Ghost train fire Sydney 1979

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zedx

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Easier to get in and out undetected when there are lots of other ppl around.
Lots of other potential suspects with so many people around.
No security cameras back then.
No smartphone cameras/video recorders in just about everyone's hand/bag for teenagers + back then
You do have a good some good points there, but IMO it was such a risk.
 

BFew

Norm Smith Medallist
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You do have a good some good points there, but IMO it was such a risk.
If they had been told, or thought they and those whose orders they were acting on, were to be protected from prosecution for that fire, it might have been a bearable risk.

Also, an after hours fire on the Ghost Train when it is not turned on is way harder to blame on mechanical issues that would require it running for a spark to ignite anything. And much more likely to be deliberately lit.
 

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BFew

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I dont believe Bikies started the fire. Easy to blame them.
Have you actually watched any or all of the 3 ABC TV EXPOSED: The Ghost Train Fire episodes, which first went to air in the last 3 weeks?
Over 4 hours of watching in total.

I'm guessing you haven't.

Edit: It's quite possible that the 5 ppl that looked like bikies, on/next to the Ghost Train Ride, were fake bikies just made and dressed up to look like bikies, and were there to make it look like some bikies started the fire.

 
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BFew

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There's a video of the NSW Premier speaking about this today embedded in the below titled
'Calls for inquiry into 1979 Luna Park Ghost Train fire'.

I can't imagine that the scope of any form of inquiry would extend to looking at Police or Government corruption relating to this.

Although a Royal Commission into the 1976-1986 NSW State Labor Neville Wran Government, might be tempting to boot up, or announce, at this point in the NSW State and Federal elections life cycle.

That would probably need to be a seperate inquiry.
And maybe only after investigations/prosecutions/appeals for lighting the fire, or ordering/commissioning the lighting of the fire at Luna Park in 1979, had concluded.

'3:23pm Apr 8, 2021

'Premier Gladys Berejiklian was today asked about the fresh evidence and whether she would support an inquest.
"I understand that relevant agencies in NSW are considering that," she replied.
Ms Berejiklian said it was always "really difficult" to decide what needed to be reopened.
"I know that if that was my family, I'd want that to happen," she said.
"That's why parts of the NSW government are considering our options there and if we can go down that path, we will. But I do want to confirm that we are giving it good consideration."'

'NSW Liberal Senator Andrew Bragg is also supportive of a fresh inquiry but said the form of it should be left to the state government.
"The fact that these families haven't had answers for 42 years really is an indictment on the justice system in NSW," he said.
Both Labor and the Greens back a special commission of inquiry into the fire.
In a statement, NSW Attorney General Mark Speakman said he was pleased the Commissioner for Police had committed to consider "new and compelling" evidence, and that the coroner had indicated she would carefully consider any application for a fresh inquest.
"In addition, the Attorney General has asked the Department of Communities and Justice for advice on any appropriate action," the statement said.
"Anyone, including the program makers, who has information about the fire at Luna Park should contact police as soon as possible.'
 

BFew

Norm Smith Medallist
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What i don't understand is if it was done on purpose why on earth would they do when the ride was operational (risking innocent lives)? and why when there were crowds of people around (risk being seen)? Would it not have been far simpler to have done it whilst the park was closed?
Easier to get in and out undetected when there are lots of other ppl around.
Lots of other potential suspects with so many people around.
No security cameras back then.
No smartphone cameras/video recorders in just about everyone's hand/bag for teenagers + back then
Also, an after hours fire on the Ghost Train when it is not turned on is way harder to blame on mechanical issues that would require it running for a spark to ignite anything. And much more likely to be deliberately lit.
Just to add 'electrical issues' to 'mechanical issues' in the above.

Going back to the heart of your why risk innocent lives question, and how they thought they could get away.

That might be explained if the whole thing being a planned operation, intended to cause multiple deaths, and with it to be publicly blamed on an accident, as part of a pre-planned operation. Along with the person or persons at Luna Park that lit the fire, or assisted the fire with deploying kerosene to fuel it, being told/assured before they committed their crimes that horrific night, that they would not be pursued, because there was a Police/Political fix to make sure of this. (Noting that the NSW Premier (1976-86) Wran was also the sole self-appointed Minister for Police 1976-1980 at the same time he was Premier.

And given how it now appears that in many circles, it was a pretty open secret in NSW at the time of how corrupt both much of NSW Police and the NSW Premier himself was, those that lit/aided the Ghost Train fire, might have well believed that they would get away with it. With the NSW Police being called off looking for them the day after the fire, because it was all only an 'accident', and thus there was no point in looking for them.

And at worst, if they were caught, they could try blaming it on a cigarette butt one of them carelessly disposed of inside the Ghost Train.
Or just say they didn't do it. That they just went for a fun ride on the Ghost Train.
 
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sprockets

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There's a video of the NSW Premier speaking about this today embedded in the below titled
'Calls for inquiry into 1979 Luna Park Ghost Train fire'.

I can't imagine that the scope of any form of inquiry would extend to looking at Police or Government corruption relating to this.

Although a Royal Commission into the 1976-1986 NSW State Labor Neville Wran Government, might be tempting to boot up, or announce, at this point in the NSW State and Federal elections life cycle.

That would probably need to be a seperate inquiry.
And maybe only after investigations/prosecutions/appeals for lighting the fire, or ordering/commissioning the lighting of the fire at Luna Park in 1979, had concluded.

'3:23pm Apr 8, 2021

'Premier Gladys Berejiklian was today asked about the fresh evidence and whether she would support an inquest.
"I understand that relevant agencies in NSW are considering that," she replied.
Ms Berejiklian said it was always "really difficult" to decide what needed to be reopened.
"I know that if that was my family, I'd want that to happen," she said.
"That's why parts of the NSW government are considering our options there and if we can go down that path, we will. But I do want to confirm that we are giving it good consideration."'

'NSW Liberal Senator Andrew Bragg is also supportive of a fresh inquiry but said the form of it should be left to the state government.
"The fact that these families haven't had answers for 42 years really is an indictment on the justice system in NSW," he said.
Both Labor and the Greens back a special commission of inquiry into the fire.
In a statement, NSW Attorney General Mark Speakman said he was pleased the Commissioner for Police had committed to consider "new and compelling" evidence, and that the coroner had indicated she would carefully consider any application for a fresh inquest.
"In addition, the Attorney General has asked the Department of Communities and Justice for advice on any appropriate action," the statement said.
"Anyone, including the program makers, who has information about the fire at Luna Park should contact police as soon as possible.'
NSW 'special commissions of inquiry' are where anyone can contact them with any information, whether it's true or false, and they treat it as true. I doubt anything will come of it, if it happens.
 

BFew

Norm Smith Medallist
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NSW 'special commissions of inquiry' are where anyone can contact them with any information, whether it's true or false, and they treat it as true. I doubt anything will come of it, if it happens.
Might just be a case of using something like some of the line's that Telstra used in their offical Claremont Serial Killer case apology, post conviction of their ex-employee Bradley Robert Edwards.


The events in question happened more than 20 years ago, which has made it difficult for us to locate information and understand why certain decisions were made at that time,”

“However, it is clear that we didn’t respond in the way we should have or would today.”
 

BFew

Norm Smith Medallist
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Ben Fordham (2GB radio) today interviewed the main presenter (Caro Meldrum-Hanna) of ABC's Exposed: The Ghost Train Fire recent 3 part series.
You can hear it in either the podcast or download of his radio show today from just after the 58 minute mark.


 

johnymac1

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Have you actually watched any or all of the 3 ABC TV EXPOSED: The Ghost Train Fire episodes, which first went to air in the last 3 weeks?
Over 4 hours of watching in total.

I'm guessing you haven't.

Edit: It's quite possible that the 5 ppl that looked like bikies, on/next to the Ghost Train Ride, were fake bikies just made and dressed up to look like bikies, and were there to make it look like some bikies started the fire.

They made some good points, and made it clear Abe had an interest in the Park. He and others clearly benefited by the disaster.

In the program, there is a possibility that the producer interviewed the arsonist without knowing. Naturally in his statements, he's going to deflect blame. “Yeah – Nah ..Ah yeah the Bikies did it!”

Hows the likely-hood of a contractor enlisted by Abe? Who looks a bit like a Bikie and takes along four Bikie mates along to commit a criminal act. Just for the fun of it, he takes two hippy chicks along for the the ride. Five of six potential witnesses not including the other ride goers.

Abe was a mobster, in real life he's likely to send out a trusty lieutenant with no witnesses !
 

BFew

Norm Smith Medallist
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In the program, there is a possibility that the producer interviewed the arsonist without knowing.

Hows the likely-hood of a contractor enlisted by Abe? Who looks a bit like a Bikie and takes along four Bikie mates along to commit a criminal act. Just for the fun of it, he takes two hippy chicks along for the the ride. Five of six potential witnesses not including the other ride goers.
To reinvestigate the fire on the basis, that it was not likely an accident, would start with looking at things like whether it was either
(a) an inside job by someone who worked there or used to work there, or who was assisted by someone who worked there or used to work there
(b) someone(s) who were on the ride and lit the fire from the moving ride car

They'd need to look at whether it was possible to pour kerosene (which may or may not have been involved) and light the fire and make an exit out of some side/backdoor to the Ghost Train without easily being seen by either people on the ride, or anyone else at Luna Park.

All of these 5 witnesses need to come forward, or the Police need to find them and get statements from them.
And interview everyone else that was at Luna Park that night, and ask for anyone else who has information they heard from people who were at Luna Park that night that might be useful (i.e people exiting out of any back/side doors to the Ghost Train ride that might have existed.

IMO, currently, there's just as much chance that Abe Saffron was/is the designated fall guy for getting blamed for the fire and was not the instigator of it,
as there is that all the alleged witnesses and way too over-confident "no doubt", 100% it was Abe behind it, are on the money.

Focusing on who might have been behind it, (i.e might have ordered it) at this stage, is going to be a huge distraction from the basic forensics of how the fire likely did and did not start, and who actually lit the fire. Because if you can nail them. tracing things back to who (if anyone) asked, ordered, requested, paid them to do it, is much easier. Particularly if all/most of the main ppl involved above them are now deceased.
 

BFew

Norm Smith Medallist
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Abe was a mobster, in real life he's likely to send out a trusty lieutenant with no witnesses !
As we know with mobsters (from watching the movies about them), not all trusty lieutenant's can be trusted all of the time.
And that there would have likely been other mobsters in the background, waiting to depose or take over from the King mobster.

Look what happened to one of Saffron's so called trusty lieutenant's. (James McCartney Anderson: "Big Jim"), who rolled over to the NCA and allegedly produced the key evidence (possibly fabricated) that got Abe Saffron jailed for tax offences.
 
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BFew

Norm Smith Medallist
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BFew

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'The NSW coroner will consider a new inquest into a fire at Sydney’s Luna Park in 1979 ...
Initial investigations pointed towards an electrical fault, but further inquiries proved non-conclusive.'


More like, initial investigations were (insert your own expletive). Investigations after unqualified and corrupt NSW police falsely claimed that it was an accident, showed that it was most unlikely that the ignition of the fire occurred because of an electrical fault.

'The cause of the fire cannot conclusively be stated.
It is clear that it commenced in or in the vicinity of a display representing an imitation fire.
Expert evidence has been given of examination of what was left of the electrical system, and of tests made after the fire.
It has been shown that it was most unlikely that the ignition occurred through electrical fault, the possibility of such a cause cannot be
completely excluded.
A statement made to police soon after the fire indicated that it had been deliberately started, that statement has been shown to be false and mischievous.'
 

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