Religion Getting myself un-baptised.

[Chief]

Surely you dont believe the crap you post. Yeah, your child is going to come to you and ask to go to a Catholic school, so it is best off that you get un-baptised so you dont have the temptation of lying.

Yeah right chief.

It isn't a motivating reason and I've never claimed it as such.

It is a practical result of the choice.

Caeser (and others) claimed there are no practical results from going through this process. I gave one.

Simple.

 

[Sweaty]

Genes: How were they created?.. random chance eh? Feathers, petals of all shapes, fur, skin, eyes, gender etc etc .....all by accident Gene duplication followed by a frameshift mutation can account for most genes. For example, recently bacteria were found that can consume and digest nylon. Nylon was not around before 50 years ago so the scientists on the project looked for a gene duplication and found it when comparing the bacteria

Where are the feathered monkeys? To a monkey feathers would have no purpose, flight is very energy expensiveWhere did the two extra genes come from between the 'ancestoral monkey' and humans? Two extra genes? I assume you mean that most apes have 48 chromosomes while we have 46. We find teliomers in chromosome 2 where there shouldnt be and the other apes dont exhibit this feature. Thus chromosome 2 fused with another chromosome to make 23 pairs instead of 46



Read up on Alton Harp. An eminent astronomer with outstanding case against current "red shift" interpretation.

Hubbles Constant...so what ....we think the universe is expanding.

Derrrr... 15 Billion eh???...how do you work that out?... and do you understand any of your so called "21 century" dribble...or did your teacher tell you it is FACT!? No, i understand the science behind it is all. Do you honestly believe the earth is no older than 6000 years?

Plenty of other evidence points to an old earth. For example, folding of rock layers which can only happen over millions of years. Did god do this to test our faith? Craters on the moon? all those impacts occured recently? So many questions.

The most logical conclusion is that these processes have been happening over millions of years and that no 'god' is necessary.

Scientists dont take guesses, work is peer reviewed constantly and if new evidence does not support the hypothesis, we change it.

If Evolution was one big farce there would be thousands of scientists trying to find evidence to discredit it because they would easily get the nobel prize.

Alas, evolution best describes the diversity of life on the planet and as such it is used as the model.

 

[Corpuscles]

Crazy Corpy is crazy.

Give us the heads-up on Alton Harp.

Sorry typo or "lexdiczia" ....Halton Arp

http://www.electric-cosmos.org/arp.htm

Basically discovered so called "red shifted" stars in front of non red shifted galaxies.. impossible according to currently accepted theory. The technical stuff easily found on web now you have correct name !

 

[Corpuscles]

Plenty of other evidence points to an old earth. For example, folding of rock layers which can only happen over millions of years. Did god do this to test our faith? Craters on the moon? all those impacts occured recently? So many questions.

The most logical conclusion is that these processes have been happening over millions of years and that no 'god' is necessary.

Scientists dont take guesses, work is peer reviewed constantly and if new evidence does not support the hypothesis, we change it.

If Evolution was one big farce there would be thousands of scientists trying to find evidence to discredit it because they would easily get the nobel prize.

Alas, evolution best describes the diversity of life on the planet and as such it is used as the model.

I do not subscribe to "young earth" nor do I dispute evolution as having great part of development of species.

But if there is no need for "god" as you claim... then get into your lab and combine some amino acids and THEN bring them to life with ability to reproduce!

Peer review is often but not always corrupt 'you scratch my back mate and I'll scratch yours' ...often .....BS !

 

[Richo83]

I do not subscribe to "young earth" nor do I dispute evolution as having great part of development of species.

Small mercies.

But if there is no need for "god" as you claim... then get into your lab and combine some amino acids and THEN bring them to life with ability to reproduce!

It's funny, there's a tone of ridicule of chief's empiricist ways yet you're demanding someone manage to repeat something in an empirical format. There's an inconsistency.

Peer review is often but not always corrupt 'you scratch my back mate and I'll scratch yours' ...often .....BS !

Teh science konspiracies!!1!1!1

 

[skipper kelly]

It isn't a motivating reason and I've never claimed it as such.

It is a practical result of the choice.

Caeser (and others) claimed there are no practical results from going through this process. I gave one.

Simple.

So your practical result is that if your child ever wants to go to a Catholic school then you wont have to lie about being Catholic. As you said, it is simple.

 

[Corpuscles]

Small mercies.



It's funny, there's a tone of ridicule of chief's empiricist ways yet you're demanding someone manage to repeat something in an empirical format. There's an inconsistency.



Teh science konspiracies!!1!1!1

LOL! Richo


So pleased you make coment 2 me . Aren't you empirically smarter than that?!!!

Nuff'in ..IS WHAT you said!!!!

WE others are celebrating Chiefy"s denial of the 'thing' he doesn't believe .....EXITS!!!! (exisit's).. u know what I mean!!! exisits set

4 Evo's pleasure! ( Hi Mate)

You are good at philosophy.. well not as mad as some... but U know F' all about science!

He is right about the part....... (well, about something) .....

 

[Richo83]

Wait, what?

If chief knows nothing about science then neither do you. Your question about amino acids was a cheap trick disguised as an argument, I pulled you up on your inconsistencies. I don't know what you're complaining about. No offense corpy but this is the time where you become coggarules.

 

[theGimp]

No offense corpy but this is the time where you become coggarules.

No, you didnt go there

 

[Richo83]

A few emoticons, a smattering of words, not much sense.

 

[Chief]

So your practical result is that if your child ever wants to go to a Catholic school then you wont have to lie about being Catholic. As you said, it is simple.

You can't handle someone actively rejecting your core beliefs. It's perfectly normal for this to cause you some agitation. Instead of firing off pointless straw man arguments, have a lie down until this feeling subsides.

 

[sen entertainment bloke]

You can't handle someone actively rejecting your core beliefs. It's perfectly normal for this to cause you some agitation. Instead of firing off pointless straw man arguments, have a lie down until this feeling subsides.

Is your relationship with your parents unspeakable?

 

[Chief]

Is yours?

In case you missed it:

Skip, due to past disagreements, is determined to deride my opinion at any opportunity, specially if it involves two issues close to his heart: religion and the police.

In answer to the argument that there were no practical reasons for my choice, I gave one off the top of my head. Skip advanced (implicitly and explicitly) a straw man argument that this was the SOLE practical effect, if not the SOLE motivator for my choice, and concluded that it is a silly and pointless choice.

Again, he did this for the sole reason that his pride is injured over what he sees as an attack by me on his beliefs. IMO we all have an equal amount of pride, but some of us have more brittle emotional barriers protecting that pride from injury. Skip is broadcasting that loud and clear.

I don't know what the hell Corpuscles is on, though. Sounds habit forming, whatever it is.

 

[sen entertainment bloke]

Is yours?

No. Speakable.

Where I was coming from is post 89. It was not directed at you as per a quote of your posting but it was in the context of you being the thread originator.

Your arguments with believers in a supreme being was not an issue of mine.

I ain't catholic but my mother taught Sunday School at one stage. I believe in space being matter, etc, but no desire to legally or logistically separate myself from her teachings. I am me. She is her.

Your argument seems to be with your parents. If it's genuine.

 

[Tiggerduddy]

I was baptised at birth and attended church for the first 26 years of my life. It was then and there that the penny dropped for me and I realized that I was a sheep - just another 'member' to keep the roman catholic church alive. Frustrated, after attending my last mass, I approached the priest and told him of my displeasure for how the church is run and how I feel as though, unlike every other aspect of life - sexual preference, choice of lifestyle, choice of profession, freedom of speech - I was forced into the church with no say in it at all. Baptised with zero consent. Yes, I claim it to be a form of 'brain washing'. For every one person who is a born again, I'd say 10,000 are "born into the church".. I believe anyone who can analytically weigh up the legitimacy of the whole concept would have major doubts. But unfortunately, almost all followers are born into the church with no choice.
How can we live in a world where every other aspect of life is up to the person themselves, except for religion - where it is entirely based on what the church tells the parents to do...?
This astounds me. There is no freedom of choice. I stand by the statement. Let me repeat - 26 years.
Anyway, I spoke to the priest, and he "officially" denounced me from the catholic chruch then and there. I'm not sure if he did anything other than say those words and move his hands, for all I know he left a note for god about my actions.. But it was an experience I required. I needed to know that I wasn't part of something I just couldn't stand for any more, for my own sake.
I didn't have to do it. I don't feel any different. I just wanted to ensure the "church" knew I couldn't be counted on any more.

So I can understand exactly where Chief is coming from. And I encourage him to do what feels right for him.

 

[Pure Steele]

Interesting thread.

I'm looking forward to the Chief responding to this:

Just curious - do you consider trolling religious people on the religion board to be acceptable, or are you exercising owner privilege?

Only asking because I have a ton of awesome Muslim/terrorist jokes stored up.

 

[Chief]

I thought I already did answer him. I'm not trolling. A troll is the publication of an opinion you do not hold, merely to entice people (usually newbies) into a pointless argument.

Just because a thread will not be taken well by certain people doesn't automatically make it a troll.

 

[Chief]

Your argument seems to be with your parents. If it's genuine.

I still don't quite get it. This as an act against my parents? Well, it is if you twist it to fit that description. But that's not the motivator and I hadn't really thought about it that way at all.

It is a mixture of a lot of things. Curiosity to see the process is the one that got me starting the process. As more people pile on questions, probing for some darker, more deep-seated reason I've thought it probably has a few extra dimensions to it but nothing to write home about.

Many here seem to have a pet theory why I'm doing this. If I reject the theory, I'm hiding something or deceiving myself; if I accept there could be a shade or element of their theory in there somewhere most seem to think that is proof of their wise insight into the apparent sole motivator of the decision and of my lack of self-knowledge (or my deception of others; or my evil trolling ways).

The big reasons are curiosity about the process, a bit of ritual washing my hands of the whole Catholic thing and getting information about me physically removed from the records of an organisation that I believe is rotten at its core.

Nothing for anyone to get as worked up about as some of you armchair psychologists and raving religious loonies seem to be But keep at it, I need the distraction with exams coming up.

 

[d_henderson1810]

I've heard it's not possible to undo a baptism - something about God not giving your soul up without a fight.

But still I tracked down some email addresses and sent off my polite renunciation of the Catholic Church and a request for an exit interview.

We'll see how this goes.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you don't want to be a Catholic anymore, just don't go to church. What are they going to do, send the priest to come over your house, with a couple of "standover" men and drag you back?

Many babies have been baptised, but when they got older, didn't follow any type of religion.

 

[sen entertainment bloke]

I still don't quite get it.

Would you be so upset if I said my parents had me made a life member of the Ku Kux Klan and I wanted out?

I should become unsubscripted from the thread I guess. When you posted this early in the thread I surmised that this business boiled down to parents opting to baptize their kids. So I suggested your remedy was not to have yours done and beyond that it was your parents that are the ones accountable for you being a catholic. More so than the catholic church.

This as an act against my parents? Well, it is if you twist it to fit that description. But that's not the motivator and I hadn't really thought about it that way at all.

Have you had discussions with your parents about what you are trying to do? Making an issue of it that way in your circle of life would probably do more to get parents to consider whether or not they should have their children baptized than anything else.

 

[skipper kelly]

You can't handle someone actively rejecting your core beliefs. It's perfectly normal for this to cause you some agitation. Instead of firing off pointless straw man arguments, have a lie down until this feeling subsides.

No Chief. I'm laughing at you for making up such a rubbish excuse. Geez, I thought you were smart. Surely you could come up 100 practical reasons before "I do want to be forced to lie."

 

[skipper kelly]

Your argument seems to be with your parents. If it's genuine.

Bingo.

 

[skipper kelly]

Is yours?

In case you missed it:

Of course Chief.

Over the years your posting about religion has grown from a mere discussion point to being a troll and now a full blown obsession. Do I need to elaborate? It's all there. The only question I have is why would you do this on your own successful forum.

 

[Pure Steele]

I thought I already did answer him. I'm not trolling. A troll is the publication of an opinion you do not hold, merely to entice people (usually newbies) into a pointless argument.

Just because a thread will not be taken well by certain people doesn't automatically make it a troll.

C'mon Chief, both you and I know that answer is bullshit. According to Urban dictionary; 1. troll



One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll




And yeah, nah, you didn't answer the question directly at all. You've just skirted around it, politician style.

Good work.

 

[Caesar]

I thought I already did answer him. I'm not trolling. A troll is the publication of an opinion you do not hold, merely to entice people (usually newbies) into a pointless argument.

Just because a thread will not be taken well by certain people doesn't automatically make it a troll.

I don't think the thread is a troll. I thought the gratuitous paedophilia joke was.