Does anyone know how they were apprehended?

Were there any signs that GR had been held captive prior to being killed?
regards the apprehension of wheeler and urquhart - my understanding is that a real estate agent noticed them talking to the victim, and noticed something of interest. they then contacted the police, and picked out wheeler from a photo array. the cops then raided the house.

 

Kurve

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there has also been other advancements in DNA technology. ive read that if scientists have a sample, they can create a basic identikit of your appearance based on certain genetic info, such as eye colour, hair colour, etc. you would think things like this would be looked at by police regards old cases that have DNA technology.
It's phenotyping which is fantastic but Kingswood was saying in the csk thread we don't use that here yet.

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Krusty Crab

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It's phenotyping which is fantastic but Kingswood was saying in the csk thread we don't use that here yet.

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seems like something that should be looked at. once DNA started to become a thing, i would think there would be quite a few cases that have now gone cold that had DNA samples. catching those responsible for those crimes now means they can still face retribution for their deeds, if left too long then perpetrators might have passed away by the time justice catches up with them.
 

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