Analysis Giants captaincy - where to from here?

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captainMyCaptain

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 30, 2011
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Cogs says he loves the club, community , region and how its building. Has a long term contract and is Captain(last week showed why he is and Tobes(I love him) isn’t.
Media “ he may want to move.”
Cogs should not be the stand alone captain as long as injuries are a regular problem and gives the impression he struggles with the role at times.
So if his not willing to share the role then we should have co-captains of Kelly and Greene.
 

General Giant

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Apr 12, 2012
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Cogs should not be the stand alone captain as long as injuries are a regular problem and gives the impression he struggles with the role at times.
So if his not willing to share the role then we should have co-captains of Kelly and Greene.
Don’t see how we can have Greene as a captain when he spends so much time in trouble, fair or not.
 

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ClockworkOrange

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Jan 30, 2016
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IMO the question for the club is whether to return to co-Captains.

After that, I believe it should be over to the players to vote in a secret ballot for their preferred co-Captains.

I’d back in the playing group to make that call.

I’d also back in McCartney to conduct the ballot, as he had no role in the prior Captaincy dramas.


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bossman111

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Part of me thinks if he was captain he wouldn't have done it and concentrating more on how to get the boys going at 3QT? Seems with Cogs there he went back to being a complete madman, you could tell that in the 3rd quarter. Haven't seen him fire up like that since the 2019 Finals.

I mean that is no reason to reward him with captaincy but its an interesting dynamic. He has been playing with relative restraint when he has been the skipper this year
 

ClockworkOrange

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. I mean that is no reason to reward him with captaincy but its an interesting dynamic. He has been playing with relative restraint when he has been the skipper this year
To play devils advocate, are you certain the Captaincy is a total reward? Or is is a double-edged sword?

You don’t get one extra dollar of pay, but you do get more media commitments and responsibility.

You tend to think about your actions more if you have to front media and sponsor commitments every week.

You also get even more scrutiny as Cogs can attest.

Think about Warne in cricket. I know he was denied the Australian captaincy. However, he’s matured as a one-day club (as opposed to national) Captain and Coach.

As the saying goes, ‘heavy is the head that wears the crown’.




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Land of the Giants

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Sep 6, 2012
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Personally think there are question marks on both Cogs and Green and neither are completely ideal
One of the qualities of a good team captain is they always put the team first, and aren't interested in personal glory.

This is where Coniglio gave himself a problem by rejecting the co-captaincy in favour of himself. It compromised his ability to develop effective relationships with other members of the team and probably some of the coaching staff as well.

Another quality needed in a good captain is the ability to lead by example and model the kind of behaviours needed for team success. This is where Toby has a problem. While his competitiveness on the field inspires, he walks a fine line in the way he treats opponents and the umpires, and too often crosses over it.

Ward was the ideal captain - selfless behaviour, always within the rules and spirit of the game.
 

Pres

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One of the qualities of a good team captain is they always put the team first, and aren't interested in personal glory.

This is where Coniglio gave himself a problem by rejecting the co-captaincy in favour of himself. It compromised his ability to develop effective relationships with other members of the team and probably some of the coaching staff as well.

Another quality needed in a good captain is the ability to lead by example and model the kind of behaviours needed for team success. This is where Toby has a problem. While his competitiveness on the field inspires, he walks a fine line in the way he treats opponents and the umpires, and too often crosses over it.

Ward was the ideal captain - selfless behaviour, always within the rules and spirit of the game.
Could not agree more.

Some would say that the Ward/Davis co-captain thing was actually a half decent idea. Particularly as the team made a GF in the last year of it's existence!!!!
 

Ichabod Noodle

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One of the qualities of a good team captain is they always put the team first, and aren't interested in personal glory.
Cogs ruled himself out of a grand final because he put team above personal glory.

something Phil didn’t do.

Cogs has always been team first, personal glory second.
 

captainMyCaptain

Norm Smith Medallist
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If the club wants to back Cogs in it would properly help his cause if Emma Quayle did a piece on Cogs talking about leadership. Discussing why he thought he would rather be a stand alone captain and if thats still how he sees it and how he views his leadership at the giants in the future.
 

Danny88

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Mar 21, 2014
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If the club wants to back Cogs in it would properly help his cause if Emma Quayle did a piece on Cogs talking about leadership. Discussing why he thought he would rather be a stand alone captain and if thats still how he sees it and how he views his leadership at the giants in the future.
I think it’s a bit of a moot point isn’t it? If he does a BAD job the club would t let him continue

So we can assume the club is happy with how he goes about it.

And internally there has been plenty of evidence the club correctly looks to senior players to be leaders in their own right rather than a dictatorial position by cogs
 

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GWS Goose

Norm Smith Medallist
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If the club wants to back Cogs in it would properly help his cause if Emma Quayle did a piece on Cogs talking about leadership. Discussing why he thought he would rather be a stand alone captain and if thats still how he sees it and how he views his leadership at the giants in the future.
It should be remembered when he didnt want to be co-captain, he didn't stop the other guy from being captain, he elected not to be captain himself.

Ward and Davis were again co-captains.

it was the following year that he became sole captain.

It does change the narrative a lot.
 

GWS Goose

Norm Smith Medallist
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That's just the problem - it was all about him.
You seem to be very anti cogs.

he didnt demand to be sole captain, he declined to be co-captain. That is differet.

That is reasonable.

This damage is done business is also being shown to be untrue. They made a GF the year he declined the co-captaincy. he declined to play,

We had a bad year last year and didnt handle the Covid influenced season. That isn't all cogs fault.

This year we have bounced back through all manner of adversity.
 

Hendo_21

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You seem to be very anti cogs.

he didnt demand to be sole captain, he declined to be co-captain. That is differet.

That is reasonable.

This damage is done business is also being shown to be untrue. They made a GF the year he declined the co-captaincy. he declined to play,

We had a bad year last year and didnt handle the Covid influenced season. That isn't all cogs fault.

This year we have bounced back through all manner of adversity.
Also Cogs looked really good at the start of the year before being de-railed by injuries, this teams expectations should be to make a run at the top 4 next year and I think they can do it.
 

ClockworkOrange

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Jan 30, 2016
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IMO any criticism of either Cogs or Phil around the 2019 GF is misplaced and unfair.

The reality is that we entered the 19 GF cooked by an epic finals run, and just ridiculous bad luck (eg, Lachie’s appendicitis).

Re Phil playing, he had done so week after week to get us to the GF so he was trying to continue what had helped us to that point.

Re Cogs, he’d missed many weeks prior to the GF so it was a different situation vis-a-vis Phil.

And on the day of the GF, I think the reality was that both playing or both not playing would not have changed the result.

Being murdered by the umps in the first half did not help the cause either, but again I think the Tigers run in Q3 and Q4 would probably still have mown us down regardless.


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ClockworkOrange

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Jan 30, 2016
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Apparently the Giants captaincy will be decided in the VFL HQ media unit.

The VFL media campaign against the club continues.
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