Rumour GFC 2023 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists Pt1

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As we are now getting into the season and we are starting to get a bit more serious with discussion, seems a suitable time to post the following as it's repeatedly shown itself to be a value reference tool in trade & draft discussion

And as per normal, thanks to Lore for putting this together - always a fantastic reference tool



And yes this post is now stickied - makes it easy to keep track of (can easily reverse this though if needed)
 
D BRIDGE said:
Yes.

Duncan is a 2x premiership player and still running around for us.

I wouldn't go back in time and change it if given the option.

Mummy would have been handy in the handful of years he was really doing his thing though.
Click to expand...
What we did wrong was sign Mark Blake first in the weeks prior to mummy choosing to leave so not enough money for Mummy to stay. I would have been happier for Blake to move on earlier.

To be fair to the club though, I’m not sure how much more Mummy wanted and I may have told him he’s dreaming if he wanted to much.
 
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TheMenz Gallery said:
What we did wrong was sign Mark Blake first in the weeks prior to mummy choosing to leave so not enough money for Mummy to stay. I would have been happier for Blake to move on earlier.
Click to expand...
Mummy 100% clearly much better than Blake... I'm not changing history though.

Duncan has been huge for us and a 2x premiership player.
 
Pure_Ownage said:
NBA is so different because with 5 on the court one player can make such a difference hence teams are prepared to mortgage their future for a difference maker. Im not sure its comparable to the 18 a side game. I do agree there need to be some future pick restrictions to protect teams though maybe only 2 years in advance etc.
Click to expand...

I agree that every sport is different.. but trading 6 years ahead out seems ludicrous. An unprotected pick ...they could coulkd bottom out and be trading out a top5 pick, a P1.. A leBron or Jordan.. In AFL its bad enough just one year trading out Judd.

And how does their FA rules work. He was threatening to walk as a FA. So how long do the Mavs have him now. Is he still a FA at years end.


In our game, while I believe that if clubs are silly enough to hang themselves then they should just have to suck it up, my feeling is the more you allow to be traded..the more clubs will demand in trade. Its inflationary. Allow 2 years in advance..and almost certainly clubs will ask for 3 R1 picks for certain players.. what would we have had to pay for Henry?

I could imagine that clubs would pay it with blue sky eyes and then having to absorb the pain for years trade out three R1 picks for a player , lets say Ben King ... heck of a risk all on one player. Another knee and who knows


I feel the 2 in 4 years needs refinement and maybe you can trade out all of next years picks if you wish ..as long as the players being brought in have a projection of years left or something. Bruhn and Henry costing us early picks hardly hurts our future. They are basically draft picks closer to ready to play. Its like we have had three or four R1 picks in the draft in 2022. One might argue its the biggest infusion of youthful quality in a decade or two.
 
CatToTheFuture said:
Noted by Dwyane Russell that Ollie Henry is training with the defenders and was a stand out "by a mile".

Might be giving him some development, might be sending SDK forward to cover Hawkins if Neale is injured too
Click to expand...
So far its all very promising...I look forward to the trial games.
 
CatToTheFuture said:
Noted by Dwyane Russell that Ollie Henry is training with the defenders and was a stand out "by a mile".

Might be giving him some development, might be sending SDK forward to cover Hawkins if Neale is injured too
Click to expand...
Not sure when Pipe mentioned this but he said after the intraclub he watched last week that Henry played on a wing and then went forward
Nothing about playing back
 
TheMenz Gallery said:
What we did wrong was sign Mark Blake first in the weeks prior to mummy choosing to leave so not enough money for Mummy to stay. I would have been happier for Blake to move on earlier.

To be fair to the club though, I’m not sure how much more Mummy wanted and I may have told him he’s dreaming if he wanted to much.
Click to expand...

Not really wanting to "mention the war" and derail this with off topic chat, but the bold isn't what happened and no matter how many times that line gets repeated it doesn't make it true...

Both Mumford & Blake were out of contract following the 2009 season & heading into the trade period - Mumford had been offered a contract by Geelong but accepted a longer & higher value deal with Sydney, while Blake wasn't re-signed until after the trade period and himself rejected a 3-year deal from St Kilda

This from an article (thanks North) detailing the Mumford trade to Sydney & Drum trade to Geelong - it then finishes with this: "It's hoping to retain dual premiership player David Wojcinski. Mark Blake and Mathew Stokes may need to wait until the end of this week before signing new deals."


www.nmfc.com.au

Mumford to Swans, Geelong gets Drum

ROOKIE-LISTED ruckman Shane Mumford has left Geelong to begin life as a Sydney Swan, however, the Cats have been successful in their bid to land Fremantle defen
www.nmfc.com.au www.nmfc.com.au
 
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cats_09 said:
Not really wanting to "mention the war" and derail this with off topic chat, but the bold isn't what happened and no matter how many times that line gets repeated it doesn't make it true...

Both Mumford & Blake were out of contract following the 2009 season & heading into the trade period - Mumford had been offered a contract by Geelong but accepted a longer & higher value deal with Sydney, while Blake wasn't re-signed until after the trade period and himself rejected a 3-year deal from St Kilda

This from an article (thanks North) detailing the Mumford trade to Sydney & Drum trade to Geelong - it then finishes with this: "It's hoping to retain dual premiership player David Wojcinski. Mark Blake and Mathew Stokes may need to wait until the end of this week before signing new deals."


www.nmfc.com.au

Mumford to Swans, Geelong gets Drum

ROOKIE-LISTED ruckman Shane Mumford has left Geelong to begin life as a Sydney Swan, however, the Cats have been successful in their bid to land Fremantle defen
www.nmfc.com.au www.nmfc.com.au
Click to expand...

My memory of it was that Mummy played a lot of footy in 2009 , then late in the year was dropped. Swans saw enough to offer him more than we could. He was a little bit peeved to have been dropped, although he was still a Rookie and geelong had basically given him a chance. What complicated this was the non playing of Blake ion 07 , then the withdraw of a contract offer for Kimng who then landed at StKilda.


I think relevant to this thread it shows how delicate it can be with the ruck position ..if the ruckman expect to play.


Rucks get injured, its not a role to be light in. We have been fortuate to have Blitz .. but at his age ..we need to plan for the future, so we probably need a young developing ruck as well just in case Coway turns into Daw Simpson...and then we may have the issue just like we had with Mummy.

To me its obvious we must bring in a ruck of some sort at years end. 11 year gap between Conway and Stanley mean Conway may not be ready when Stanley and or Ceglar are done. I don't see a lot of mid 20's rucks that could add moneyball style.
 

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Pure_Ownage said:
If henrys been in defense its more to teach him defensive pressure which is the weakest part of his game. Doubt he plays there much this year (afl or vfl) as he is a natural fwd.
Click to expand...

Just from a philosophical pov where do you sit on defensive expectations for natural forwards?


Guys like GAsr5 and Dan Menzel copped plenty of criticism for lack of def pressure. Other "forwards" who can be more like defenders who play forward ..who struggle to every worry the scorer. I was never really worried about GAsr chasing.. and when he brought def pressure , it was not placebo defence.. opponents felt a fear for their safety.. I cant say one would want Plugger wasting to much energy chasing his opponent.

Id say Rohan improvement has come about when he focused less on what he did naturally and using his talent to chase down and tackle yet it was his natural talent that allowed him to mark and kick his Pies goal in the final.


To me D is more an attitude thing, and some of that is feeling strong and mature enough to bring physical heat. And to some degree, something those with less talent usually focus on. (speaking from personal experience) Yet we have some players who we have all seen who's attitude towards D is that it' work. A bit like some players that never seem to get themselves to the best selves in fitness and strength.


I probably have not studied OH close enough but he look like a player that may allow a defender to depart while he backs himself to remain free, read the play and get the ball and be potentially damaging. Historically in an ordinary side this type of player may cost goals.. and in a good side this type of player can score and win games and draw a defender.




In the end I feel forward are hard to find than defenders... and its usually better to play players in the position that suits their talent/skill set.
 
Strange Cat said:
Poor Dallas will have to deal with that cancer for the future …Irving is poison
Click to expand...
It's unfortunately common in the NBA. Being such a star driven league, and due to having significanty smaller rosters, clubs will allow players like Irving to join simply because it brings media attention, ticket sales and merchandise.

The same could be said for Australian sports, but it happens far less frequently and there's also a reduced amount of those cancerous players due to our sports traditionally being team focused environments.

I love the NBA, but the players for the most part behave and carry on like players who play individual sports. With that comes yes-men, egos, and eventually what you get with a Kyrie Irving type, where nobody's around to tell him that what he's doing is ludicrous or just blantantly wrong.
 
cats_09 said:
Not really wanting to "mention the war" and derail this with off topic chat, but the bold isn't what happened and no matter how many times that line gets repeated it doesn't make it true...

Both Mumford & Blake were out of contract following the 2009 season & heading into the trade period - Mumford had been offered a contract by Geelong but accepted a longer & higher value deal with Sydney, while Blake wasn't re-signed until after the trade period and himself rejected a 3-year deal from St Kilda

This from an article (thanks North) detailing the Mumford trade to Sydney & Drum trade to Geelong - it then finishes with this: "It's hoping to retain dual premiership player David Wojcinski. Mark Blake and Mathew Stokes may need to wait until the end of this week before signing new deals."


www.nmfc.com.au

Mumford to Swans, Geelong gets Drum

ROOKIE-LISTED ruckman Shane Mumford has left Geelong to begin life as a Sydney Swan, however, the Cats have been successful in their bid to land Fremantle defen
www.nmfc.com.au www.nmfc.com.au
Click to expand...
The article only says Mummy agreed to terms doesn’t say he has signed a contract. I could argue Blake agreed to terms prior as he was the preferred ruckman during the finals series, played in a premiership, played at the the club he supported as a kid, played at the club his father was a best and fairest at. Therefore, less of a flight risk than Mummy so no need to get pen to paper quickly.

You made the point he rejected an offer from the Saints. If this occurred prior to this article then that further proves my point Geelong knew he was staying. If it occurred during/after this then more reason to get Mummy signed. Mummy was always going to be the better footballer and should have always been the priority signing.

Unfortunately, I can’t find any articles to back any of this up so more than happy to bend the knee on this one.
 
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Turbocat said:
Just from a philosophical pov where do you sit on defensive expectations for natural forwards?


Guys like GAsr5 and Dan Menzel copped plenty of criticism for lack of def pressure. Other "forwards" who can be more like defenders who play forward ..who struggle to every worry the scorer. I was never really worried about GAsr chasing.. and when he brought def pressure , it was not placebo defence.. opponents felt a fear for their safety.. I cant say one would want Plugger wasting to much energy chasing his opponent.

Id say Rohan improvement has come about when he focused less on what he did naturally and using his talent to chase down and tackle yet it was his natural talent that allowed him to mark and kick his Pies goal in the final.


To me D is more an attitude thing, and some of that is feeling strong and mature enough to bring physical heat. And to some degree, something those with less talent usually focus on. (speaking from personal experience) Yet we have some players who we have all seen who's attitude towards D is that it' work. A bit like some players that never seem to get themselves to the best selves in fitness and strength.


I probably have not studied OH close enough but he look like a player that may allow a defender to depart while he backs himself to remain free, read the play and get the ball and be potentially damaging. Historically in an ordinary side this type of player may cost goals.. and in a good side this type of player can score and win games and draw a defender.




In the end I feel forward are hard to find than defenders... and its usually better to play players in the position that suits their talent/skill set.
Click to expand...
There are some good points you raise there. Are less talented players better defensively because they are always behind naturally so have to defend?
Are the more talented players unable to do multiple repeat sprints so conserve energy to make the most of their attacking moves?
Im not sure what the answers are but I’m sure all players should be rated on a case by case basis.


In the case of O Henry I’ve enjoyed seeing vision of him following his brother around. This is a great match up for the preseason. They have probably been fighting over the last pancake and the dinner table since they were kids. Jack will never want to lose to him but will teach him everything he needs to know. This can only be good for his development.
 
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Turbocat said:
Bruhn and Henry costing us early picks hardly hurts our future. They are basically draft picks closer to ready to play. Its like we have had three or four R1 picks in the draft in 2022. One might argue its the biggest infusion of youthful quality in a decade or two.
Click to expand...
Surely there is little argument about this. Have had one top ten pick (and it was #10) since 2006. This year, we've added four players who were taken in the first round of the national draft. And the oldest of them has just turned 25, with the other three being 21 or younger.

I totally understand that they may not all become quality contributors for the club. Still, that's a thoroughly insane haul for any team in an off-season. And it's absolute madness for a club that just won the flag.

#lovethisclub
 
Turbocat said:
Just from a philosophical pov where do you sit on defensive expectations for natural forwards?


Guys like GAsr5 and Dan Menzel copped plenty of criticism for lack of def pressure. Other "forwards" who can be more like defenders who play forward ..who struggle to every worry the scorer. I was never really worried about GAsr chasing.. and when he brought def pressure , it was not placebo defence.. opponents felt a fear for their safety.. I cant say one would want Plugger wasting to much energy chasing his opponent.

Id say Rohan improvement has come about when he focused less on what he did naturally and using his talent to chase down and tackle yet it was his natural talent that allowed him to mark and kick his Pies goal in the final.


To me D is more an attitude thing, and some of that is feeling strong and mature enough to bring physical heat. And to some degree, something those with less talent usually focus on. (speaking from personal experience) Yet we have some players who we have all seen who's attitude towards D is that it' work. A bit like some players that never seem to get themselves to the best selves in fitness and strength.


I probably have not studied OH close enough but he look like a player that may allow a defender to depart while he backs himself to remain free, read the play and get the ball and be potentially damaging. Historically in an ordinary side this type of player may cost goals.. and in a good side this type of player can score and win games and draw a defender.




In the end I feel forward are hard to find than defenders... and its usually better to play players in the position that suits their talent/skill set.
Click to expand...

You raise some interesting points Turbocat

I think the GF illustrates how we want to play and that was predicated on a relentless level of Team Defence which completely dismantled the Swans.
We led the Competition in scores from opposition turnovers and also in conceding scores from our turnovers in 2022 - that result suggests we use it well when we get it and defend well when the opposition has it.
I think Hawk is the only one off the top of my head that "goes through the motions on defence" whereas everyone else seems to bust their balls - so I think Ollie will be expected to play his role defensively as we can't have too many not doing that.

I also think that on the example you give that Ollie would chase and pressure his defender but beat him back to spots where he could be used to score.
Roll on 2023.:think:
 
Farmer2Goggin said:
You raise some interesting points Turbocat

I think the GF illustrates how we want to play and that was predicated on a relentless level of Team Defence which completely dismantled the Swans.
We led the Competition in scores from opposition turnovers and also in conceding scores from our turnovers in 2022 - that result suggests we use it well when we get it and defend well when the opposition has it.
I think Hawk is the only one off the top of my head that "goes through the motions on defence" whereas everyone else seems to bust their balls - so I think Ollie will be expected to play his role defensively as we can't have too many not doing that.

I also think that on the example you give that Ollie would chase and pressure his defender but beat him back to spots where he could be used to score.
Roll on 2023.:think:
Click to expand...

Id say scoreboard pressure matched physical toughness was more 2022 rather than type of forward press pressure that we relied on when we played slower ...but its 6 of one and 1/2 a dozen of the other.. it just depends on the way you see it.

Id say id personally be tolerant of OH while he is developing but as he gets bigger and more mature id expect more but we will see. Rohan has a nice blend but its taken him a long time to get to where he is now. I look forward to seeing what OH offers but if he marks and retains the ball (as has been reported)
 
Turbocat said:
Id say scoreboard pressure matched physical toughness was more 2022 rather than type of forward press pressure that we relied on when we played slower ...but its 6 of one and 1/2 a dozen of the other.. it just depends on the way you see it.

Id say id personally be tolerant of OH while he is developing but as he gets bigger and more mature id expect more but we will see. Rohan has a nice blend but its taken him a long time to get to where he is now. I look forward to seeing what OH offers but if he marks and retains the ball (as has been reported)
Click to expand...

Cheers Turbo and I agree that the old forward pressure ( Dalhaus/Atkins/Higgins) game plan was turfed in 2022 as we became overall more turnover focused.
Close , Miers and Stengle and their ability to get up the ground made such a diference.
We might place more emphasis on clearance this season with the midfield quality we have traded/drafted - interesting how Scott will approach it.
Really interested to see what Bruhn/Bowes and OH have to offer plus if Jhye C can press for selection.
 
Kobe Gryant said:
It's unfortunately common in the NBA. Being such a star driven league, and due to having significanty smaller rosters, clubs will allow players like Irving to join simply because it brings media attention, ticket sales and merchandise.

The same could be said for Australian sports, but it happens far less frequently and there's also a reduced amount of those cancerous players due to our sports traditionally being team focused environments.

I love the NBA, but the players for the most part behave and carry on like players who play individual sports. With that comes yes-men, egos, and eventually what you get with a Kyrie Irving type, where nobody's around to tell him that what he's doing is ludicrous or just blantantly wrong.
Click to expand...
It's the main reason Jeremy Lin stayed in the league such a long time. He must have half the league's tops hanging in his closet.
From the movie Draft Day, team's do try to make a splash or something to show they are not doing nothing. Bring in a nearly over the hill player who has a big name, sell more season tickets or merch, etc.
"Action is seen to be taken, confidence is restored."

US sports has been a lot more about independent contractors that Aus type clubs, for a long time. Very few professional teams would have no dickhead policies. If takes a lot for a team to get rid of a cancer, as witnessed in the NFL.
 
Farmer2Goggin said:
You raise some interesting points Turbocat

I think the GF illustrates how we want to play and that was predicated on a relentless level of Team Defence which completely dismantled the Swans.
We led the Competition in scores from opposition turnovers and also in conceding scores from our turnovers in 2022 - that result suggests we use it well when we get it and defend well when the opposition has it.
I think Hawk is the only one off the top of my head that "goes through the motions on defence" whereas everyone else seems to bust their balls - so I think Ollie will be expected to play his role defensively as we can't have too many not doing that.

I also think that on the example you give that Ollie would chase and pressure his defender but beat him back to spots where he could be used to score.
Roll on 2023.:think:
Click to expand...
I can remember watching a very young Hawkins in 07 or 08 look very lacklustre in defensive efforts. This is what ultimately kept him out of the team I believe.
Thompson insisted on the best defenders playing forward of the ball, the best attackers behind it. Hawk just wasn't ready to play an integral part in that team.
But even then, you just knew that the big guy would make it eventually. You look at the workrate now and what he does off the ball. It's not chasing but positioning. He just knows where to be not just to beat his own opponent, but sometimes to draw and beat a few others as well - to create opportunities for teammates.
It may be a similar thing for OH, just like others like JUH. There's probably still a lot to learn for him in terms of forward craft. Workrate should be non-negotiable. How he uses the talent and footy nous is most important. We shouldn't just be expecting him to chase and tackle like Rohan does if that's not his natural game. But if we get to see him use his smarts when we're not in possession, then surely he's got a bright future.
 
standupand said:
I can remember watching a very young Hawkins in 07 or 08 look very lacklustre in defensive efforts. This is what ultimately kept him out of the team I believe.
Thompson insisted on the best defenders playing forward of the ball, the best attackers behind it. Hawk just wasn't ready to play an integral part in that team.
But even then, you just knew that the big guy would make it eventually. You look at the workrate now and what he does off the ball. It's not chasing but positioning. He just knows where to be not just to beat his own opponent, but sometimes to draw and beat a few others as well - to create opportunities for teammates.
Click to expand...

Maybe...but in 07 Nathan Ablett was a talented prospect. Looking back...maybe he should have been given a go in 08 but Lonergan looked good at times. He has admitted that he looks backl and say he wasted those years not being fit enough. Either Nathan or a fit young Tom Hawkins in the forwardline..and 08 may have been different.

standupand said:
It may be a similar thing for OH, just like others like JUH. There's probably still a lot to learn for him in terms of forward craft. Workrate should be non-negotiable. How he uses the talent and footy nous is most important. We shouldn't just be expecting him to chase and tackle like Rohan does if that's not his natural game. But if we get to see him use his smarts when we're not in possession, then surely he's got a bright future.
Click to expand...

Agree. Don't expect him to be a finished product.
 
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