Giant Clearance Sale - 2017

[SterlingArcher]

Nothing personal against you guys at all as you both seem like pretty reasonable posters but I do have some thoughts on this as to why I disagree with you a bit on this:

1. Marchbank and McKenna were coming off mandatory 2 year draftee deals, them leaving frees up no money as their salaries would have been replaced like for like with Setterfield and Perryman's wages etc.
2. Guys like Pickett Ahern and Stewart shouldn't have been on a lot wages wise (if GWS were doing their job properly which I think they were as they have a lot of sensible staff there) considering the fact they weren't established and their injury histories.
3. The only player you lost in the last trade period who would have freed up a lot of money would have been McCarthy as he signed his deal when he was best 22 and looking like a star.
4. If Patfull played on it would have been on a 1 year reduced wages like most over 30s so I doubt they would have budgeted a lot of money for him in the cap.

On the other side of it:
1. Deledio came in for 3 years at 500k approx.
2. Yes guys like Shiel Kelly and Patton will have signed for less than what other clubs would have offered them but they will still have signed with you for more money than what they last signed 2 years ago. And if the managers are smart they will have put bonus clauses in the contracts meaning those guys will get extra money if they trigger top 5 b & f results, AA selections etc, which a lot of them will now.
3. You won't have any more retirements this year except SJ who himself isn't likely to be on a lot of money anyway.

Now there is some uncertainty here as none of the clubs know what the cap figure for 2018 will be yet so we are all guessing a bit but I think it's reasonable to say you guys won't have freed up a lot of cap room, and therefore a best 2 player will probably have to go.

My only point I was making re Smith was that if you are looking at who might go is he is clearly less structurally important to you than guys like Patton and Shiel, and you have less of field need to keep him than local guys like Hopper and Kennedy who would be greater priorities to retain. He is a good player but given these factors and given the depth you have in small to medium forwards he is the obvious player to be sacrificed if a best 22 player needs to be.

Griffens contract status?

He'll be pushed out as soon as the Giants can do so I think. He's obviously experienced and has his strengths, but he's not that good compared to the caliber of players they might lose. A gun at his best but turns 31 and has had chronic niggles I believe? I can even see him bowing out of his own accord after a flag this year.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Griffens contract status?

He'll be pushed out as soon as the Giants can do so I think. He's obviously experienced and has his strengths, but he's not that good compared to the caliber of players they might lose. A gun at his best but turns 31 and has had chronic niggles I believe? I can even see him bowing out of his own accord after a flag this year.

I thought he joined them on a 4 year deal so I thought him and Shaw (who signed for 5 years) had until the end of 2018 but you would have to check with the GWS board on that.

 

[robbieando]

The salary cap going up by 20% this year and then 10% next year (then 3% each of of the next 3 years) under the new CBA would benefit the Giants in re-signing their players as well.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-03-07/exclusive-players-in-line-for-bumper-pay-rise

 

[Bokonon_]

Nothing personal against you guys at all as you both seem like pretty reasonable posters but I do have some thoughts on this as to why I disagree with you a bit on this:

1. Marchbank and McKenna were coming off mandatory 2 year draftee deals, them leaving frees up no money as their salaries would have been replaced like for like with Setterfield and Perryman's wages etc.
2. Guys like Pickett Ahern and Stewart shouldn't have been on a lot wages wise (if GWS were doing their job properly which I think they were as they have a lot of sensible staff there) considering the fact they weren't established and their injury histories.
3. The only player you lost in the last trade period who would have freed up a lot of money would have been McCarthy as he signed his deal when he was best 22 and looking like a star.
4. If Patfull played on it would have been on a 1 year reduced wages like most over 30s so I doubt they would have budgeted a lot of money for him in the cap.

On the other side of it:
1. Deledio came in for 3 years at 500k approx.
2. Yes guys like Shiel Kelly and Patton will have signed for less than what other clubs would have offered them but they will still have signed with you for more money than what they last signed 2 years ago. And if the managers are smart they will have put bonus clauses in the contracts meaning those guys will get extra money if they trigger top 5 b & f results, AA selections etc, which a lot of them will now.
3. You won't have any more retirements this year except SJ who himself isn't likely to be on a lot of money anyway.

Now there is some uncertainty here as none of the clubs know what the cap figure for 2018 will be yet so we are all guessing a bit but I think it's reasonable to say you guys won't have freed up a lot of cap room, and therefore a best 2 player will probably have to go.

My only point I was making re Smith was that if you are looking at who might go is he is clearly less structurally important to you than guys like Patton and Shiel, and you have less of field need to keep him than local guys like Hopper and Kennedy who would be greater priorities to retain. He is a good player but given these factors and given the depth you have in small to medium forwards he is the obvious player to be sacrificed if a best 22 player needs to be.

It's all discussion and opinion, I think he's most likely and the bean counters looking after cap compliance would be a bit relieved no doubt.
I think you overlooked Palmer though. The only reason he would have traded out for pick in the seventies would have been to lose his salary. We've lost Phil Scully's salary from the cap when Tom resigned on less last year. Richmond are also reported.as paying half of Deledio's salary for 2 years.
I hope we're not offerring Shiel peanuts whether he'd take it or not. It's not fair to him. Any offer would be more than the $550- $600k je signed for last time.
I dont think the cap is the main issue, Devon's wishes are.
.

 

[dlanod]

Nothing personal against you guys at all as you both seem like pretty reasonable posters but I do have some thoughts on this as to why I disagree with you a bit on this:

1. Marchbank and McKenna were coming off mandatory 2 year draftee deals, them leaving frees up no money as their salaries would have been replaced like for like with Setterfield and Perryman's wages etc.
2. Guys like Pickett Ahern and Stewart shouldn't have been on a lot wages wise (if GWS were doing their job properly which I think they were as they have a lot of sensible staff there) considering the fact they weren't established and their injury histories.

On these couple of points, Marchbank and the likes would have been budgeted in for new contacts in 2017 and 2018 if they wanted to stay. So even though they never got off their draftee contract, their departure freed up future cap space as every club plans at least one or two years in the future with cap space.

 

[Giant Strides]

Griffens contract status?

He'll be pushed out as soon as the Giants can do so I think. He's obviously experienced and has his strengths, but he's not that good compared to the caliber of players they might lose. A gun at his best but turns 31 and has had chronic niggles I believe? I can even see him bowing out of his own accord after a flag this year.

I thought he joined them on a 4 year deal so I thought him and Shaw (who signed for 5 years) had until the end of 2018 but you would have to check with the GWS board on that.

Yes, both are contracted to 2018. I would have similar thoughts on Griffen, although I don't think GWS will push him. He came in to give Ward a hand as a second mature-bodied mid, in which role he has been hampered by niggling injuries (which were known and undoubtedly accepted as a risk) and when on the field has been useful rather than great. However, don't discount the value that his experience and maturity has provided to the team and the developing youngsters, nor the value that Leon Cameron puts on his place in the team. I would think he'd be content to retire at the end of his contract - which should see youngsters such as Kelly, Hopper & Matt Kennedy coming into their own - and I've had my own thoughts that he might elect to retire early if GWS won a flag in 2017 - but that probably depends on what happens with his 2018 salary in respect of the TPP.

Overall, we're hampered in the discussion by needing to make assumptions regarding who is on what, with the impending salary cap rise a factor that could assist to retain players. In respect of Dev Smith, I think the two sides of possible options have been clearly put forward. While not wanting to lose him, I would think that we would receive reasonable trade value for him (not the third round pick one Geelong poster put forward on one thread!) and it would both spread the list age as well as allow younger players to get first grade experience. Salary cap is an aspect of the whole situation, but I think it can be overplayed a touch.

 

[coniglio_number1]

They couldn't have been in 2016 as they would still have been on the mandatory 2 year draftee wage. They may have been in 17/18 though. 300k is not a lot though if you look at the current CBA that's basically about where the median wage sits, so most depth/fringe players at most clubs would be on 200-300k currently. It's really only once you talk about players on 400+ k (for example with us Caddy was in this wage band, guys like Kersten were on less) that you are really freeing up substantial cap space.

They extended the contracts and were 300k for year 3

 

[Pure_Ownage]

It's all discussion and opinion, I think he's most likely and the bean counters looking after cap compliance would be a bit relieved no doubt.
I think you overlooked Palmer though. The only reason he would have traded out for pick in the seventies would have been to lose his salary. We've lost Phil Scully's salary from the cap when Tom resigned on less last year. Richmond are also reported.as paying half of Deledio's salary for 2 years.
I hope we're not offerring Shiel peanuts whether he'd take it or not. It's not fair to him. Any offer would be more than the $550- $600k je signed for last time.
I dont think the cap is the main issue, Devon's wishes are.
.

True I did forget Palmer and the pick 100 or whatever he was traded for, it would be interesting to know what salary he was on.

I wouldn't worry about you lowballing Shiel they wouldn't be that silly, although you may find if they have an idea set in their head of which players they really want to retain that they offer them money first and then offer the last one or two whatever is left over and effectively try and lowball them into leaving rather than wait until it's late in the year and they have less control over who stays and who goes.

Regardless I agree whether Smith or anyone else really wants to leave is a bigger issue than the actual cap numbers.

On these couple of points, Marchbank and the likes would have been budgeted in for new contacts in 2017 and 2018 if they wanted to stay. So even though they never got off their draftee contract, their departure freed up future cap space as every club plans at least one or two years in the future with cap space.

That is true, I was just pointing out it doesn't free up any current cap at all, for example it frees up future cap if GWS expected Marchbank to go anyway in which case whatever money they had planned to allocate to him they could give to someone else, but it didn't free up any money in 2016.

Yes, both are contracted to 2018. I would have similar thoughts on Griffen, although I don't think GWS will push him. He came in to give Ward a hand as a second mature-bodied mid, in which role he has been hampered by niggling injuries (which were known and undoubtedly accepted as a risk) and when on the field has been useful rather than great. However, don't discount the value that his experience and maturity has provided to the team and the developing youngsters, nor the value that Leon Cameron puts on his place in the team. I would think he'd be content to retire at the end of his contract - which should see youngsters such as Kelly, Hopper & Matt Kennedy coming into their own - and I've had my own thoughts that he might elect to retire early if GWS won a flag in 2017 - but that probably depends on what happens with his 2018 salary in respect of the TPP.

Overall, we're hampered in the discussion by needing to make assumptions regarding who is on what, with the impending salary cap rise a factor that could assist to retain players. In respect of Dev Smith, I think the two sides of possible options have been clearly put forward. While not wanting to lose him, I would think that we would receive reasonable trade value for him (not the third round pick one Geelong poster put forward on one thread!) and it would both spread the list age as well as allow younger players to get first grade experience. Salary cap is an aspect of the whole situation, but I think it can be overplayed a touch.

Agree with that, I think as no club knows what next year's cap will be yet it makes those things harder to predict that normal. I haven't seen who exactly suggested Smith for a third rounder but I would suggest they are being silly. I think you will find if he does go wherever he goes you will get well compensated with a top 15 pick (either you will get an actual top 15 pick from a club or you will get a couple of picks that have the same points value in total, either way you will get a good return) and you will get cap space freed up to keep players that are more important to retain.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

They extended the contracts and were 300k for year 3

Thanks for that I wasn't aware of this-it probably explains why they were prepared to dump Ahern and Pickett for a relative trade pittance (compared to Marchbank etc) in order to get that money off the books.

 

[coniglio_number1]

Thanks for that I wasn't aware of this-it probably explains why they were prepared to dump Ahern and Pickett for a relative trade pittance (compared to Marchbank etc) in order to get that money off the books.

It's what we have to pay to keep zero gamers in northern clubs. Hence the mass depth cleanout ahead of schedule

 

[Bokonon_]

Yes, both are contracted to 2018. I would have similar thoughts on Griffen, although I don't think GWS will push him. He came in to give Ward a hand as a second mature-bodied mid, in which role he has been hampered by niggling injuries (which were known and undoubtedly accepted as a risk) and when on the field has been useful rather than great. However, don't discount the value that his experience and maturity has provided to the team and the developing youngsters, nor the value that Leon Cameron puts on his place in the team. I would think he'd be content to retire at the end of his contract - which should see youngsters such as Kelly, Hopper & Matt Kennedy coming into their own - and I've had my own thoughts that he might elect to retire early if GWS won a flag in 2017 - but that probably depends on what happens with his 2018 salary in respect of the TPP.

Overall, we're hampered in the discussion by needing to make assumptions regarding who is on what, with the impending salary cap rise a factor that could assist to retain players. In respect of Dev Smith, I think the two sides of possible options have been clearly put forward. While not wanting to lose him, I would think that we would receive reasonable trade value for him (not the third round pick one Geelong poster put forward on one thread!) and it would both spread the list age as well as allow younger players to get first grade experience. Salary cap is an aspect of the whole situation, but I think it can be overplayed a touch.

Kudos
Post to your usual standard

 

[schmuttt]

Whilst I reckon Josh Kelly will stay, if he hasn't signed up by mid year I think he'd be looking at how a few Vic clubs are travelling and considering his options.

 

[coniglio_number1]

Whilst I reckon Josh Kelly will stay, if he hasn't signed up by mid year I think he'd be looking at how a few Vic clubs are travelling and considering his options.

You could say that about almost every single player in the league that is coming out of contract

 

[Determinant]

You could say that about almost every single player in the league that is coming out of contract

Except Zac Dawson, that would just mean he and Lyon have broken up

 

[Colonial]

http://m.gwsgiants.com.au/news/2017-03-14/finlayson-extends?camefrom=EMCL_1531042_59527486

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

 

[Orange Agent]

Nothing personal against you guys at all as you both seem like pretty reasonable posters but I do have some thoughts on this as to why I disagree with you a bit on this:

1. Marchbank and McKenna were coming off mandatory 2 year draftee deals, them leaving frees up no money as their salaries would have been replaced like for like with Setterfield and Perryman's wages etc.
2. Guys like Pickett Ahern and Stewart shouldn't have been on a lot wages wise (if GWS were doing their job properly which I think they were as they have a lot of sensible staff there) considering the fact they weren't established and their injury histories.
3. The only player you lost in the last trade period who would have freed up a lot of money would have been McCarthy as he signed his deal when he was best 22 and looking like a star.
4. If Patfull played on it would have been on a 1 year reduced wages like most over 30s so I doubt they would have budgeted a lot of money for him in the cap.

On the other side of it:
1. Deledio came in for 3 years at 500k approx.
2. Yes guys like Shiel Kelly and Patton will have signed for less than what other clubs would have offered them but they will still have signed with you for more money than what they last signed 2 years ago. And if the managers are smart they will have put bonus clauses in the contracts meaning those guys will get extra money if they trigger top 5 b & f results, AA selections etc, which a lot of them will now.
3. You won't have any more retirements this year except SJ who himself isn't likely to be on a lot of money anyway.

Now there is some uncertainty here as none of the clubs know what the cap figure for 2018 will be yet so we are all guessing a bit but I think it's reasonable to say you guys won't have freed up a lot of cap room, and therefore a best 2 player will probably have to go.

My only point I was making re Smith was that if you are looking at who might go is he is clearly less structurally important to you than guys like Patton and Shiel, and you have less of field need to keep him than local guys like Hopper and Kennedy who would be greater priorities to retain. He is a good player but given these factors and given the depth you have in small to medium forwards he is the obvious player to be sacrificed if a best 22 player needs to be.

Hoskin-Eliott was supposedly on somewhere near $400k.

 

[coniglio_number1]

Hoskin-Eliott was supposedly on somewhere near $400k.

Doesn't surprise me as he Re-signed when he looked to be on the verge of exploding.

 

[Malifice]

Surprisingly little talk of Shiel in this thread.

I'd be happy throwing down 4 million plus for 5 years to get him home. Heck I'd dangle 4 and a half million with 1 mill in his first year.

I'd hazard a guess the offer in front of him from GWS is in the ballpark of just under 2 million for 3 years, taking him up to FA.

Our 2018 1st (probably pick 1-4) for Shiel and GWSs 2018 2nd rounder (pick 30 plus) sounds about right.

 

[Colonial]

Surprisingly little talk of Shiel in this thread.

I'd be happy throwing down 4 million plus for 5 years to get him home. Heck I'd dangle 4 and a half million with 1 mill in his first year.

Our 2018 1st (probably pick 1-4) for Shiel and GWSs 2018 2nd rounder (pick 30 plus) sounds about right.

A 1st and you get Shiel and a 2nd rounder?

Dont think itll get it done.

We got 2 1st rounders for Treloar.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

 

[Malifice]

A 1st and you get Shiel and a 2nd rounder?

Dont think itll get it done.

We got 2 1st rounders for Treloar.

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Dude the round of the pick isnt really relevant. Pick 1 and 18 are 1st round picks but they ain't even close in value. Same deal with picks 19 and 36.

Our 1st next year is a (likely) top 4 pick. Your second next year is likely pick 36 plus (assuming a top 4 finish and a FA compo pick between the 1st and 2nd rounds, and a mandatory Academy pick or three plus a father/son in the top 35).

Pick 3-5 for Shiel and 35-40 is pretty ball park particularly seeing as we have a good trade relationship and likely PSD pick 1 (not that the latter matters that much). Maybe a swap of later picks in your favor.

Let's you win the flag in 18 and then take 2 firsts to the draft (including a top 5 pick).

 

[JG22]

Lachie Whitfield now

 

[Bokonon_]

Dude the round of the pick isnt really relevant. Pick 1 and 18 are 1st round picks but they ain't even close in value. Same deal with picks 19 and 36.

Our 1st next year is a (likely) top 4 pick. Your second next year is likely pick 36 plus (assuming a top 4 finish and a FA compo pick between the 1st and 2nd rounds, and a mandatory Academy pick or three plus a father/son in the top 35).

Pick 3-5 for Shiel and 35-40 is pretty ball park particularly seeing as we have a good trade relationship and likely PSD pick 1 (not that the latter matters that much). Maybe a swap of later picks in your favor.

Let's you win the flag in 18 and then take 2 firsts to the draft (including a top 5 pick).

We're all assuming Dylan will stay. Fingers crossed, and I hope we'll dig deep to pay him what he's worth. He's said he's not really interested in entertaining offers..
I get he's a desirable player other clubs would want. I've said before though I think he's a special case. It's very obvious the kids at Spotless idolise Jeremy and him. We're a new club trying to build support and I think he's important from a marketing point of view to us as we try to grow our support base.
Footy's a cold hard business and anythings possible, but if you think we fought hard to keep Cam, I think you'd see a new level to kèep him.

 

[Malifice]

We're all assuming Dylan will stay. Fingers crossed, and I hope we'll dig deep to pay him what he's worth. He's said he's not really interested in entertaining offers..
I get he's a desirable player other clubs would want. I've said before though I think he's a special case. It's very obvious the kids at Spotless idolise Jeremy and him. We're a new club trying to build support and I think he's important from a marketing point of view to us as we try to grow our support base.
Footy's a cold hard business and anythings possible, but if you think we fought hard to keep Cam, I think you'd see a new level to kèep him.

My gut tells me you will have a deal on the table for around about 1.8 mill for three years. Probably front loaded slightly, taking advantage of the 20% increase in the salary cap in 2018. A 700/ 550/ 550 split.

A three year deal will take Dylan up till his free agency window, and give him three years to try and snare a flag with your team.

I'd be happy to offer him a five-year deal in excess of 4 million. A split of 1.2 million in 2018, 800k in 2019, then 650-700k per year for the rest. That's a pretty lucrative deal to return home to Melbourne and play for the club you grew up supporting. He would also give a massive share of sponsorship, media and advertising back in Melbourne.

It's overs but we have a crap ton of money to spend. Dale Thomas's huge contract comes to an end, Liam Jones will be delisted, Dennis Armfield will retire, we're not really paying anyone that much money at present, and the salary cap increases by 20% next year. It's been reported that we have a bucket load of money to attract a free agent or a lucrative trade this year.

Add into that will also have a spare million if Bryce Gibbs leaves for Adelaide and Matthew Kruezer leaves as a free agent. Both of which are very likely to happen. Kade Simpson is 33 and he can't keep going on for ever either.

He's exactly the kind of player that we need, and is in the right age bracket for us.

 

[Bokonon_]

My gut tells me you will have a deal on the table for around about 1.8 mill for three years. Probably front loaded slightly, taking advantage of the 20% increase in the salary cap in 2018. A 700/ 550/ 550 split.

A three year deal will take Dylan up till his free agency window, and give him three years to try and snare a flag with your team.

I'd be happy to offer him a five-year deal in excess of 4 million. A split of 1.2 million in 2018, 800k in 2019, then 650-700k per year for the rest. That's a pretty lucrative deal to return home to Melbourne and play for the club you grew up supporting. He would also give a massive share of sponsorship, media and advertising back in Melbourne.

It's overs but we have a crap ton of money to spend. Dale Thomas's huge contract comes to an end, Liam Jones will be delisted, Dennis Armfield will retire, we're not really paying anyone that much money at present, and the salary cap increases by 20% next year. It's been reported that we have a bucket load of money to attract a free agent or a lucrative trade this year.

Add into that will also have a spare million if Bryce Gibbs leaves for Adelaide and Matthew Kruezer leaves as a free agent. Both of which are very likely to happen. Kade Simpson is 33 and he can't keep going on for ever either.

He's exactly the kind of player that we need, and is in the right age bracket for us.

Mmmm
I dont know what he's on all we know for sure is when he signed in 2015 the club said it was similar to the deal offerred Treloar and Cogs. I though $500- $550kbut @Dianod suggested around $600k and I've learned to listen to his view. My assumption is the next deal would be more and posiibly the long term lock away type the Scully and Ward got.
I still think we dig deep even though it could mean someone like Devon, or shudder, even Kelly could go.
I get Carlton may have more money to offer, I hope there's an intertia to stay that will make the difference.

A Melbourne club would offer more recognition as well, we offer anonymity and a lifestyle with more privacy. I think that's significant for at least some players. I dont doubt money played a factor in Treloar leaving, but I think stardom was relevant too.

Bottom line I think we would dig deeper than you estimate. I worry about our guys if and when we win a fkag as they might feel the job is done and it's time to look after numero uno.
If he did decide to go It'd hurt but it's his call with his contract up.

 

[Malifice]

Mmmm
I dont know what he's on all we know for sure is when he signed in 2015 the club said it was similar to the deal offerred Treloar and Cogs. I though $500- $550kbut @Dianod suggested around $600k and I've learned to listen to his view. My assumption is the next deal would be more and posiibly the long term lock away type the Scully and Ward got.
I still think we dig deep even though it could mean someone like Devon, or shudder, even Kelly could go.
I get Carlton may have more money to offer, I hope there's an intertia to stay that will make the difference.

A Melbourne club would offer more recognition as well, we offer anonymity and a lifestyle with more privacy. I think that's significant for at least some players. I dont doubt money played a factor in Treloar leaving, but I think stardom was relevant too.

Bottom line I think we would dig deeper than you estimate. I worry about our guys if and when we win a fkag as they might feel the job is done and it's time to look after numero uno.
If he did decide to go It'd hurt but it's his call with his contract up.

It will be a three-year deal which will take him up to his eight year free agency window.

I honestly can't see how your club can afford more than around 2 million over that contract length, and even that is pushing it pretty heavily. Cameron, Patton, Ward, Scully, Griffen, Greene, Coniglio etc can't be on small dollars. Heck even Heath Shaw and Deledio probably take up over 700,000 between them.

Carlton are easily in a position to offer at least 30% more than whatever your deal is going to be, and to frontload that deal extremely heavily (putting an extra 500,000 in his pocket next year alone). The only question he has to ask himself is does he want to stick around in Sydney for three years on the lower salary in the hope of making a flag and then reassess when his eight years is up and he could entertain free agency, or take the higher money now (setting himself up better in the future when he retires) and move back to Melbourne and hope Carlton improves in 3 to 4 years time.