Getting Judd AND Kruezer To Carlton

[GhostofJimJess]

Far be it from me to be doing our traditional enemies the Blues a favour - let's just say that this suggestion comes with a pretty hefty win-win for both Carlton and Richmond. It's far from altruistically motivated, just purely good business between the two clubs.

One of my Tiger colleagues put the suggestion that the Blues and Tigers could organise some sort of "Veale Deal" if the need happened to arise i.e. if the Eagles decided to play a really hard ball on releasing Judd.

So, here's how it would unfold. Carlton trade Pick 3 to the Tigers for say, Andy Krakuoer, who looks set to be delisted by the Tigers anyway. The player doesn't matter - just a Lachlan Veale type would suffice. Richmond could even pay his salary for 2008 under our Salary Cap to ease the financial strain of carrying such a player in your Cap.

For such a gesture of trading out your Pick 3 to Richmond for a nothing player, the Tigers return the favour and "overlook" Chris Judd in the PSD, allowing Carlton to grab him with Pick 2 of the PSD without having to give up a single player or further National Draft pick to the Eagles.

So, Carlton effectively get Judd for Pick 3, thus preserving the ultra-precious No.1 pick in the National Draft for Kruezer, or whoever the hell you want.

Sure Richmond come out of it with Pick 2 & 3 and you guys get Judd and Pick 1 in the National Draft. However, with all due respect, over the next decade Richmond are probably going to be far more threatened in a Premiership respect by the Eagles than the Blues. Likewise, history tells us that the Blues should see West Coast as far more of a threat to their Flag aspirations than Richmond. Hence, I'd have no problem dealing with Carlton in such a manner. Not dissimilar to the way that Mark Williams conceded Nick Stevens to the Blues as he (wisely) saw them as less of a future threat than Collingwood.

Thoughts?

 

[tramman2000]

wouldnt rule it out, rather see pick 3 stay in Vic

 

[Dramoth]

Dont really think that this would work some how...

Whats to stop the Tiges from anal raping us after we do the deal and give you pick 3...

It's not like a deal to skip Judd in the PSD would be written in stone and signed with blood...

And whats to stop you guys from then going on and using picks 2 and 3 to get Judd

Leaves us with Krakour or a Veale type player and an arse a mile wide...

 

[Smell The Glove]

I just want both of them at Carlton so I can break out the Kruddler tag.

 

[Thrawn]

It's an interesting scenario, I'll give you that. But what is to stop Richmond from backstabbing us here and taking Judd from the PSD (assuming he ends up there)?

 

[Bluebear]

It's an interesting scenario, I'll give you that. But what is to stop Richmond from backstabbing us here and taking Judd from the PSD (assuming he ends up there)?

Whats to stop a third party trading for Judd once this "Veale deal" mkII gets off the ground.

WCE see that deal and say "They are going to try and screw us" they tralk to Judd, and say mate, your club of choice is dirty and no good........Judd says fine, do whatever deal you can .........he goes to Dees for pick 4...............we get screwed and Tiges are laughing.

Sorry mate, no deal.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Whats to stop a third party trading for Judd once this "Veale deal" mkII gets off the ground.

WCE see that deal and say "They are going to try and screw us" they tralk to Judd, and say mate, your club of choice is dirty and no good........Judd says fine, do whatever deal you can .........he goes to Dees for pick 4...............we get screwed and Tiges are laughing.

Sorry mate, no deal.

No, it would only happen with the players consent. Having said that, the AFL would consider it draft tampering and investigate it. They were concerned about the Veale deal but there was no precedent and it was only Jade Rawlings. For Judd, the AFL would throw the book at us and there is no possible explanation for giving up #3 for Krakouer.

If one club or the other ever wronged each other, you can bet that they will drag each other down over this deal down the track.

 

[Father Jack]

we'd simply trade with another club. I don't think Judd would want to head down that path anyway. Whoever gets Judd gets a champion player and bloke who hasn't shown the slightest inclination of off-field silliness, so they will have to give up something of value to get him.

 

[Blues_Man]

we'd simply trade with another club. I don't think Judd would want to head down that path anyway. Whoever gets Judd gets a champion player and bloke who hasn't shown the slightest inclination of off-field silliness, so they will have to give up something of value to get him.

Bingo !

 

[serenityNow]

It sounds good win,win for both clubs but Eagles would have AFL investigate it and Tiges and Blues would be heavily penalised.

 

[parrot]

Far be it from me to be doing our traditional enemies the Blues a favour - let's just say that this suggestion comes with a pretty hefty win-win for both Carlton and Richmond. It's far from altruistically motivated, just purely good business between the two clubs.

One of my Tiger colleagues put the suggestion that the Blues and Tigers could organise some sort of "Veale Deal" if the need happened to arise i.e. if the Eagles decided to play a really hard ball on releasing Judd.

So, here's how it would unfold. Carlton trade Pick 3 to the Tigers for say, Andy Krakuoer, who looks set to be delisted by the Tigers anyway. The player doesn't matter - just a Lachlan Veale type would suffice. Richmond could even pay his salary for 2008 under our Salary Cap to ease the financial strain of carrying such a player in your Cap.

For such a gesture of trading out your Pick 3 to Richmond for a nothing player, the Tigers return the favour and "overlook" Chris Judd in the PSD, allowing Carlton to grab him with Pick 2 of the PSD without having to give up a single player or further National Draft pick to the Eagles.

So, Carlton effectively get Judd for Pick 3, thus preserving the ultra-precious No.1 pick in the National Draft for Kruezer, or whoever the hell you want.

Sure Richmond come out of it with Pick 2 & 3 and you guys get Judd and Pick 1 in the National Draft. However, with all due respect, over the next decade Richmond are probably going to be far more threatened in a Premiership respect by the Eagles than the Blues. Likewise, history tells us that the Blues should see West Coast as far more of a threat to their Flag aspirations than Richmond. Hence, I'd have no problem dealing with Carlton in such a manner. Not dissimilar to the way that Mark Williams conceded Nick Stevens to the Blues as he (wisely) saw them as less of a future threat than Collingwood.

Thoughts?

We don't need you. We'll get Kruezer and Judd or Kruezer and Morton. Happy either way. You need to ask yourself why Judd thought the Tiges had absolutely no future. That is the real issue.

 

[parrot]

we'd simply trade with another club..

You either take it or get nothing. Your choice.

 

[audas]

Or, we just offer west coast pick three and bower, take it or leave it, we still have number one so no skin off our nose. You have to offer pick two and decent emergin player and no first round pick.....we both offer similar deal, but costs you the earth.

 

[Father Jack]

You either take it or get nothing. Your choice.

No, we either take it or see what Hawthorn or St Kilda or Melbourne or Collingwood or Essendon or maybe even the Kangas have to offer. There is absolutely no way Carlton can hold us over a barrel. Yes, we'd probably lose a bit on the trade, but you would miss your chance at Judd. No need for Carlton to get silly just yet.

 

[parrot]

No, we either take it or see what Hawthorn or St Kilda or Melbourne or Collingwood or Essendon or maybe even the Kangas have to offer...

Yeah but none of these Clubs can offer better in terms of higher draft pic. And Judd won't be going to StKilda or Roos. The only Clubs in contention are Carlton, Essendon, Melboune and Collingwood. So go on, tell me who exactly is going to offer you better than pick #3 plus player. You see that ia the problem. And the Blues have 100% rulled out offering more than #3. We'd prefer to just walk away. Good luck. You'll just have to take what you are given.

 

[Father Jack]

Yeah but none of these Clubs can offer better in terms of higher draft pic. And Judd won't be going to StKilda or Roos. The only Clubs in contention are Carlton, Essendon, Melboune and Collingwood. So go on, tell me who exactly is going to offer you better than pick #3 plus player. You see that ia the problem. And the Blues have 100% rulled out offering more than #3. We'd prefer to just walk away. Good luck. You'll just have to take what you are given.

That's what I meant. We won't necessarily get nothing if we don't strike a deal with Carlton. And you need to think long and hard before simply walking away from Judd simply because you have decided right now you won't do better than #3. It's Judd.

 

[Bluebear]

That's what I meant. We won't necessarily get nothing if we don't strike a deal with Carlton. And you need to think long and hard before simply walking away from Judd simply because you have decided right now you won't do better than #3. It's Judd.

Let me guess:
This one's a real beut
Some people were looking at it this morning
Just needs an overhaul and it'll go like the clappers again.........

Judd was the best player in the comp............12 months ago, and for the preceeding years.

If we don't get him we will be quite happy, just as we were 1 week ago.
If we get him and don't pay over the odds then that will be great as well.

Its is you (WCE) who needs to think very hard before getting too demanding.

He is out of contract.

You have no means of forcing ANY deal other than what we (potential suitors) want to bid.

You WILL take what is on offer or become the laughing stock of the entire comp and lose the best player for nothing.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

It's an interesting scenario, I'll give you that. But what is to stop Richmond from backstabbing us here and taking Judd from the PSD (assuming he ends up there)?

Nothing stopping the Tigers from doing so in a legal sense, Thrawn. From an ethical point of view, however, simply attaining Pick 3 in the National Draft is definitely not worth incurring the inevitable wrath of every club once they see how the Tigers rubber-gloved another team on such a handshake deal. Such an outrageous betrayal of the deal would end up far more detrimental to Richmond. Even their own supporters should also be appalled by such a dog act - I certainly would be. Heads would roll, and they'd know it.

For all of their faults, I'm certain that the Tiger heirarchy haven't forgotten how influential a club like Carlton can be in the world of football. They should be viewed as a respected enemy but also a very powerful ally.

Whats to stop a third party trading for Judd once this "Veale deal" mkII gets off the ground.

WCE see that deal and say "They are going to try and screw us" they tralk to Judd, and say mate, your club of choice is dirty and no good........Judd says fine, do whatever deal you can .........he goes to Dees for pick 4...............we get screwed and Tiges are laughing.

Sorry mate, no deal.

Okay, the only way this kind of thing can go through is for Judd to nominate Carlton as his club of preference, and be prepared to abide by his choice if West Coast refuse all of Carlton's reasonable advances. Which is why I prefaced my suggestion with "if the Eagles decided to play a really hard ball on releasing Judd".

He's got to want to walk. And no matter how many times the Eagles supporters try to convince us and themselves that "Juddy isn't that kinda guy", the fact is that every man has his price. Certainly every footballer does.

We don't need you. We'll get Kruezer and Judd or Kruezer and Morton. Happy either way. You need to ask yourself why Judd thought the Tiges had absolutely no future. That is the real issue.

Not the issue of this thread, buddy.

And I should know, I started it.

 

[Father Jack]

Let me guess:
This one's a real beut
Some people were looking at it this morning
Just needs an overhaul and it'll go like the clappers again.........

Judd was the best player in the comp............12 months ago, and for the preceeding years.

If we don't get him we will be quite happy, just as we were 1 week ago.
If we get him and don't pay over the odds then that will be great as well.

Its is you (WCE) who needs to think very hard before getting too demanding.

He is out of contract.

You have no means of forcing ANY deal other than what we (potential suitors) want to bid.

You WILL take what is on offer or become the laughing stock of the entire comp and lose the best player for nothing.

I agree. Just saying though that the opportunity to get this type of player doesn't come around that often. Think about your youngsters and what having a player like Judd around could do for them. Make them walk a foot taller for a start. We will be reasonable for the reasons you outlined.

But this is thread hijacking and I don't want to be haunted by any ghosts.

 

[parrot]

That's what I meant. We won't necessarily get nothing if we don't strike a deal with Carlton. And you need to think long and hard before simply walking away from Judd ..

Sorry, the decision by Carlton has already been made. Very happy with their stance. If you don't want pick #3, that's fine by us. Good luck.

 

[Bluebear]

I agree. Just saying though that the opportunity to get this type of player doesn't come around that often. Think about your youngsters and what having a player like Judd around could do for them. Make them walk a foot taller for a start. We will be reasonable for the reasons you outlined.

But this is thread hijacking and I don't want to be haunted by any ghosts.

True, he will boost the confidence of the side, and they will walk taller (and a bit faster due to the unloading of their hip pockets).......and Fev will dominate the comp because he will see success not far away with Judd around.

We would be a differrent side..........for a while. Then the aura of Judd wears off, the players realise that, while he is a very good player, part of what made him so good was being in an exceptional WCE team, and that being in a Carlton side that regularly butchers the ball, doesn't block for one another, has a crap defence and no gun ruck (yet ).........he isn't the player we thought he was and maybe some of the things he could do were as much a product of his teammates as it was his raw talent.

Just a possibility.

We won't pay over the odds, and would be quite happy to see another club wreck themselves to get him while we continue to build.

He is good, but how many flags did you win with him? 1.

Many more things must be considered for our long term success.