Analysis Giants Coaching. Your thoughts.

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ClockworkOrange

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We could not afford a payout and to bring in a $2mill a year coaching contract. The soft cap would already be maxxed due to the number of our rookies playing seniors. I'd rather see a better credentialed right hand man to help out.
Leon’s contract can be terminated at any time with a max 6 month payout.

So, if - big if - the club wants to change coach for 2022 it can do so.

I agree Clarko could be payed more elsewhere, but I expect his motivation for coaching on - as opposed to retiring or doing media - would be football success not money.

Re ‘prefer a better credentialed RH man’, that’s a reasonable view.

There is another possible scenario that may personally suit Clarkson.

Perhaps in 2022 he chooses to be a Consultant / ‘Director of Football’ rather than a HC.

This may suit he and his family better.

He’d probably sort out the Kelly and Hopper contracts in about 10 minutes, and then have fun deciding who we take with our two Top 10 draft picks.

Overall, I think this is a truly unique situation and anything is possible.


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ClockworkOrange

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IMO, there are two things we need after two years of disaster in 2020 and 2021.

1. We need a HC who can get our Top 8 list into Finals.

2. We need a CEO who can deliver us point 1, plus 11 home games at MO and GS.

Time for the Board to step up.

We need the Chair Shepherd to come out of witness protection and tell members WTF the plan is for 2022.

Is the Board renewing the CEO and/or HC, or sacking them?

The Club would be insane to expect Members to donate their memberships for a second consecutive year without the courtesy of the most basic of explanation of what’s going on.

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General Giant

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IMO, there are two things we need after two years of disaster in 2020 and 2021.

1. We need a HC who can get our Top 8 list into Finals.
I don’t blame Leon for this loss, but, he has had 8 years with this club and no flag. It’s time to change.

2. We need a CEO who can deliver us point 1, plus 11 home games at MO and GS.
I am frustrated with Matthews as one of many that doesn’t have to answer to members/fans and has no repercussions for making mistakes.
But
The lack of games at the Canberra is not on him. It was an AFL decision in consultation with the Vic government.

Time for the Board to step up.
Board is there for community, which they are doing a bang up job, would love more locals to ditch their old club and jump on board (don’t know why Tassie thinks it’s an easy layup to convert), but overall our grassroots and community programs seem to be going well.

We struggle in the footy side of things though.

And once again there is no repercussions for issues or problems. They don’t have to answer to anyone.
Fans and members don’t seem to have any power besides walking away(which I won’t do) and that’s the exact opposite of what we want as a club.

We need the Chair Shepherd to come out of witness protection and tell members WTF the plan is for 2022.
Haven’t heard or seen Shepherd for months if not a year.


Is the Board renewing the CEO and/or HC, or sacking them?
They wont sack Leon. Maybe they won’t re-sign Matthews.

The Club would be insane to expect Members to donate their memberships for a second consecutive year without the courtesy of the most basic of explanation of what’s going on.
But they will and allot will and good on them. But we need to see more than just the rosy good news pieces we get from time to time.
Love this club but geez.
 
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ClockworkOrange

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Board Members, Sponsors and Coterie Groups all bring individual passion and significant personal $$$ to the club that directly impacts the football dept budget.

I expect those who have made significant multi-year $$$ commitments will scale back in 2022 after two years of serious disappointment.

There’s also the very real possibility that the virus situation in 2022 may not be a lot better than 2020 or 2021.

The rise of the Swans is also very poorly timed for Giants HQ.

The Board does approve all management hires, so while I agree inertia often prevails the commercial pressures may force change that may not occur during ‘normal’ circumstances.

It may be a bigger month ahead for the club off the field than on.

Time will tell.


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General Giant

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Board Members, Sponsors and Coterie Groups all bring individual passion and significant personal $$$ to the club that directly impacts the football dept budget.

I expect those who have made significant multi-year $$$ commitments will scale back in 2022 after two years of serious disappointment.

There’s also the very real possibility that the virus situation in 2022 may not be a lot better than 2020 or 2021.

The rise of the Swans is also very poorly timed for Giants HQ.

The Board does approve all management hires, so while I agree inertia often prevails the commercial pressures may force change that may not occur during ‘normal’ circumstances.

It may be a bigger month ahead for the club off the field than on.

Time will tell.


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I don’t think they’ll scale back at all. There is no reason to suggest they will. We still have a massive future.
We have a lot of talented youth, that if handled right and can be kept, means we can rebound back into contention fairly quickly.
 

Land of the Giants

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PMBangers

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Honestly if we're actively looking for a coach I'd consider a couple of current assistants that are highly rated. Don Pyke has the experience as a senior coach for the Crows, honestly what happened there is hard to directly blame on him, he got them to a grand final in 2017 with a list that was pretty similar quality to ours. Adam Yze has done the clarko apprenticeship as well which is so highly saught after, his move to Melbourne has coincided with their rapid rise this year as well
 

Danny88

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IMO so much of this thread hasn't really lived in the realmes of reality. Talk of Clarkson coming here is just baseless chatter and as much as people might see him as the saviour... its a fantasy IMO. Even the idea that LC could get sacked this year is a bit farcicle considering the significant cuts to the soft cap... and the fact that BIG clubs are also on the hunt. So in place of that.... can we talk about the GWS game plan?

Its based on contested ball and winning clearances.This is largely a reflection of the players we have on the list. We are trying tp play to out strengths. When the midfield is on top we win games.. but tell me a team in the league that this ISNT the case for. We were exposed in 2019 and again last night by forward half turnovers. Its an element of the game we just have not moved significantly in while the top teams have. We also lack pace. Players like Daniels stand out for use largely because his compatriots are so slow. Our strength is clearly the DEF side of our game... we turn games into an arm wrestle and the DEF structures are really strong. We survive a huge number of I50's each week. I think with the current list the 2022 game plan will largely be similar... I can only really see a change if we move on a slower contested type like TT. FWIW I really think we need Kelly and I love Hopper. But without some pace and speed through that midfield rotation... we keep needing to turn games into a scrum. It reminicent of the swans for the last decade. It worked for them but gee it was unattractive.

Some big calls need to be made. Not so much on the coaching front but maybe with the personell we rely on each week. And certainly on the game plan
 

ClockworkOrange

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One practical issue the Board should be focused on is that there are 8 current AFL coaches out of contract by the end of next year.

I’m not suggesting all will change coach, but half or more may do so.

If - big if - the Board now accepts it needs to make a change it should logically get ahead of that wave.

Otherwise, we’ll be at risk of taking coaching ‘leftovers’.


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Orange crush

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Break away speed n the middle is necessary .... despite butchering it a fair bit it was the speed of shiel and treloar that made us attractive to watch.

if we lose hopper or Kelly Well have 3 top 10 picks .... if we don’t then 2.

we need a yoUng kpd and a running mid.

I think hogan finally gives us a real full forward ... something we’ve never had. But if we get a 3rd pick we could look to trade for a gun small defensive forward .... need extra pressure
 

ClockworkOrange

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Even the idea that LC could get sacked this year is a bit farcicle considering the significant cuts to the soft cap... and the fact that BIG clubs are also on the hunt.
I can accept the idea that there’s a case for extending Leon or allowing his contract to expire at end-2022.

I disagree with both, but accept it’s a real option.

However, to say that the soft cap is an insurmountable obstacle to Leon being sacked today is 100 per cent incorrect.

Caro’s article detailing Leon’s contract earlier in this thread makes that point clear.

If you want to get right to the very detail of Leon’s contract with it’s 6 mth termination clause what that really means is he’ll either be sacked in August 2021 or run to expiry in Aug/Sep 2022.

So this is a very real topic for the next few weeks.



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Danny88

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I can accept the idea that there’s a case for extending Leon or allowing his contract to expire at end-2022.

I disagree with both, but accept it’s a real option.

However, to say that the soft cap is an insurmountable obstacle to Leon being sacked today is 100 per cent incorrect.

Caro’s article detailing Leon’s contract earlier in this thread makes that point clear.

If you want to get right to the very detail of Leon’s contract with it’s 6 mth termination clause what that really means is he’ll either be sacked in August 2021 or run to expiry in Aug/Sep 2022.

So this is a very real topic for the next few weeks.



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zthe premise of a sacking though is what im disputing. Most of us agreed that finals were the pass mark this year. That means 8th...and yet here we are with 3 rounds to go still in the conversation. Say we do make the 8.... he performed as expected... say we don't.... we were in the fight until the final rounds. So while its not a pass mark.. its hardly a sackable offence
 

Giant Strides

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Well, whatever everyone thinks of Leon's coaching, he has managed to pull a rabbit out of his hat in getting the team through to the finals for a fifth year out of six (and again a difficult year with COVID). He must get some credit for that. We'll see how he goes in the finals series to determine if there's anything greater due to him.
 

Ichabod Noodle

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IMO, there are two things we need after two years of disaster in 2020 and 2021.

1. We need a HC who can get our Top 8 list into Finals.

2. We need a CEO who can deliver us point 1, plus 11 home games at MO and GS.
1. he just did - is 2021 still a disaster?
2. F**king Covid, mate. get over yourself.
 

General Giant

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Well, whatever everyone thinks of Leon's coaching, he has managed to pull a rabbit out of his hat in getting the team through to the finals for a fifth year out of six (and again a difficult year with COVID). He must get some credit for that. We'll see how he goes in the finals series to determine if there's anything greater due to him.
Yep I’m a big enough man to say he has done great this season. Well done to him and the coaching staff.
 

BarryAglett

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Yep I’m a big enough man to say he has done great this season. Well done to him and the coaching staff.
There was a poster on the Western Throwdogs board that said he wanted LC as HC instead of Bevo because of our tough style.
6 weeks ago many of us would have taken that swap!
 

ClockworkOrange

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1. he just did - is 2021 still a disaster?
2. F**king Covid, mate. get over yourself.
1. After reaching a GF in 2019, I suggest missing finals in 2020 and finishing 7th in 2021 - 4 games behind 6th - is not good.

Has it been an excellent last 3 weeks in lockdown? Yes.

Was it a pathetic first three weeks with home games? Yes.

2. Re Covid - it certainly hasn’t held the Swans back in 2021.

Is Covid going to be gone in 2022? Not likely.

So as I said last night congratulations to the team on a fantastic effort to make finals.

But I heard all this same stuff in late 2019 when Leon was handed a 2 year extension.

I’ve previously observed Leon will be sacked this month or continue to the end of his contract in 2022.

Clearly it’s the latter.

So here’s a question for you.

Do you give Leon another two year extension today?



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Ichabod Noodle

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1. After reaching a GF in 2019, I suggest missing finals in 2020 and finishing 7th in 2021 - 4 games behind 6th - is not good.

Has it been an excellent last 3 weeks in lockdown? Yes.

Was it a pathetic first three weeks with home games? Yes.

2. Re Covid - it certainly hasn’t held the Swans back in 2021.

Is Covid going to be gone in 2022? Not likely.

So as I said last night congratulations to the team on a fantastic effort to make finals.

But I heard all this same stuff in late 2019 when Leon was handed a 2 year extension.

I’ve previously observed Leon will be sacked this month or continue to the end of his contract in 2022.

Clearly it’s the latter.

So here’s a question for you.

Do you give Leon another two year extension today?



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I don’t have a problem with Leon.

I also don’t believe that there are any gettable coaches out there that would be a vast improvement over him.

and your point 2 was about a CEO “delivering 11 home games at MO & GS“ so I have no idea why you say it hasn’t held the swans back - they didn’t get 11 home games at the SCG this year either, so I assume you want their CEO dumped as well.
 

dlanod

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Half way through the year I wanted Leon gone at the end of the year. Obviously he's absolutely bought himself next year but I think the last few weeks makes me hopeful he has embraced a greater flexibility than previously where he always picked his most experienced team regardless of development or how they actually fit together.
 

Giant Strides

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Half way through the year I wanted Leon gone at the end of the year. Obviously he's absolutely bought himself next year but I think the last few weeks makes me hopeful he has embraced a greater flexibility than previously where he always picked his most experienced team regardless of development or how they actually fit together.
Once again, I find myself in close alignment with dlanod's thoughts.
 

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