Get rid of the Coleman medal and rename it the Lockett or Coventry Medal

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G

geelong4eva

Team Captain
Apr 19, 2000
306
8
australia
What a joke ! I know Coleman banged a knee but to have the season's leading goalkicker awarded the Coleman medal is a disgrace and an embarrasment to the great game. You tell me that J.Coleman did as much for football as Lockett, Coventry, or even Ablett or Pratt, Hudson etc. Of course not, he was a flash in the pan ,a member of yesteryear, the 'fifth' beatle if you like. C'mon Wayne J as soon as this medal is renamed from it's unworthy benefactor you would get a lot more support from many fans around the league. But leave the Brownlow medal, as Charles Brownlow, well what a legend !
 
That was a bit harsh Matt.

G4E has a point when he says that players like Lockett and Ablett, two great players should have awards named after them. Problem is that they would have to make new awards.
 

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i agree matt

coleman was the greatest player of his time, crowds went just to see him play, they would change ends each quarter to be at the same end as him, averaged well over 5 goals a game (more than lockett), he kicked 100 goals a season numerous times in an era were fullbacks dominated, two fullbacks won brownlows, he played with one umpire, meaning that fullbacks or any opposition players got away with a lot more,
he took 5 or 6 marks every week that would be mark of the year today, there is no disputing that coleman was the greatest fullforward ever and possibly the greatest player ever
coleman was also considered to be one of the best coaches, a man far ahead of his time as far as tactics go, and incidently, the injury that ended his career would only keep a player out for four weeks
by the way who is charles brownlow??
 
G4E, you see... you just lost all your credibility by not including Dunstall in your list.
 
I think John Coleman was a legend. As walshy said, crowds would flock to the games just to see him, for his whole carrer, not just part of it. His average was definately higher than Lockett or Coventry. Look how many seasons Lockett played. If Coleman hadn't injured himself he probably would have beaten coventry's record too, and much quicker. The main reason it is named after him is because he was the competitions leading goalscorer more times than anyone else has ever been, including ablett, coventry and lockett and the award is for the leading goal scorer and so no one else it better suited.
 
I apologize for omitting Dunstall but my point still stands. It is horrendous and disgraceful that a grade-a thug like Coleman is immortalised for maybe 2 great seasons, when legends like Pratt or Lockett have done much more for football folklore. Come to think of it, perhaps Larry Donahue or John Longmire were better fowards than coleman - it is only because he played for bloody essendon.
 
If your going by averages then call it the Hudson medal, he has the greatest of all time.

PS Coleman from what ive heard was about as fair as they come in that era. Ive no real problem with the naming of the highest goal kicker of the season after him, though i do agree that *in the first post only* G4E has a point. Why wasnt it named after Coventry for instance? 17 seasons as the dominant FF in the game lends a weight to the claim that it should have been named after him.
 
How about having a Peter Sumich medal for any leftfooters to boot 100 goals in a season?
smile.gif
 
Grendel, possibly for the same reasons that saw Coleman named FF in the TOTC? Having not seem either of them play I can't comment. My dad saw him play though, and said as good as they've been Lockett & Dunstall were not as good as Coleman.
 

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geez this post is putrid, Bluey you have deleted other posts that are not as stupid as this one so why don't you delete this one? G4E I have seen you post some good posts and then you go and do something like this...That is disgraceful!!

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Go Chippa Your A Legend
 
Grendel,

I disagree with you on that point. Hudson had the highest goal average but only by a very small margin over Coleman. Both averaged about 5.5. But Coleman did it in the late 1940's and early 50's, in a lower scoring era. Hudson did it in the late 60's and early 70's.

Coventry was obviously a great player, but we really should be looking at goal average. Coventry played 306 games, which was the primary reason for his large quanity of goals.

Hell, if quantity is going to be the main pre-requisite, we may as well do something stupid like put Michael Tuck in the team of the century just because he played 426 games.

G4E,

We all know you are a dickhead. We really don't need me to explain it. Now, I'm not being biased to say that Colemans did more for the game than Coventry. Amd that is with all due respect to Coventry's 1299 goals.

Coventry was, by all reports, a bit like Dunstall. A champion, but more in terms of ruthless efficiency, than pure brilliance. Coventry averaged about 4 goals a game, while Coleman averaged 5.5.

Geelong last premiership coach Bob Davis, ranked Colemans the greatest player of all time. And Bob Davis saw both Coventry and Coleman play. Colemans has a legacy and a mystique that Coventry doesn't have. And I am hugely repsectful of what Coventry did. In this case, I am just comparing him to Joh Coleman, and Colemans wins out.

That's why Colemans was named as the full-forward in the team of the century, and that is why we name the leagues leading goal kicker after him. He was the greatest. Why else would we give these accolades to him ?

He didn't have only two good season as you said. He passed the century 4 times and nearly did it 5 times. And he only played 98 games. He aso did it IMMEDIATELY. He didn't work his way through the reserves. He kicked 12 in his first game and he kicked 100 in his first season.

He was the geatest full-forward of all time.
 
What a load of rubbish ! Coleman greatest ff of all time ? puh-leazze ? The team of the century was not a true indicator anyway, what with Wayne Carey not in the team ? Coleman was one of the dirtiest players that played the game, i have researched my football history, and my grandfather who saw him play reckons that he as violent on the field as David Rhys-Jones or Dermott Brereton yet the VFL umpires were to scared to report him. This is fact and he fully deserved to be rubbed out of the 1951 GF which gladly GEELONG DEFEATED ESSENDON - and even if he played the Catters would have won anyway as we had a great team back then. Look i shouldn't have called him a thug but he was a diry player from the information that i have gathered. and there is no need to call me a dickhead Dan24 but i won't resort to childish name calling as it simply reflects on yourself if you need to abuse folks

[This message has been edited by geelong4eva (edited 08 October 2000).]
 
G4E
Where did you do your research in Ripleys "Believe it or not", I repeat you are an idiot.
Oh & another thing, it was a disgrace that Coleman wasn't allowed to play in the GF, if he had of played the Cats would have got creamed, Heh Heh I just made a joke, Cats, cream, I'm just to brilliant for words.

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Mantis

[This message has been edited by sandie (edited 08 October 2000).]
 
G4E you are an absolute dickhead

it was named the Coleman medal so it should stay the Coleman medal as tradition. Given the oportunity I believe that Coleman probably would have gone on to be a much greater player than any forwards to have played the game.
 
I believe once the definitve text on the history of Australian Rules Football is written, it would note the 5 most important fowards in the history of the game in order were:

1: Gary Ablett (bias yes but he was God)
2: Gordon Coventry (brilliant, a legend)
3: Peter Hudson (had a sensational average, often underrated by historians
4: Tony Lockett (just a colossial and an credit to himself for breaking Nuts Coventry's record)
5: John Coleman (Brilliant start to career, but faded and eventually finished up at the age of 25. Not as good as many people say but still a legend amongst bomber fans)

this is my opinion only and i respect your intelligence Sandie and your opinion but your bias is showing through. Even i were an impartial non-geelong fan, i would still rate Gazza the best player/foward of all times.
 
G4E

Obviously, it is a matter of opinion whether he is the greatest of all time but for you to claim that he had only two good seasons shows your lack of knowledge (and therefore credibility)

For you to claim Coventry or Lockett (who both were champions) deserve it over Coleman just because they kicked more goals (due to more games played) is ignorant on your part.

Like I said, if games played is the only pre-requisite, give Micahel Tuck first dibs on the team of the century.

If Tiger Woods retired now, he would be regarded as the greatest (or maybe second greatest behinf Jack Nicklaus) golfer even though he is only 24.

So, do some research in future, please. Think beofre you write. How many times do I have to tell you.

As for Coleman being a dirty player, I can tell you he had a fiery temper. This was one of the assets that made him such a great player. Look at someone like Gary Ablett. Ablett was suspended a dozen or so times, yet you don't say a bad word about him do you.

Coleman was harassed and niggled, sometimes to an unbearable extent, by opposition full-backs. Colemans instinct, like a lot of others, was often to fight back. I would too. Don't take it. Don't show you can be pushed around. He used to dish it up. But he NEVER got suspended (except for taht ONE incident in 1951)

He wasn't a dirty player. He was just a typical tough player who didn't want to get pushed around and bullied. He never started anything. It was always the opposition full-backs trying to put him of his game.

Colemans was a champion. The greatest full-forward of all time. End of story
 
G4E,

I will say one thing though.

Gary Ablett is the greatest player I have ever SEEN. And I do agree that Hudson is very underrated by historians. He had the highest average which shows what a champ he was. Maybe, it's because Peter Hudson wasn't flashy like Ablett or Coleman.

But Colemasn short, brilliant career, is one of the things that makes him so intersting. And NO he didn't FADE (as you put it) towards the end of his career. The week before he did his kneee, he kicked 14 goals against Fitzroy.

Is that fading ? Ablett faded.
 
On the Coleman greatest full forward of all time 'end of story'. Not true, he didnt have the highest average, he didnt have the most goals in a season, he didnt (and most importantly) play long enough for him to be able to make that claim stand out.

Dont get me wrong, im not disputing his greatness as a player but i will argue that for the reasons outlined, there are other with cases just as strong to the claim as Coleman for the best FF of all time. Dunstall on efficency, Lockett on weight of numbers, Hudson (on injury at and a better average), Pratt on way higher big year end goal tallies, Coventry on longevity, Ablett on freakishness (though Hudson could fly to even though thats been forgotten, he choose to play as a ground player) all have claims just as strong as Coleman.

Dave i knew old blokes (REAL OLD BLOKES) who used to swear blind that Coleman wasnt as good as Pratt. Dan what was Colemans greatest tally in a single season? Pratts 150 in an era were even less goals were kicked than Colemans cancells your argument against the Hudson theory.

Its a very subjective thing, but to paint it either as a yes/no subject is imho impossible. All were magnificent of that, and only that, can there be no argument.

Cheers
beerchug.gif
 
Thanks Grendel

Everyone always fails to mention the greatest of all time, the supreme aerialist, the all-conquering Bob Pratt.

a giant of the game - in an era of giants too !

I know old people who have followed the game for many decades and these people have all had a chance to see Pratt, Coleman and Hudosn all play. The opinion is unanimous - Pratt was the fastest, highest marking, had the surest hands and the best accuracy of any of them, Coleman included, and I'm not just taliking about one-eyed Swans people here either !
 

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Get rid of the Coleman medal and rename it the Lockett or Coventry Medal

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