List Mgmt. Gibbs - 2017 trade discussions! (Gibbs swapped for Wigg or 2nd)

Do you think Gibbs will be an Adelaide player by the end of this trade period?


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Elite Crow

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The one where you didn't win the argument and tried to move the goalposts and I said you could run the data yourself?

I gave up then, because even when presented with empirical data you don't concede that you were wrong. It's foolish debating anything with you because you're stubborn beyond any belief.

Even now - you change things again. I've posted three times the facts - captain quits, previous captain quits, one of their best players quits, their coach gets sacked, and they choose to trade for a 20 year old.

I can't be bothered arguing with someone so blind. You refuse to listen or consider anything suggested by others.

If you think the facts I've listed are evidence of a team that believes they're about to compete for a flag, then nothing I can say will every change that.
I changed the goal posts? I questioned how you could lump all the numbers together and then try and prove your point. That was a dumb position to take.

You said they brought him in as they thought they weren't going to be contenders for 5 years? Did you say that or not? How is your opinion a fact? It's shown up as dumb considering they won the flag 2 years later!!!!!!!!
 

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Kristof

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I changed the goal posts? I questioned how you could lump all the numbers together and then try and prove your point. That was a dumb position to take.

You said they brought him in as they thought they weren't going to be contenders for 5 years? Did you say that or not? How is your opinion a fact? It's shown up as dumb considering they won the flag 2 years later!!!!!!!!
No, I gave you all the data for the last five elections for every state and commonwealth. That was enough of a sample size to get a true result, and would mean that every Australian was counted, both on a state and federal level.

You wanted to find a smaller sample size, hoping it would prove your point. I said you have every right to, that you could argue that you only wanted to include recent results, and that the data was there for you.

Personally, I'd rather have a larger sample size for greater accuracy, but you can count whatever you want.

You think the WB thought they were heading towards a premierships within two years because they WON one in two years.

I think that every fact - losing three senior players, sacking their coach, finishing 14th, trading for juniors - points towards them rebuilding. Maybe they did actually think they could turn their team around from there within two years.

Do you think the GCS feel that if they sack Eade at the end of this year they'll win a flag in two years? It doesn't seem like a logical view for any club to hold.
 

Elite Crow

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No, I gave you all the data for the last five elections for every state and commonwealth. That was enough of a sample size to get a true result, and would mean that every Australian was counted, both on a state and federal level.

You wanted to find a smaller sample size, hoping it would prove your point. I said you have every right to, that you could argue that you only wanted to include recent results, and that the data was there for you.

Personally, I'd rather have a larger sample size for greater accuracy, but you can count whatever you want.

You think the WB thought they were heading towards a premierships within two years because they WON one in two years.

I think that every fact - losing three senior players, sacking their coach, finishing 14th, trading for juniors - points towards them rebuilding. Maybe they did actually think they could turn their team around from there within two years.

Do you think the GCS feel that if they sack Eade at the end of this year they'll win a flag in two years? It doesn't seem like a logical view for any club to hold.
So when you wrote "Good Points" you didn't mean it? And you know this all started from you saying if the Unions were a problem why does Labor continue to be the most popular? So how does an election 20 years ago help your point? And why 5 elections?

So you think now? So it wasn't a fact they brought him in because they thought they weren't contenders for 5 years?
 

Kristof

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So when you wrote "Good Points" you didn't mean it? And you know this all started from you saying if the Unions were a problem why does Labor continue to be the most popular? So how does an election 20 years ago help your point? And why 5 elections?

So you think now? So it wasn't a fact they brought him in because they thought they weren't contenders for 5 years?
Before I even collated that data, I said I would say "I'm wrong" if it proved that Labor was less popular than the Liberals. I chose five elections to take any suggestion of "too small sample size" out of it, to eliminate any ebbs and flows of the election cycle.

Just numbers.

And when they proved I was right, after pages of attacking me and my opinion, you didn't do what I had offered to do. To say "I'm wrong."

You just wanted to change the sample size.

Honestly, I was really disappointed in you and you fell in my estimation. This discussion is probably the first time I've engaged with you since then, because it's clear you're stubborn and don't listen. It's not worth it.
 

1970crow

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They paid massive money for a guy who was doing nothing and gave up a first and their captain, that's going all in.
A KPD who went number one in the draft a whole 12 months prior to that and had played 9 games in his first ever season at a club that boasted Cameron and Patton. Bulldogs gave up a first and a captain who wanted out of the club. The fact is that the measure of that trade would not have been whether the Dogs snared a flag in 3 years because Boyd would be on their list for another 6 or 7. Gibbs will be a fringe player in 3 years as he heads towards his mid 30's. If you can't see the difference it's only because you're choosing not to.
 

1970crow

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What if he was no good and you are paying $1M a year on long term contract plus giving away a first and your captain who was worth a first?
Surely Griffen would be worth 2 firsts which is what you reckon Gibbs is worth. GWS were also in the flag window. You can argue all you like about player values and whether clubs overpay, biut it's a seperate discussion. Boyd was 1 year into his career after being taken at number 1 the year before. The Dogs purchased a full career KPD, not a missing piece to an imminent premiership window that will be worthless in 3 years time.
 

LoBu

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I think Adelaide will offer their first round, if their father son this year is as good as we hope he will be a first rounder so we lose nothing trading that one out (14-18, depending on academy picks etc). We have some quality depth players too, Wigg, Cam EY, Mackay, etc if needed. The deal won't be better than last year, and that's what we offered last year.

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Elite Crow

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Before I even collated that data, I said I would say "I'm wrong" if it proved that Labor was less popular than the Liberals. I chose five elections to take any suggestion of "too small sample size" out of it, to eliminate any ebbs and flows of the election cycle.

Just numbers.

And when they proved I was right, after pages of attacking me and my opinion, you didn't do what I had offered to do. To say "I'm wrong."

You just wanted to change the sample size.

Honestly, I was really disappointed in you and you fell in my estimation. This discussion is probably the first time I've engaged with you since then, because it's clear you're stubborn and don't listen. It's not worth it.
You see that's the thing I don't think you proved that you were right so how can I admit I was wrong?

You lumped total votes over 5 elections over the states federal and said, look "Labor is more popular". That is a flawed method and I told you that and you said "good points". You really should go reread your reply.

Considering the debate went on for so long I let it go.

As for this one, you are trying to get me to admit something that is impossible for me to do. I do not believe WB paid Boyd $1M a year, gave up their low first pick and a their captain for a player on the notion that they thought they weren't going to contend for 5 years. They knew they had talent and especially when the player they brought in was near BOG in the grand final.

You are claiming something as fact when you cant, it's just your opinion.

And this is the GIbbs thread, I'm doing what you said I can't do and moving on, something which you appear incapable of doing.
 

Big Gazoongas

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I think Adelaide will offer their first round, if their father son this year is as good as we hope he will be a first rounder so we lose nothing trading that one out (14-18, depending on academy picks etc). We have some quality depth players too, Wigg, Cam EY, Mackay, etc if needed. The deal won't be better than last year, and that's what we offered last year.

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Ha quality depth.
CEY wont be playing this year. McKay is playing in the 22 as he did last year and Wigg has done stuff all. There are others id play well before Wigg right now
 

LoBu

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Ha quality depth.
CEY wont be playing this year. McKay is playing in the 22 as he did last year and Wigg has done stuff all. There are others id play well before Wigg right now
Wigg is better than Carlton depth, and he'd play well if he could make the Adelaide team. All those players would be Carlton best 22. Not sure what is funny?

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Kristof

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You see that's the thing I don't think you proved that you were right so how can I admit I was wrong?

You lumped total votes over 5 elections over the states federal and said, look "Labor is more popular". That is a flawed method and I told you that and you said "good points". You really should go reread your reply.

Considering the debate went on for so long I let it go.

As for this one, you are trying to get me to admit something that is impossible for me to do. I do not believe WB paid Boyd $1M a year, gave up their low first pick and a their captain for a player on the notion that they thought they weren't going to contend for 5 years. They knew they had talent and especially when the player they brought in was near BOG in the grand final.

You are claiming something as fact when you cant, it's just your opinion.

And this is the GIbbs thread, I'm doing what you said I can't do and moving on, something which you appear incapable of doing.
Moving on. Let's do it.

I think we should offer Wigg and Carlton's second back to them (once we get it from Geelong).
 

Shaz2012

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35 for Bryce in a solid Carlton upset.
More of that will certainly get me on side to give up a first. But either way he is in his prime now, ripe and not far off being over ripe. How many years of this left is my question.

Hawthorn is the living proof of what happens when you fly too close to the sun and sell yourself down the river playing fast and loose with your top picks.
 

Stiffy_18

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To be fair, I didn't watch the game, but it's not a brilliant initial indicator.

The Carlton board seemed to like his game overall, too
It was a wet miserable day. The efficiency would have been well down for everyone. I look at it this way, if Gibbs was at the Crows, he would be one of our better users of the footy.
 

TheRoo32

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Maybe Gibbs should just threaten to retire at the end of the season to get here easier, seems to be the path that is going to work for Ablett.......
This just reminds me so much of the double-standards of the victorian AFL 'journalists' and media.

Ablett suggests he would prefer to come home to Melbourne for personal reasons: "The Gold Coast should do the right thing and let Ablett come home to Geelong. It would be rude to stand in his way. They need to embrace the 'romance' of Gary returning to his home, Geelong'.

Gibbs requests a move home to Adelaide for personal reasons: "Well done Carlton for standing their ground. Adelaide shouldn't go looking for contracted players and not expect to pay up. Gibbs needs to honour his contract. Well done SOS, well done Carlton!".

Mind boggling hypocrisy...
 
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LC40

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This just reminds me so much of the double-standards of the victorian AFL 'journalists' and media.

Ablett suggests he would prefer to come home to Melbourne for personal reasons: "The Gold Coast should do the right thing and let Ablett come home to Geelong. It would be rude to stand in his way. They need to embrace the 'romance' of Gary returning to his home, Geelong'.

Gibbs requests a move home to Adelaide for personal reasons: "Well done Carlton for standing their ground. Adelaide shouldn't go looking for contracted players and not expect to pay up. Gibbs needs to honour his contract. Well done SOS, well done Carlton!".

Mind boggling hypocrisy...
Your example is spot on.

I do find the whole situation baffling. It's in the media that Gary desires to return home to Victoria.
IMO the Gold Coast are in a no win situation.
They can release one of the best players in the last twenty years and not stand in the way of his personal issues.
The Gold Coast do risk receiving less than adequate remuneration and Geelong certainly won't pay top dollar in terms of contract or draft picks.
His club of choice, Geelong are under salary cap pressure and will not break the bank for his services yet apparently 'the Suns should do the right thing.'

If a compromise can't be found is going back to a Melbourne based club enough to alleviate some of his anxiety or must it be Geelong?

Will the AFL be tempted to manufacture a compromise solution but then risk Geelong possessing a bargain basement midfield of Selwood, Ablett and Dangerfield.
If Ablett now in the right frame of mind has a Brownlow type season is this fair on the rest of the competition (putting aside the Sun's dilemma.)

The effects of mental health issues are now widely known and an individuals needs must be paramount but this whole situation has serious ramifications for the AFL if not handled well and fairly.

Of course the possibility exists that Gold Coast and Geelong may come to a fair agreement or Gary simply does retire.
Interesting times!

I know Bryce Gibbs thread.
 
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