Rumour GFC 2021 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists... Part II

[year of the cat]

If we get Jhye Clark next year (which given our drafting bias towards Falcons this year/not trading our Future 1st, I'd be incredibly surprised if we didn't) - then our 2024/25 midfield starts looking a lot more impressive.

Something like:

C: Holmes, C. Stephens, Knevitt
FO: Conway, Jhye Clark, Parfitt

INT: Knevitt, Whyte, Willis, O'Connor (if we want to continue his midfield development)

This is before any trade ins/FA/2023 and 2024 draft. It's not a bad start IMO (especially if Bruhn gets kept out at GWS and we bring him home end of next year)

Have Knevitt twice but see what you mean. Remains to be seen if the recent crop reach the level but at least now we are investing in youth. Will require some patience.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Disagree. All those players they traded were fringe. They are rebuilding on the run.

Jack Higgins is not fringe if he can sort out his set shot conversion he will be an absolute gun.

 

[Shadow89]

So, after the drafts are done and dusted we can now look at the list and also look into the future at the likely list changes coming at the end of 2022.

I’d say the following are either certain or likely to finish up -

Higgins, Dahlhaus, Selwood, Smith, Narkle, Z.Guthrie and possibly Tuohy.

That’s 4 mids, 2 back flankers and one small forward.

We are clearly also deficient in tall defenders already and probably a quality young KPF albeit Neale shows some signs.

What we do need though is elite quality. We are going to lose a fair bit of it over the next couple of years.

Reckon we just pay what it takes to get Jhye Clark. Even if that is 2 first round picks. Then look for further mid sized players as well as a KPD. A couple of decent FA’s may also be useful as I doubt we can cover all our list changes through the draft alone.

Was thinking about this the other day, and I reckon we end up doing the following:

Retire: Higgins, Dahl, Rohan, Sel
Delist: Narkle
Trade (due to request to return home to WA): Neale
Upgrade: Atkins and Close
Re-rookie: Z. Guthrie and Evans
1 year contract: I. Smith

Gives us 4 senior spots (5 if I. Smith doesn't go on - but he still looks at the height of his powers and could play another year or two yet). We have far more picks than that, so it stands to reason that we'll look to trade up/trade futures in - as next year is the year to get in a KPF and gun mid - Lemmey and Clark would be great, but probably more likely someone like Keeler.

We currently have (based on this year's draft):

Pick 15 (Geelong 1st)
Pick 33 (Geelong 2nd)
Pick 43 (Carlton Future 3rd)
Pick 50 (Brisbane Future 3rd)
Pick 51 (Geelong 3rd)
Pick 59 (Hawthorn Future 4th)
Geelong 2023 1st
Geelong 2023 2nd
Geelong 2023 3rd
Geelong 2023 4th

I'd say we end up trading our 2nd, all our 3rds and the Hawks 4th to Brisbane for Ashcroft - for their 1st (15-18). This ends up being around 1500 points - which will be far more than what their pick is worth, and will go a long way to covering him if he foes Top 5 as expected.

Next, we'll trade our Future 1st and 2nd to someone like Essendon for their 1st, who has bids for the Davey twins (could be anyone but just them as an example if they don't want to worry about that draft).

That gives us something like:

Pick 11 (Essendon 1st)
Pick 14 (Brisbane 1st)
Pick 15 (Geelong 1st)

Use a combination of those three 1sts to secure Clark and a KPF - then grab a couple of kids at the end of the draft, plus a couple of rooks.

That's how I read it anyway, as we have nowhere near enough spots as we got rid of most of our fringe players this year - and we now need to start targeting some real quality rather than depth

 

[year of the cat]

Was thinking about this the other day, and I reckon we end up doing the following:

Retire: Higgins, Dahl, Rohan, Sel
Delist: Narkle
Trade (due to request to return home to WA): Neale
Upgrade: Atkins and Close
Re-rookie: Z. Guthrie and Evans
1 year contract: I. Smith

Gives us 4 senior spots (5 if I. Smith doesn't go on - but he still looks at the height of his powers and could play another year or two yet). We have far more picks than that, so it stands to reason that we'll look to trade up/trade futures in - as next year is the year to get in a KPF and gun mid - Lemmey and Clark would be great, but probably more likely someone like Keeler.

We currently have (based on this year's draft):

Pick 15 (Geelong 1st)
Pick 33 (Geelong 2nd)
Pick 43 (Carlton Future 3rd)
Pick 50 (Brisbane Future 3rd)
Pick 51 (Geelong 3rd)
Pick 59 (Hawthorn Future 4th)
Geelong 2023 1st
Geelong 2023 2nd
Geelong 2023 3rd
Geelong 2023 4th

I'd say we end up trading our 2nd, all our 3rds and the Hawks 4th to Brisbane for Ashcroft - for their 1st (15-18). This ends up being around 1500 points - which will be far more than what their pick is worth, and will go a long way to covering him if he foes Top 5 as expected.

Next, we'll trade our Future 1st and 2nd to someone like Essendon for their 1st, who has bids for the Davey twins (could be anyone but just them as an example if they don't want to worry about that draft).

That gives us something like:

Pick 11 (Essendon 1st)
Pick 14 (Brisbane 1st)
Pick 15 (Geelong 1st)

Use a combination of those three 1sts to secure Clark and a KPF - then grab a couple of kids at the end of the draft, plus a couple of rooks.

That's how I read it anyway, as we have nowhere near enough spots as we got rid of most of our fringe players this year - and we now need to start targeting some real quality rather than depth

Our pick 15 might be more like a pick 10. Whether even then we have the capital to entice a lower finishing club to give up a top 4 pick (what is likely to be needed to get Clark) is still doubtful. We saw this year that GWS weren’t budging in giving up their pick for Callaghan despite some pretty attractive offers.

 

[petrolium]

It’s amazing how much one draft can boost our morale and optimism for the future. It’s great to know the club see where improvement and reinforcements are needed. Looking at our draftees, I think there’s a lot of promise. If it turns out anything similar to our 2016 haul, we’d be laughing. We won’t know for 3-5 years at least. I honestly still believe we’re good enough to finish top 4. I agree and think we’ll try to trade our R3&4 picks to Brisbane for their R1 next year. Leaves us with 2 likely early teens picks (and our future R1). There’s still lots of time between now and next draft. What draft range would we expect Jhye Clark to be if he continues improving at an expected rate?

 

[MacStradbroke]

It’s amazing how much one draft can boost our morale and optimism for the future. It’s great to know the club see where improvement and reinforcements are needed. Looking at our draftees, I think there’s a lot of promise. If it turns out anything similar to our 2016 haul, we’d be laughing. We won’t know for 3-5 years at least. I honestly still believe we’re good enough to finish top 4. I agree and think we’ll try to trade our R3&4 picks to Brisbane for their R1 next year. Leaves us with 2 likely early teens picks (and our future R1). There’s still lots of time between now and next draft. What draft range would we expect Jhye Clark to be if he continues improving at an expected rate?

I’ve seen a couple of very early calls of him going top 10-15 but that’s fairyland stuff at the moment.

 

[year of the cat]

It’s amazing how much one draft can boost our morale and optimism for the future. It’s great to know the club see where improvement and reinforcements are needed. Looking at our draftees, I think there’s a lot of promise. If it turns out anything similar to our 2016 haul, we’d be laughing. We won’t know for 3-5 years at least. I honestly still believe we’re good enough to finish top 4. I agree and think we’ll try to trade our R3&4 picks to Brisbane for their R1 next year. Leaves us with 2 likely early teens picks (and our future R1). There’s still lots of time between now and next draft. What draft range would we expect Jhye Clark to be if he continues improving at an expected rate?

Atm, if the draft was tomorrow he’d be a top 5 pick. Possibly top 3.

 

[Shooooltzey]

I understand your point, and I'm one of the key offenders of the aforementioned, but personally, I base this a lot more on what I saw in the VFL last year - as opposed to the AFL.

I don't usually watch a ton of VFL, but due to covid, I found myself watching every week - due to there being not much else to do, haha. From the first game, I couldn't believe just how dominant this skinny young kid who I knew nothing about, was. He was Walsh like in the territory he covered, and he was much quicker whilst doing it too.

One moment he'd be starting in the midfield and creating space where there was none, then spearing a pass through heavy traffic. Nek minnit he'd be in defence laying a tackle and getting a HTB. Five seconds later he would have pushed forward to crumb a ball in the forward 50 and create a goal.

In every game I watched, he was just head and shoulders above everyone else. For his first 3 games, he was BOG in every one of them - ahead of bigger bodied seasoned VFL performers like Constable, Narkle and Brownless. Clearly the MC thought so too, as he got a debut game in our Easter Monday clash, just 4 games in. This was a kid that was all of 74kg at 189cm - and he was already showing this much 4 games into his VFL career.

He's got speed, agility, height, good leg size, and he's a far better user of the ball than someone like Danger. That goal where he bounced up off the ground and accelerated at pace near the end of a home and away game late in the year, reminded me so much of Danger.

Now admittedly there's a very small sample size, and anything could happen from here. However, the sky is the limit with this kid, as he's skinny as right now, and he's already showing so much. He's played inside mid in the VFL rather than just being confined to the wings, so he's not just an outside player. He lays a decent tackle, so he's got grunt despite his size. And he's also the son of an Olympic track medalist, so he understands hard work and being part of the elite sporting industry (was a competitive runner himself).

When I think of what this kid could be, when he adds 10kgs to his frame over the next few years - it really is exciting and does make me get pretty hyped, as he has all the weapons to absolutely be a top tier player at AFL level.

Imagine someone with height and speed like Danger, the defensive mindset of Corey, and endurance and disposal like Walsh, - that's what I think is his possible level he could get to, if he absolutely works his butt off over the coming years (Murdoch had height and speed - but not much else).

We'll obviously see how he turns out (and I could get this completely wrong), but I haven't been this excited about a player walking through our doors since a young Joel Selwood pulled on the hoops in Round 1, 2007.

Come at me, haha

I'm certainly not going to come at you as I 100% agree agree. His VFL form was simply just above the level.

I think a lot of people would be surprised to hear he had a 47% contested possession rate. That is a lot higher than a lot of full time inside mids. What does this mean? He is an absolute gun at getting the lose ground balls which highlights his intelligence and work rate. And he is so clean at ground level you barely even notice him. I think I only saw him fumble at ground level once this year. A real 1 touch player.

It also highlights his rate of improvement. 12 months ago he had zero inside game. So to be able to find his own ball like he did this year is significant improvement in such a short time period. Like the coaches felt comfortable enough to let him stand next to Petracca at stopages in a prelim final.

Another thing I'd like to add is that I haven't seen many first year players who understand space as well as he does. When going for the ground balls he really tries to protect the space and really makes good handball decisions to the man where the space is.

This is where I see tremendous upside with his pace and foot skills. Once he gains a bit of confidence and puts on some muscle he is just going to burst through these small pockets of space into the wide open space where he can use his foot skills and gain a lot of meterage.

Not to mention he was playing on about 60% game time this year which will means all his stats will naturally go up 20-30% over the coming years.

Combining Walsh, Duncan and Danger is a bit extreme but my best attempt at comparing him to one player would be Josh Kelly. Obviously isn't a Josh Kelly clone but like him Holmes can do some really clever things at the stoppage but really excels at spreading from that first initial contest. This means he can also start on the wing or at half forward and still be able to find his 25 impactful touches in a game game.

I was really disappointed hearing so many fans give him flack when he won the best young player. People saying stuff like "if he is our best young player our future is doomed." I understand why though. It's because your average joe just notices him stuffing up in front of goal so that is all they can base their opinion on.

Really excited to follow his development.

 

[Turbocat]

If we get Jhye Clark next year (which given our drafting bias towards Falcons this year/not trading our Future 1st, I'd be incredibly surprised if we didn't) - then our 2024/25 midfield starts looking a lot more impressive.

Something like:

C: Holmes, C. Stephens, Knevitt
FO: Conway, Jhye Clark, Parfitt

INT: Knevitt, Whyte, Willis, O'Connor (if we want to continue his midfield development)

This is before any trade ins/FA/2023 and 2024 draft. It's not a bad start IMO (especially if Bruhn gets kept out at GWS and we bring him home end of next year)

Treading the fine line between hope and just drinking the kool aid ... its always difficult projecting with accuracy. We are heading in the right direction. it would have been easy to look at someone like Greg Clark yet we have not.... but we need to add some high end quality and find a couple of lucky dips. Close, Evans and Dempsey for example

Id give up on FA's for the moment until our side is being held up by younger players. Perhaps a couple of trades could be considered. Perhaps . Has to be the right player.

 

[MacStradbroke]

I'm certainly not going to come at you as I 100% agree agree. His VFL form was simply just above the level.

I think a lot of people would be surprised to hear he had a 47% contested possession rate. That is a lot higher than a lot of full time inside mids. What does this mean? He is an absolute gun at getting the lose ground balls which highlights his intelligence and work rate. And he is so clean at ground level you barely even notice him. I think I only saw him fumble at ground level once this year. A real 1 touch player.

It also highlights his rate of improvement. 12 months ago he had zero inside game. So to be able to find his own ball like he did this year is significant improvement in such a short time period. Like the coaches felt comfortable enough to let him stand next to Petracca at stopages in a prelim final.

Another thing I'd like to add is that I haven't seen many first year players who understand space as well as he does. When going for the ground balls he really tries to protect the space and really makes good handball decisions to the man where the space is.

This is where I see tremendous upside with his pace and foot skills. Once he gains a bit of confidence and puts on some muscle he is just going to burst through these small pockets of space into the wide open space where he can use his foot skills and gain a lot of meterage.

Not to mention he was playing on about 60% game time this year which will means all his stats will naturally go up 20-30% over the coming years.

Combining Walsh, Duncan and Danger is a bit extreme but my best attempt at comparing him to one player would be Josh Kelly. Obviously isn't a Josh Kelly clone but like him Holmes can do some really clever things at the stoppage but really excels at spreading from that first initial contest. This means he can also start on the wing or at half forward and still be able to find his 25 impactful touches in a game game.

I was really disappointed hearing so many fans give him flack when he won the best young player. People saying stuff like "if he is our best young player our future is doomed." I understand why though. It's because your average joe just notices him stuffing up in front of goal so that is all they can base their opinion on.

Really excited to follow his development.

In 5 years everyone will be saying they always thought he’d be a gun.

knew had the legs, I was pleasantly surprised by his vision in tight. Used the ball very well in Traffic. Really did produce a first season worthy of a single figure draft pick.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

very clever trading by geelong stocking up on the third and fourth round extra picks for next season, as it puts us in a strong spot to snatch a clubs first round pick like brisbane's next season by bundling up points they need for a top 5 bid.

could turn our 3x3rd + 2x4ths into a late first round pick. if we finish high enough even our second rounder might be ok to chuck in.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Been a long time since our first pick was a ruckman..


I really feel like we looked at 2025 in this draft by going hard at the two early Falcons.

I think we have bemoaned the lack of commitment to draft a young ruck, now we cant say that. For the moment our petri dish is loaded and we will have to see what grows. I get the sense that we have recognised that we had tilted at windmill long enough.

I still harbour reservations to the approach to list management in recent years, but I am %100 on board with (finally) investing in a young ruck Turbo, and you won't hear me moaning if it takes a few years to get young Conway up to speed - could be two steps back for every step forward for a while to come, but he has the raw materials and time on his side.
Hopefully Ceglar and Stanley will impart everything they can to the kid before they ride off into the sunset.

 

[Turbocat]

It’s amazing how much one draft can boost our morale and optimism for the future. It’s great to know the club see where improvement and reinforcements are needed. Looking at our draftees, I think there’s a lot of promise. If it turns out anything similar to our 2016 haul, we’d be laughing. We won’t know for 3-5 years at least. I honestly still believe we’re good enough to finish top 4. I agree and think we’ll try to trade our R3&4 picks to Brisbane for their R1 next year. Leaves us with 2 likely early teens picks (and our future R1). There’s still lots of time between now and next draft. What draft range would we expect Jhye Clark to be if he continues improving at an expected rate?

Be difficult to replicate 2016 but I guess we can hope. We should know quickly as Parfitt and Stewart were almost best22 from 2017 on.

 

[Cameron_Jezza]

very clever trading by geelong stocking up on the third and fourth round extra picks for next season, as it puts us in a strong spot to snatch a clubs first round pick like brisbane's next season by bundling up points they need for a top 5 bid.

could turn our 3x3rd + 2x4ths into a late first round pick. if we finish high enough even our second rounder might be ok to chuck in.

They will only be able to use as many picks as they have list spots. We may not be able to use all those 3rd rounders, might have to trade into 23.
Remember gold coast also have enormous number of 2nd,3rd rounders, so there will be competition for Brisbane's first rounder.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

So, after the drafts are done and dusted we can now look at the list and also look into the future at the likely list changes coming at the end of 2022.

I’d say the following are either certain or likely to finish up -

Higgins, Dahlhaus, Selwood, Smith, Narkle, Z.Guthrie and possibly Tuohy.

That’s 4 mids, 2 back flankers and one small forward.

We are clearly also deficient in tall defenders already and probably a quality young KPF albeit Neale shows some signs.

What we do need though is elite quality. We are going to lose a fair bit of it over the next couple of years.

Reckon we just pay what it takes to get Jhye Clark. Even if that is 2 first round picks. Then look for further mid sized players as well as a KPD. A couple of decent FA’s may also be useful as I doubt we can cover all our list changes through the draft alone.

Good take.
I agree next year should be sel (sadly) higgins and dahls last. I think rohan will be the other one retired/delisted as some of our kids surpass him (say evans and stengle etc). Tuohy hawkins and smith are still key players and their form is good enough to see 2023 if they want to go on so 50/50 on them. Stanley would be the other 50/50 one age wise.

The depth players are interesting..long term i dont think narkle or zuthrie are anything more than gap fillers (simpson is different he has real talent just needs a clear run with injury and will be best 22 imo) but given we have only one player left on the list from ND in 2017 (miers) and none from ND in 2018 you might need to keep a couple of the depth players for a year or two until the 19/20 drafted kids are ready so we arent throwing too many in the deep end at once. Given that gap in 17/18 but also our needs in midfield and defence its absolutely critical stephens and de koning see some afl footy this year.

You would assume we will attack free agents aggressively given the retirements will give us a lot of cap space.
Positionally id say our key needs would be a kpf to replace hawk if sav doesnt look capable of holding that spot down by the end of next year.
A key defender (probably 2) given blitz will be over 30 and the jury is out on kolo for mine.
A running defender would be needed to eventually succeed tuohy.
I know we basically drafted 4 mids along with conway but 1 more good mid in next years draft is needed given selwood likely retiring and danger menegola duncan and guthrie will all be either 30 or beyond.
Trade wise you would assume guys that fill the above positions would be targeted plus ollie henry and bruhn if they are still unsigned halfway through the year.
Obviously number of changes will depend on list numbers but atkins will have to be elevated (unless delisted) and i imagine close will be also.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

They will only be able to use as many picks as they have list spots. We may not be able to use all those 3rd rounders, might have to trade into 23.
Remember gold coast also have enormous number of 2nd,3rd rounders, so there will be competition for Brisbane's first rounder.

True although gc have some good academy players next year that they will need to use some of their picks to match bids for.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Was thinking about this the other day, and I reckon we end up doing the following:

Retire: Higgins, Dahl, Rohan, Sel
Delist: Narkle
Trade (due to request to return home to WA): Neale
Upgrade: Atkins and Close
Re-rookie: Z. Guthrie and Evans
1 year contract: I. Smith

Gives us 4 senior spots (5 if I. Smith doesn't go on - but he still looks at the height of his powers and could play another year or two yet). We have far more picks than that, so it stands to reason that we'll look to trade up/trade futures in - as next year is the year to get in a KPF and gun mid - Lemmey and Clark would be great, but probably more likely someone like Keeler.

We currently have (based on this year's draft):

Pick 15 (Geelong 1st)
Pick 33 (Geelong 2nd)
Pick 43 (Carlton Future 3rd)
Pick 50 (Brisbane Future 3rd)
Pick 51 (Geelong 3rd)
Pick 59 (Hawthorn Future 4th)
Geelong 2023 1st
Geelong 2023 2nd
Geelong 2023 3rd
Geelong 2023 4th

I'd say we end up trading our 2nd, all our 3rds and the Hawks 4th to Brisbane for Ashcroft - for their 1st (15-18). This ends up being around 1500 points - which will be far more than what their pick is worth, and will go a long way to covering him if he foes Top 5 as expected.

Next, we'll trade our Future 1st and 2nd to someone like Essendon for their 1st, who has bids for the Davey twins (could be anyone but just them as an example if they don't want to worry about that draft).

That gives us something like:

Pick 11 (Essendon 1st)
Pick 14 (Brisbane 1st)
Pick 15 (Geelong 1st)

Use a combination of those three 1sts to secure Clark and a KPF - then grab a couple of kids at the end of the draft, plus a couple of rooks.

That's how I read it anyway, as we have nowhere near enough spots as we got rid of most of our fringe players this year - and we now need to start targeting some real quality rather than depth

I think evans will have a really good year and stay on the senior list but i basically agree with the rest. I think the brisbane trade is optimistic as they might get better offers for that pick but agree on the other moves.
Tuohy and maybe Stanley or hawk would be possible retirements. The other older guys like danger duncan blitz etc are already contracted.

I like lemmey and keeler (if he doesnt get to crows as nga) and broadbent is the other tall id be really keen on.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Atm, if the draft was tomorrow he’d be a top 5 pick. Possibly top 3.

Im not sure about top 3 for clark- talls (in particular kpf) are always taken earlier as clubs know how hard they are to get so some guys like lemmey keeler broadbent etc will potentially push into the top 5 above him but i do agree its very very likely hes a R1 pick.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

They will only be able to use as many picks as they have list spots. We may not be able to use all those 3rd rounders, might have to trade into 23.
Remember gold coast also have enormous number of 2nd,3rd rounders, so there will be competition for Brisbane's first rounder.

as mentioned they have good academy players who will chew into these picks and weaken any stocks for that pick trade.

would still happily look at our second rounder and some third rounders for Brisbane’s first round pick.

would prefer us to take two first round picks to the draft and trade the rest if possible. Quality over quantity if possible next years draft.

not a bad draft to have two first rounders either given it’s touted to have good quality talls.

even if you don’t get a good quality tall, because the talls get snapped up within the top ten, you generally find better quality midfielders deeper into the first round for this reason, compared to a draft like this years where it was just a midfield ranking from start to finish of 1st round.

if selwood was not in the strong key position draft of 06, he would not have lasted till pick 7.. all of gumbleton, hansen, luenberger and Mitch thorp went ahead of him.. so 4/6 picks prior were key position. In a midfield draft he would have gone a bit higher regardless of his knee

 

[Warhorse]

Jack Higgins is not fringe if he can sort out his set shot conversion he will be an absolute gun.

More to it than that. Compassionate reasons they let him go. Like geelong, Richmond look after fringe players knowing it will help us retain players in the future

 

[Turbocat]

Reading Knightmares review..says we traded up for Sheldrick, and that we got messed up a bit by him being taken by Syd at 18. I wonder what we do if we do take Sheldrick, would still take the other 3 or 4 and have 5 little grunt machines?

I still harbour reservations to the approach to list management in recent years, but I am %100 on board with (finally) investing in a young ruck Turbo, and you won't hear me moaning if it takes a few years to get young Conway up to speed - could be two steps back for every step forward for a while to come, but he has the raw materials and time on his side.
Hopefully Ceglar and Stanley will impart everything they can to the kid before they ride off into the sunset.

Reservations. I think we tilted at windmills a little too long, and we lost peripheral vision a bit. Perhaps not getting a deal done at times might have been better but most in the industry think different to supporters.. although I think its irronic that now Cook has gone to Carlton , he say in an interview its time for us to go with kids., and we are basically pot committed for 2022.

Darcy played games quickly , so dis SKing back in the day. id not rule it out totally but logically id say we do not see Conway till late 2023 probably 2024. .. and thats OK. Be nice if he surprises us but its not essential, it more important that he is ready to go when he is really needed. I hope Neale presses for a game at some stage in 22, no games after two years for him might not be as clever. Tsap is the mystery bag.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

More to it than that. Compassionate reasons they let him go. Like geelong, Richmond look after fringe players knowing it will help us retain players in the future

That has to do with why they let him go but hes not a fringe player he would have been clear best 15 at richmond as he is at st kilda.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Reading Knightmares review..says we traded up for Sheldrick, and that we got messed up a bit by him being taken by Syd at 18. I wonder what we do if we do take Sheldrick, would still take the other 3 or 4 and have 5 little grunt machines?





Reservations. I think we tilted and windmills a little too long, and we lost peripheral vision a bit. Perhaps not getting a deal done at times might have been better but most in the industry think different to supporters.. although thinks its irronic that now Cook has gone to Carlton , he say in an interview its time for us to go with kids., and we are basically pot committed for 2022.

Darcy played games quickly , so dis SKing back in the day. id not rule it out totally but logically id say we do not see Conway till late 2023 probably 2024. .. and thats OK. Be nice if he surprises us but its not essential, it more important that he is ready to go when he is really needed. I hope Neale presses for a game at some stage in 22, no games after two years for him might not be as clever. Tsap is the mystery bag.

The Quixote allusion works on a couple of levels, nice one TC.

I think it was Neil Balme that said all clubs always have either one too many or one too few rucks on their list - it's a hard balance to get right.

Agree with your sentiments re: Conway; 2022 in the VFL with a view to a late 2023 debut, form and fitness permitting.

I like the sound of Neale's running capacity but I fear he might fall into the ''tweener'' category; at any rate there may be some go-home factor here too.

If Tsapatolis is smart he'll be eyeing up Conway's strengths and weaknesses right about now.

 

[Biscut]

I'm certainly not going to come at you as I 100% agree agree. His VFL form was simply just above the level.

I think a lot of people would be surprised to hear he had a 47% contested possession rate. That is a lot higher than a lot of full time inside mids. What does this mean? He is an absolute gun at getting the lose ground balls which highlights his intelligence and work rate. And he is so clean at ground level you barely even notice him. I think I only saw him fumble at ground level once this year. A real 1 touch player.

It also highlights his rate of improvement. 12 months ago he had zero inside game. So to be able to find his own ball like he did this year is significant improvement in such a short time period. Like the coaches felt comfortable enough to let him stand next to Petracca at stopages in a prelim final.

Another thing I'd like to add is that I haven't seen many first year players who understand space as well as he does. When going for the ground balls he really tries to protect the space and really makes good handball decisions to the man where the space is.

This is where I see tremendous upside with his pace and foot skills. Once he gains a bit of confidence and puts on some muscle he is just going to burst through these small pockets of space into the wide open space where he can use his foot skills and gain a lot of meterage.

Not to mention he was playing on about 60% game time this year which will means all his stats will naturally go up 20-30% over the coming years.

Combining Walsh, Duncan and Danger is a bit extreme but my best attempt at comparing him to one player would be Josh Kelly. Obviously isn't a Josh Kelly clone but like him Holmes can do some really clever things at the stoppage but really excels at spreading from that first initial contest. This means he can also start on the wing or at half forward and still be able to find his 25 impactful touches in a game game.

I was really disappointed hearing so many fans give him flack when he won the best young player. People saying stuff like "if he is our best young player our future is doomed." I understand why though. It's because your average joe just notices him stuffing up in front of goal so that is all they can base their opinion on.

Really excited to follow his development.

i could not agree with you more! I also look past the missed goals as I know they will come for this bloke. He’s an outstanding prospect and I’m so delighted we traded up to get him, absolutely blessed we are with him in the team.

 

[Warhorse]

That has to do with why they let him go but hes not a fringe player he would have been clear best 15 at richmond as he is at st kilda.

29 goals in 43 games as a forward pocket at Richmond. Not my definition of a 'deadset gun'