All became stars at other clubs
List Mgmt. Gibbs - 2017 trade discussions! (Gibbs swapped for Wigg or 2nd)
- Thread starter spenze
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- Feb 8, 2013
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Yes but is that the price? Last year it was double that.
So we magically expect them to half their asking price one year later?
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The poster I was quoting said our A graders would only be B graders at other clubs.
The reality is actually often the exact opposite. Our A graders when they move to other clubs become A+ or elite.
C'mon. That's just ridiculous
- Jun 10, 2009
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Well if they don't just like last time we won't succumb to their demands....Simples.
- Jun 10, 2009
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Exactly 7 or 8 on their list would walk into our side, Patrick Cripps, Caleb Marchbank especially with the departure of Lever, Charlie Curnow, Bryce Gibbs, Marc Murphy, Sam Docherty especially with Smith out of action for 12 months, Jacob Weitering and certainly in the future Sam Petrevski-Seton if not immediately. Decent depth is a big, big problem not top end talent at Carlton .
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- Jun 10, 2009
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Probably not, only probably not, you're still seriously delusional after all this time it seems....
Mr Kitch
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- Oct 5, 2012
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The CFC and many of your board were guilty of "criminally underrating" Eddie Betts too. Had Carlton paid him anything like what he was worth, he'd still be there. Many on your board supported the club in not paying him any more than he had already been offered. No high moral ground for you there.
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This I actually agree with wholeheartedly and it's been a big problem with us for about 15 years now.
At the start of the millennium we were absolutely cruelled with no depth whatsoever or talent. Our list was a total rubbish and this was then compound by having our top draft picks stripped from us for two years (picks 1, 1, 2, 18, 31, 34) and fining us a million bucks (a lot of money 17 years ago) meaning we couldn't afford to pay our players. We were forced to bring in a huge bunch of recycled players and castoffs from other clubs just to field a competitive side. We brought in the three number one draft picks and then traded out to get Chris Judd and made a push for the flag. Ultimately we didn't have enough depth in our bottom 6 to get there, with several finals appearances and a top finish of 5th.
We then butchered a raft of draft picks for nearly a decade from 2007 to 2014. Many of our good players left during that time as well. Then Judd went down. The club sacked Ratten and foolishly appointed Malthouse seemingly oblivious to the state of the list. We let good players leave for nothing including Betts, Jacobs, Robinson, Waite and Garlett.
As a consequence our list was shallow and was all over the shop circa 2014.
Fortunately the club identified this (finally). In 2015 we committed to a full-blown rebuild. Next year is earmarked as another rebuild year for us before we will start considering rising up the ladder again. We are trying to concentrate our talent at the moment at 23 years old and younger, getting games into as many of the kids as we can under a new coach with a new direction, while also ensuring the culture doesn't get destroyed by constant floggings.
Internally, we are calling it 'a total club reset.'
Oh FFS, this is the Adelaide board, not an opportunity for you to give us a history lesson on Carlton.
We know your views, why do you think we need to keep reading them over and over and over and over?
I'm not arguing that he's not in the top 100, obviously that is an arguable view, he's just not in the top 50 best players in the comp, which was the idiotic statement of fact made by another poster. Your best and fairest result is only meaningful in determining how far down the pecking order he is amongst a very, very poor best 22 group. Let's not forget that Cripps polled more per game before getting injured, so he's really behind Cripps as well, making him 5th. And Brownlow voting we all know is heavily skewed towards midfielders, we know that the best key position players in the comp don't poll well. And of course he's consistently done that, Carlton have been a s**t football team throughout his entire career. Would I be right in saying that you've made the finals twice in that period and won maybe one? You've been s**t, a solid B-grade midfielder that plays 20 games every year will poll well, both in your b&f and when they have their odd A-grade game will also hit the Brownlow scoreboard, whereas your gun KPD won't poll in both.
Look, David Mackay will play 200 games for Adelaide and apart from his breakout 2009 year, has existed in the bottom 3-4 players selected week in and week out, VB and Reilly also spring to mind. That he's going to clock up 300 at Carlton throughout the 15 years he'll have played doesn't speak to anything outside of his ability to stay on the park. Outside of every Carlton fan and a handful of Adelaide supporters who want to pot the club over the trade 'failure', Gibbs is not an A-grade midfielder, he is Carlton's 3rd most important midfielder behind Murphy and Cripps, he is a solid B-grade mid who has occasional A-grade games.
Just on the Bronwlow, AA CHB Michael Hurley polled 4 votes, to 4th round tradee Jarryd Lyon's 6, can you explain how that makes Lyons a more valuable football commodity than Hurley. I'll be interested to hear.
What you don't understand is that aiming for "not getting flogged" already shows your culture is ****ed. That is a terrible culture to have.
Look at the Crows, we aim to win every god damn season.
I don't disagree, but there's only so many minutes available in there. Our midfield was pretty good the other night with Greenwood only playing 49% TOG, so if he pushes up to the 70%, where would Gibbs minutes come from? I think Gibbs would play predominately off half back for us with some on-ball time, especially with Smith out for 2018.
I think it will still be a struggle because all the talk from east is that they're still going to demand 2 first rounders. In reality, nobody knows what was asked for, offered and refused last year. SOS won't be seen to have accepted much less than the previous year, so it becomes a matter as to how on the record they were with what they demanded. I can't see a deal getting done unless we pay significant overs. Which we might do if we win the flag and have the picks to 'burn' following Lever and Cameron trades.
Of course, because only 2 clubs will have those picks, it's easy to give up something that doesn't belong to you.
Just kidding, I'd pay our 16 or 17 without a second thought. Our first round is about right, depending on the winds, a little either side of that will be acceptable as well. But when they're talking our first and second or still 2 firsts, then the player simply isn't worth it by any metric. If SOS genuinely thinks that he deserves a premium because of where we are situated on the premiership table, then he's deluded. Or that we need to overpay because he's contracted. We're acquiring a player who has asked to be traded out, we pay for the value of the player based on quality and time left in the game. That's a rolled gold B-grader, with occasional A-grade games with 2-3 years at his current level.
I'd move Douglas out of there and injuries happen. Just look at Greenwood, we are obviously playing him injured and he had 6 touches. If we had Gibbs, Greenwood wouldn't be playing.
Same here, Lyons at Gold Coast, Wright at Carlton, Kerridge made your top 10 in 2016. It's really on forwards that struggle significantly in poor sides. And that's a pretty obvious point to make, but does tend to get forgotten. Mids tend to not be relied upon as much, get less midfield time, so don't improve when they move to a better side.
Where would Douglas go?
Douglas could go to the half back or half forward. We are missing Smith and likely Cameron.
Douglas is 31 at the start of next year, he's going to be slowing down in output.
I agree that he is worth that, and maybe an exchange of our second for their third.
It never been about wether it would be an addition to have Gibbs, but rather the fact of what Carlton demanded for him.
Im personally of the opinion that Carlton told him that if he goes back and plays good football this year they would tradrle him out.
Now if he does come here we need to get at least 100 games out of him. Cant afford to get screwed out of another Gibbs because of some dodgy AFL system.
So Malice, what do you think is a trade FAIR to both clubs. I'm genuinely interested.
I don't agree with that. I think carlton can accept less and sos "save face". The message can be:
"We really wanted to keep bryce last year. We wanted to have the chance to put some additional support mechanisms for him and his family in place. We did this but there is still a desire to leave for family reasons. In light of this we felt it was the right thing to do to facilitate a trade to Adelaide."
I think you will have pick 17 in the draft.
Yep'
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