Rumour GFC 2020 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists

[Pure_Ownage]

thought so.. we are no chance there

Go Catters

I would say so but stranger things have happened.

 

[Turbocat]

I think Clark is the only one we'd get a first for and we'd be losing that trade

..and Id not be pushing him out ..especially atm ..west coast do not have many picks.

... but saying we would not get a R1 for any our players .. doesn't sort of confirms the state of our list. We are trying to win flag with players with players not worth trading for?

Let say our next best potential kid on our list is Parfitt , perhaps Narkle or Sav. If they are not even worth a R1 ... it sort of confirms that we a house of cards built on a great group of players that are now getting towards the end

The Kelly situation which was forced on us is perhaps what we should try to at least be aware of when a FA is out of contract that may earn us a high end pick. You are right that our options are narrow now. ..and I have said in numerous post.. I don't think the club will change direction by choice.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Know any names of any kid rucks may fit that mould?

Zero, but the draft will be thin at that point anyway. You wouldn't be wasting a pick at that point

 

[CatToTheFuture]

..and Id not be pushing him out ..especially atm ..west coast do not have many picks.

... but saying we would not get a R1 for any our players .. doesn't sort of confirms the state of our list. We are trying to win flag with players with players not worth trading for?

Let say our next best potential kid on our list is Parfitt , perhaps Narkle or Sav. If they are not even worth a R1 ... it sort of confirms that we a house of cards built on a great group of players that are now getting towards the end

The Kelly situation which was forced on us is perhaps what we should try to at least be aware of when a FA is out of contract that may earn us a high end pick. You are right that our options are narrow now. ..and I have said in numerous post.. I don't think the club will change direction by choice.

What's the alternative to trying to win? Trying to lose? All you get from tanking is a culture that accepts failure and wasted careers

 

[Drunkcat]

All of Australia know we need a ruckman you would think one Ruckman would want to play for us but no takers

 

[Pure_Ownage]

..and Id not be pushing him out ..especially atm ..west coast do not have many picks.

... but saying we would not get a R1 for any our players .. doesn't sort of confirms the state of our list. We are trying to win flag with players with players not worth trading for?

Let say our next best potential kid on our list is Parfitt , perhaps Narkle or Sav. If they are not even worth a R1 ... it sort of confirms that we a house of cards built on a great group of players that are now getting towards the end

The Kelly situation which was forced on us is perhaps what we should try to at least be aware of when a FA is out of contract that may earn us a high end pick. You are right that our options are narrow now. ..and I have said in numerous post.. I don't think the club will change direction by choice.

Those guys are definitely not worth a R1 and we wouldn't trade them anyway. Most of our key guts are either too old to us to want to trade them or them want to move or too young and promising for us to let go of (clark)..of the guys in the middle age bracket only Duncan would have net us a R1 and how does that trade give us a net benefit? I think we are managing the list the correct way given the limitations we have.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

All of Australia know we need a ruckman you would think one Ruckman would want to play for us but no takers

We will get someone. Whether we get someone good is another matter.

 

[Turbocat]

Those guys are definitely not worth a R1 and we wouldn't trade them anyway. Most of our key guts are either too old to us to want to trade them or them want to move or too young and promising for us to let go of (clark)..of the guys in the middle age bracket only Duncan would have net us a R1 and how does that trade give us a net benefit? I think we are managing the list the correct way given the limitations we have.

If we continually fall short and in fact slip back then a change is needed. I look at some other clubs and feel they will be hard to beat in a couple of years.

To me its not primarily about doing the best we can with what we have , thats Vdubs argument for why Scott has been good coach for us. In round terms that like living in scummy suburb in a scummy house driving a scummy car cause you are living within you means... all admirable if one can't improve. IS that it..we all think that there is no way to be better? Perhaps there isn't but old age can not be beaten its coming.

And if the younger guys on our list are not worth an R1 , (in rough terms thats a general appraisal of their quality). then I suspect like it or not the slippery slope will get slipperier soon.

For me , it who will be the core of the side soon.. and if the core of the side is not R1 worthy , I suspect we are in for a bumpy ride. Of course maybe the club picks all become Enrights and Ling's etc..late picks that became AA level players

Have we drafted enough? Since 2016 id say. Yes. Have we played them enough? Perhaps. Are they good enough long term? Not sure.

I'd agree that in this era of FA, the best a player will get in trade is 21-25ish then it starts sliding ... so basically we are locked into this method until nature forces us down. When we have minimal input from the guys who are 29plus now ..then we will see if all is well I guess.

And Im not saying we should have burnt the list down .. as more clubs have done that than have succeeded by it, its moire than just a desire to add talent, its hard to win without it.

 

[dazbroncos]

We will get someone. Whether we get someone good is another matter.

Part of the FA ruck issue is a vicious circle. With Otto part time at best, there really has not been a lot of an external view that the position is valued - whether it is internally who really knows. To attract the quality FA ruck the position needs to valued - for the club to value it they seems to need a good prospect in the position.

So far, the cycle has not really been one to invest heavily in the position - Apologies to Stanely and co...

Something has to give at some point - but given the overall reception Stanley and the other rucks have had over the journey I sriously doubt many on here would give a beanstalk 18 year old the 4-5 years in the system needed to develop and become something to be honest. The patience just is not there for any of the other positions so why would this be any different.

Im all for getting 2 Mummy types and letting them slow cook for 3-5 years for what its worth.

Benny Cass made a good point on the CAP about rucks - they need to be genuine rucks not tall blokes that can play rucks. Its a mindset and a tough position to play and they have to have the agro "i wanna hurt you" type streak in them. Im not talking about the Mummy type im gonna bury you MOFO.... but the mindet that im a ruck and its gonna hurt doing it. I think about John Mosop and DArren Flannigan, even Johnny Barnes and of course Otto... TO be fair, even Blakey was like that. Be a ruckman forst.. not a forward or defnder made into a ruckman.

And before Blitz and company get sullied here - Im not having a crack at any GFC player that has rucked for us - but im just identifying IMO the trait and time they need to have.

GO Catters

 

[Turbocat]

Part of the FA ruck issue is a vicious circle. With Otto part time at best, there really has not been a lot of an external view that the position is valued - whether it is internally who really knows. To attract the quality FA ruck the position needs to valued - for the club to value it they seems to need a good prospect in the position.

So far, the cycle has not really been one to invest heavily in the position - Apologies to Stanely and co...

Something has to give at some point - but given the overall reception Stanley and the other rucks have had over the journey I sriously doubt many on here would give a beanstalk 18 year old the 4-5 years in the system needed to develop and become something to be honest. The patience just is not there for any of the other positions so why would this be any different.

Im all for getting 2 Mummy types and letting them slow cook for 3-5 years for what its worth.

Benny Cass made a good point on the CAP about rucks - they need to be genuine rucks not tall blokes that can play rucks. Its a mindset and a tough position to play and they have to have the agro "i wanna hurt you" type streak in them. Im not talking about the Mummy type im gonna bury you MOFO.... but the mindet that im a ruck and its gonna hurt doing it. I think about John Mosop and DArren Flannigan, even Johnny Barnes and of course Otto... TO be fair, even Blakey was like that. Be a ruckman forst.. not a forward or defnder made into a ruckman.

And before Blitz and company get sullied here - Im not having a crack at any GFC player that has rucked for us - but im just identifying IMO the trait and time they need to have.

GO Catters

Fair points, Id love to have an English who seem to posses Stanley type traits mixed with always being a ruck at a lower level. Not sure he is a killer but he is happy in the role.

I think the best chance of us getting someone half decent this year is probably from someone else list.. but who and how much and what age and type of ruck will all be a matter of opinion. Id agree that when a club has a SCap and money only go's so far they have to make choices... and the choice we have made is not having to groom a long development ruck sitting on the list , and to funnel our high money into the players who see most of the ball..mids.

So the guys id enquire about are the ones looking for a chance who may have shown a glimpse but they would still be relatively cheap and someone else has put the years into them. So whether that Dek at Carlton or Williams at WC or or Shaw/Ladhams at Port ... even Cameron who is at Collingwood and just moved there.. should be by now awarenesses he has no chance of being #1 while Grundy is there. ... not sure.

Id agree finding someone tall is not the problem.. finding someone capable and reliable is

 

[Turbocat]

The Crows could have a real bonanza if Crouch goes. for big dollars ... and of course that along with JamUH pushes us back

The Crows could have 3 picks in the top 5...

How a little known clause could give Crows two top-five picks

They appear destined for their first wooden spoon. But this is how Adelaide could take two picks inside the top five

www.afl.com.au

 

[foxdog50]

Zero, but the draft will be thin at that point anyway. You wouldn't be wasting a pick at that point

Just been doing a bit of Web search and Henry Walsh, there was a mock team named for Vic Country and they named his as the ruck..

Geelong invited him to come down to training, Carlton also did to, but he choose Carlton, obviously his brother there...

 

[CatToTheFuture]

The Crows could have a real bonanza if Crouch goes. for big dollars ... and of course that along with JamUH pushes us back

The Crows could have 3 picks in the top 5...

How a little known clause could give Crows two top-five picks

They appear destined for their first wooden spoon. But this is how Adelaide could take two picks inside the top five

www.afl.com.au

View attachment 916543

Surely crouch doesn't net them rd1 compo. Who is offering him a big long term contract? Especially in this environment I can't see it

 

[MacStradbroke]

We're basing the last Collingwood game when we were missing Duncan, Narkle, Stewart, Selwood in the first and even Clark ended up going down later on.

That's a fair chunk on injuries we had and our biggest hole is certainly at the ruck position. Do you think we wouldn't have fair better against Collingwood last season with a decent ruckman and not Blicavs in the ruck against Grundy (plus again, Ablett and Clark injured and Duncan going down. As is part of the sport)?

I don't think we're in a doom and gloom position as a playing list right now like people seem to think. A good run with injuries and a good ruck would definitely see us competing at the pointy end of the season imo.

And 10 points down deep in the last is hardly bullied, same as last years final. Why can't we win it this year?

 

[MacStradbroke]

hawkins was the no1 pick that year. Despite what people say about Gibbs gumbleton as I watched all the carnival games that year and he was the standout no 1.

We do need to focus on the draft and to bring in talent. But focusing on the draft alone can also lead to a lot of failure and a gamble as well.

you mention port Adelaide. Port Adelaide have barely done a thing since 2007.. 13 years of failures outside of one year making top four. Port Adelaide have gone to the draft over and over and over for more than a decade and only moderately now are seeing results.

We need to focus on all aspects draft, trading, FA and not to knock any of them back as good opportunities come knocking.

I saw Hawk tear Gumbleton apart that game too. Clear number 1 I agree.

 

[MacStradbroke]

A lot of R1 rucks dont work out? Id say most ruck are not picked in r1 .. Its changed over the years from when Cruzer was P1. Id say for every early pick like NicNat or slightly later English or Grundy... there would be players like Gawn that come from much further back in the draft. Having a Rookie B ruck is a good approach to my way of thinking ..as long as we dont bet the farm on it all it working. We still need to realise all draft picks can fail but Rookie B's would be a very long shot of working... for example how does this kid compare to Bradke at Melb? Blitz has been a find.. but how many of our Rookie B's have worked?

I think you have not quite grasped my pov one what I want at draft but thats OK we are all allowed an opinion.

Im not against mature players but what I feel is we can not build a list on them , and successful sides have their best player group built around draft. Other sports are different. The player number is afl is so much more than something like basketball. In the AFL, has any club won a flag without a single figure pick that they drafted? No sure but I can't think of too many. We didnt . We drafted them and traded them in.

Selwood Hawkins whether he is #1 or not were very high talents, and we had others , and we had FS's that became that good. That type of talent is usually added thru draft not trade. Its cost too much or its just not available enough as FA. Danger is an outlier and can't be relied on to be repeated.

Its not like we have not drafted. Since 2016 we have gone hard at the draft, 30 odd picks... but im not convinced we have a future B&F winner in that group , the obvious one is in WA now, so I feel we have to not only go hard at draft but we need to add more of the best talent we can get at, unfortunately the tail end of R1 is a lot more flakey than the start of R1. Unless something unusually happens ..we again will not get into the draft till 13 or 14 this year .. makes it very difficult to get what we need without pain and going backwards for a while.

Danger is an outlier yes, but they do happen more regularly than most think. Neale is the best player at Brisbane comfortably. Judd, Franklin and to a lesser degree Treloar, Shiel and Lynch are all guns. They're gettable. Ask West Coast the bastards!

 

[Hamingja]

I saw Hawk tear Gumbleton apart that game too. Clear number 1 I agree.

Gibbs was tearing up the SANFL as an under 18. Carlton had Fevola and Waite at the time. I reckon Gibbs still would have went #1 if Hawkins was available.

 

[Drunkcat]

The Crows could have a real bonanza if Crouch goes. for big dollars ... and of course that along with JamUH pushes us back

The Crows could have 3 picks in the top 5...

How a little known clause could give Crows two top-five picks

They appear destined for their first wooden spoon. But this is how Adelaide could take two picks inside the top five

www.afl.com.au

View attachment 916543

This is why when Hawthorn have a bad year they finish up with pick 4 smart

 

[cats_09]

The contract freeze has ended - how long until we start to see some signing announcements; not necessarily Geelong specific but from any team

 

[CatToTheFuture]

The contract freeze has ended - how long until we start to see some signing announcements; not necessarily Geelong specific but from any team

Ah wow, wasn't expecting it to be over. They'd have to know list numbers then. Any info?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Its very easy to get sidetrack.... this discussion started when it was discussed about trading a truck load of players out , other said we would not get much for them etc. .

My point was simply that playing what Jack Dyer used to call good ordinary players can hold us off the floor , make us a better side etc but maybe its like treading water to a degree.... if we need better talent and the only way to get it is to trade out, lose FA or drop for a while ..then unless we are at the right list profile age adding these middle men can be the wrong way to go. I name Simon Arnott back near 20 years ago as to the way Thompson made a choice on that type of GOP and started to play the drafted kids that were our future. The difference is that we have not really dropped away to get the type of talent Thompson had at his dispossal.

What I see is that our big quality best players are coming to their end..but they are still our best players. Take our 29 plus players out of our side ... and who is AA standard ? Im not against being smart and adding player thru trade...as I have said before the trade in of the right ruck would save us 3-4 years of development. Once we start to slide , we will not be the destination club we have become accustom to, behind the scenes id be talking to a young high talent mid that we could add but they are hard to persuade to move and hard to persuade to come to use. Name the best ten young mids, very hard to see how we get them.I have repeatedly mentioned Ben King If I could trade in Ben King with our picks Id look at that but I think thats cooked for a while now. That leaves us with the less ideal Peter Wright.

So... for every player we trade in ..we probably need 3-4 that we have drafted.

As much as Clarkson gets plaudits for the top ups, he won flags off the back of Hodge and Buddy and Smith and Lewis and Roughead etc. Drafted. If the change FA to 6 years or less then FA would really change it.

The players we have recruited over the past several years have been quite strategic and have contributed well to our side that has regularly competed for a premiership and finished top four and prelims so they were good calls. Every club in the AFL in our ladder position would do the same as we did so i dont have issues with it.

Will we do that now moving forward?? I dont prescribe to the theory We have to finish low to rebuild, im not sure your exact idea on that but it seems you think a dip is required but to what extent im unsure. Our greatest team of all time was built off ladder finishes no worse than 12th and pick 7. We didnt have an abundance of top picks. most of our side was built off average picks or picks in the 20-40 range. Ablett scarlett were also second third rounders their draft year. Ablett as dal santo described was a low possession high impact half forward/midfielder his draft year.

2 of hawthorns flags were also won without franklin when you look at it, the draft picks that built that team for back to back flags was pick 1(hodge) 2(roughhead) 8(lewis) 36( mitchel) 12(rioli). Not exactly a massive dip and rebuild when you take franklin out of the two flags.. A huge chunk was quality drafting throughout the picks and amazing trading. Are you saying gunston gibson were not huge key pillars in hawthorns flags?? I know hawthorn fans would tell you their flags were as much trades as they were drafting throughout.

You compare that to carlton bulldogs melbourne who have gone an entire traditional bottoming out route and focused purely on the draft with midfields choked full of top 5 picks, and these clubs are basket cases. I think melbourne is a good modern example of a club that has tried to bottom out and rebuild traditionally without hitting hard thr free agency and trade market to complete their sides structure or have failed at it.

 

[Turbocat]

Danger is an outlier yes, but they do happen more regularly than most think. Neale is the best player at Brisbane comfortably. Judd, Franklin and to a lesser degree Treloar, Shiel and Lynch are all guns. They're gettable. Ask West Coast the bastards!

Before Danger , who was our biggest recruit . Ottens...go back before that and we struggle to attract players. I can still remember Rawlings saying it was too far to travel in the car. Think about North how many times they missed out. If Cameron puts himself on the market and every other club is into him. what are our chance evens? Lynch talked to the pies but they missed out. Yes they are around but to have a player of Dangers quality wanting only us.... rare.

 

[Turbocat]

Surely crouch doesn't net them rd1 compo. Who is offering him a big long term contract? Especially in this environment I can't see it

One would hope.

 

[ShaunWDT]

What about Dek? I thought he can play in the ruck?

Plays his best down back

 

[cats_09]

Ah wow, wasn't expecting it to be over. They'd have to know list numbers then. Any info?

No idea on any further info in regards to list numbers going forward. There was something of a standoff between the AFLPA & AFL in regards to the compressed fixture the AFL is/has released tonight & the players wanted the contract freezer lifted before they agreed to the compressed fixture; basically around job security should one get injured during the pending period of play

Coaches can also be re-signed now