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Janus

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Gupta put out his annual Christmas message to staff on Christmas eve. Cultana gets a specific mention early as part of their long term use of renewables to produce "Green Steel," but at 2.23 he mentions hydrogen and its application to green steel, but doesn't expand on the hows, whats and whens.

Plenty of activity by GFG in Oz and around the world in 2019 and doesn't look like it will slow down in 2020.


”The world’s largest “green” hydrogen production facility has commenced operation at a steel mill in Austria, where it will seek to demonstrate that fossil fuels can be replaced for industrial uses such as steel production.

The 6MW “CO2-neutral” hydrogen production facility is backed by 18 million ($A29 million) in funding from the European Union, and is intended to test whether CO2-neutral (“green”) hydrogen is suitable for use on an industrial scale.“
 

Tredz

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”The world’s largest “green” hydrogen production facility has commenced operation at a steel mill in Austria, where it will seek to demonstrate that fossil fuels can be replaced for industrial uses such as steel production.

The 6MW “CO2-neutral” hydrogen production facility is backed by 18 million ($A29 million) in funding from the European Union, and is intended to test whether CO2-neutral (“green”) hydrogen is suitable for use on an industrial scale.“
I don't think the question of hydrogen being suitable for use on an industrial scale is the issue but more can it be produced economically on an industrial scale? Solve this issue and most of our energy and climate change/environmental issues will be solved. At least there are some people working on it.

 

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Janus

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I don't think the question of hydrogen being suitable for use on an industrial scale is the issue but more can it be produced economically on an industrial scale? Solve this issue and most of our energy and climate change/environmental issues will be solved. At least there are some people working on it.

"Using coal to produce hydrogen would be the best and cheapest way to build a low-emissions export industry and provide an alternative to battery-powered cars.

In a submission to the National Hydrogen Strategy today, industry group Coal21 will say using coal to produce hydrogen is up to 13 times cheaper than using curtailed renewable energy.

State and federal governments are supporting development of a hydrogen industry that could be a major domestic and export opportunity.


Coal21 will say a technology-neutral approach should be taken to include black and brown coal.

Established in 2006, Coal21 is a $555 million investment by Australia’s coal industry to research, develop and deploy low-emissions coal technology such as carbon capture, utilisation and storage (CCUS) and coal gasification.

The group says black coal combined with CCUS offers the real prospect of low-cost and reliable hydrogen but has been largely overlooked."

"Japan's strategic hydrogen roadmap, released earlier this year, states plainly that 2020 targets are set "assuming the success of Japan-Australia brown coal-to-hydrogen project".

That project, a trial using coal from Latrobe Valley in Victoria, will demonstrate how Australia's hydrogen export industry — and Japan's imports — might work."

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Hydrogen production from coal is relatively expensive because it requires carbon capture and underground storage - pumping it down into dry oil wells and letting it permeate the substrate.

The development of a carbon scrubbing system, like the electrolysis system developed at MIT this year, could be the answer.
 

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British billionaire and Whyalla steelworks owner Sanjeev Gupta has sold a key investment less than three years after purchasing it amid a push to cut costs within his international business.
 

RussellEbertHandball

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British billionaire and Whyalla steelworks owner Sanjeev Gupta has sold a key investment less than three years after purchasing it amid a push to cut costs within his international business.
Was actually looking at when GFG brought a majority stake in ZEN on Monday.

Looks like GFG are getting out of the consumer side of the solar generated electricity market but keeping the industrial side. Pity I was looking forward to a fully integrated approach from our sponsors that the club offers to members - buy a Zen energy solar panel and battery solution and use it to run your MG ZSEV model.

The sale will see ZEN Energy retain the electricity and energy services business undertaken during the merger.

That includes significant energy supply contracts with the South Australian Government, the University of Adelaide and a number of industrial clients.

Project development businesses, such as the Cultana Solar Farm near the Whyalla steelworks, will be owned by SIMEC Energy Australia.
 

Power Raid

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Was actually looking at when GFG brought a majority stake in ZEN on Monday.

Looks like GFG are getting out of the consumer side of the solar generated electricity market but keeping the industrial side. Pity I was looking forward to a fully integrated approach from our sponsors that the club offers to members - buy a Zen energy solar panel and battery solution and use it to run your MG ZSEV model.

The sale will see ZEN Energy retain the electricity and energy services business undertaken during the merger.

That includes significant energy supply contracts with the South Australian Government, the University of Adelaide and a number of industrial clients.

Project development businesses, such as the Cultana Solar Farm near the Whyalla steelworks, will be owned by SIMEC Energy Australia.
Gupta is running a sales process for the Whyalla Steel works

not sure what is going on with his business.
 

Janus

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This was an op-ed from Gupta from a couple of weeks ago:

"It makes more economic sense for Australia to produce and export green steel than to export hydrogen. Value-added green steel will be in high demand globally given the growing momentum in decarbonisation. This could be the foundation for an industrial revival in Australia, offering it the chance to be a global leader in a new hydrogen economy.

We’ve been working hard on this through our Greensteel transformation plans at the Whyalla Steelworks, in South Australia.

Whyalla’s time to shine on the world stage is now. It has the best conditions for solar and onshore wind energy anywhere in the world (hence our 280MW Cultana Solar Farm initiative), abundant magnetite iron ore reserves which enable new, less carbon-intensive technologies and processes to be used, a deep-sea port, a skilled workforce and supportive community and government. All the necessary ingredients are there for a world-leading green steel hub."
 

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TheBrownDog
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This was an op-ed from Gupta from a couple of weeks ago:

"It makes more economic sense for Australia to produce and export green steel than to export hydrogen. Value-added green steel will be in high demand globally given the growing momentum in decarbonisation. This could be the foundation for an industrial revival in Australia, offering it the chance to be a global leader in a new hydrogen economy.

We’ve been working hard on this through our Greensteel transformation plans at the Whyalla Steelworks, in South Australia.

Whyalla’s time to shine on the world stage is now. It has the best conditions for solar and onshore wind energy anywhere in the world (hence our 280MW Cultana Solar Farm initiative), abundant magnetite iron ore reserves which enable new, less carbon-intensive technologies and processes to be used, a deep-sea port, a skilled workforce and supportive community and government. All the necessary ingredients are there for a world-leading green steel hub."
I'm all for greensteel but let's get real:

1) desalinate water (energy)
2) separate hydrogen from oxygen (energy)
3) chill to minus 250 degrees (energy)

If Europe covered the entire continental land mass with solar panels, then covered that with wind turbines, there would not be sufficient energy to produce enough hydrogen for their needs.

For Greensteel to succeed, we will need to think outside of the box.
 

Janus

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I'm all for greensteel but let's get real:

1) desalinate water (energy)
2) separate hydrogen from oxygen (energy)
3) chill to minus 250 degrees (energy)

If Europe covered the entire continental land mass with solar panels, then covered that with wind turbines, there would not be sufficient energy to produce enough hydrogen for their needs.

For Greensteel to succeed, we will need to think outside of the box.
They already have technology being developed to use hydrogen reduction of iron ore. So that’s 20% reduction in carbon already. In fact, it might be the reason why Gupta wants to sell the current steelworks - in Europe they’ve got these things coming on line over the next few years, and he might want to raise capital to build a new plant.

I'm guessing steps 2 and 3 are the creation of liquid hydrogen to cryogenically harden the steel? There's a few solutions I've read about - one was to use salt caverns and pump the hydrogen into them which would naturally increase the pressure to 15 MPA (which is around 15 times the pressure that hydrogen turns into a liquid)...then they just siphon the liquid hydrogen out.

"Rock salt is essentially impermeable when subjected to the pressures commonly encountered in underground gas storage caverns. Most naturally-occurring rock salt deposits exhibit compressive strengths that exceed that of structural concrete.

Another extremely desirable mechanical characteristic of rock salt is its tendency to flow or creep when subjected to moderate stress differentials across the salt. This desirable deformation characteristic enables salt to be self-healing, if and when, a fracture might develop near an underground salt cavern due to any tectonic activity.

A scoping study recently performed by a consortium of Canadian-based salt cavern development experts confirmed from existing seismic and well data from a well located south of Blackall, Queensland, that the Boree Salt is a world-class salt deposit that appears to be suitable for the low-cost development of large salt caverns for gas storage application. The very pure and 500 m thick salt found 2,000 m below the surface is nearly ideal for the solution mining of large high-performance gas storage caverns.

At this stage it is anticipated that each salt cavern conservatively solution – mined to a depth of only 215 m and a diameter of only 80 m could contain 7.5 PJ of maximum working gas capacity, and a maximum withdrawal rate exceeding 500 terrajoules per day (TJ/d) from a single withdrawal well."

That's what they need to find. If there's salt in Queensland, there has to be salt in SA as well.

Point 1...there are developing a way to use nanotech to desalinate water using PVs at Rice University. They call it NEWT, I think. The whole idea is that instead of heating up the entire portion of water, the nanotech membrane only heats up the water that is moving past it and actually being used to create clean water. Reduces energy consumption by quite a lot.

Point 2 - SA will be at net zero in terms of energy consumption by 2030. It's why we're building a whole bunch of battery storage projects. 1 kg of hydrogen from electrolysis costs about 55 kW/h, and we'll have about 1 GW/h of electricity up our sleeve every year...so that's about 18 tonnes of hydrogen - incidentally was the amount in the Hidenburg. That would give us about 20 m3 of liquid hydrogen...and 20 m3 is around 158 tonnes of steel. Do the quenching in a hermetically sealed chamber and capture the hydrogen as it converts back into a gas, feeding it back into the salt cavern reservoir and condense it back into liquid hydrogen through cooling and increased pressure due to depth.

That’s my back of a napkin take on it. Use nature to our advantage instead of always working against it all the time.
 

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"THREE of the nation’s biggest resources billionaires – Gina Rinehart, Andrew Forrest and Sanjeev Gupta – are backing a new research hub to be built in Adelaide aimed at slashing carbon emissions to transform Australia into a “green” steel and iron giant.

It could put South Australia at the heart of the race to develop technological solutions to combat climate change.

Adelaide University, which is driving the bid to establish the hub, estimates the research would help Australia pivot to producing “green” materials that could create $48.7bn a year for the economy. It also predicts 92,000 new jobs could be created over the next decade by companies transitioning to low-carbon processes."


No mention of Sanjeev being a Port Power sponsor like when he is a bit slow paying his creditors.
 

RussellEbertHandball

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View attachment 1055394

"THREE of the nation’s biggest resources billionaires – Gina Rinehart, Andrew Forrest and Sanjeev Gupta – are backing a new research hub to be built in Adelaide aimed at slashing carbon emissions to transform Australia into a “green” steel and iron giant.

It could put South Australia at the heart of the race to develop technological solutions to combat climate change.

Adelaide University, which is driving the bid to establish the hub, estimates the research would help Australia pivot to producing “green” materials that could create $48.7bn a year for the economy. It also predicts 92,000 new jobs could be created over the next decade by companies transitioning to low-carbon processes."


No mention of Sanjeev being a Port Power sponsor like when he is a bit slow paying his creditors.
A Port Power sponsor, other one in partnership with a Port Power benefactor, third one employs a former Port Power executive and a well known Port Power supporter. Mention one, you gotta mention all three.
 

Steve Dore

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A Port Power sponsor, other one in partnership with a Port Power benefactor, third one employs a former Port Power executive and a well known Port Power supporter. Mention one, you gotta mention all three.
Not mentioned because it's a positive story.
 

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