List Mgmt. Gibbs - 2017 trade discussions! (Gibbs swapped for Wigg or 2nd)

[Malifice]

In that case how about we do Jenkins for Cripps as a straight swap?

Its harder for the SA teams.

WA teams do OK thanks to the abundance of WAFL talent and the lifestyle over here. (as a Victorian Its pretty awesome over here in WA). They're reasonably good at retaining the Vics and SA boys they draft. Ebert and Judd are the main ones that spring to mind that have left in recent memory. Victorian teams do OK because they can offer more media exposure (and a majority of the talent is Victorian, although that also increases competition due to more clubs in Victoria).

If you look at recent years, usually 3-4 A grade mids come on the market each year, and 0-1 Key Forward. Mids on the market in the past 3 years (including this one) include names Kelly, Fyfe, Martin, Gibbs, Danger, Treloar, JOM and Mitchell to name a few.

Your club has been pretty clear that its difficult getting them wanting to move to Adelaide. Victorian teams dont really have that problem, but we do have to sell the club over and above the 9 others in Vic.

 

[Malifice]

Malifice, couldn't you have written broadly the same thing regarding high picks at any point in the last 12 years?

They've got a history of working out pretty mediocre ...

Your post brings back great memories of:

We got as high as 5th and then the bloke to the left of Judd there (Fev) imploded, we sacked him and disintegrated from there. We then blew the drafts from 2008-2014 (with the exception of Cripps in 13). First rounders from those drafts include Watson, Lucas, Bootsma and Menzel. We traded one pick out for McLean. Another out for Jacksh and Boekoest. Got in Malthouse. It was a train wreck.

Bolton came in with a plan to reset the list. We're in the middle of a very deliberate plan to tip young talent in (starting with the backline, which is no surprise considering who our list manager is). Most pundits can see what we're doing and the view is almost unaimous that we're finally going about it the right way.

In any event this isnt about us (other than tangentially as a question of list management/ trading Gibbs for more picks to help with the rebuild).

With losing Gibbs we had to balance our kids getting smashed and not having enough leadership, experience and hard bodies around them and ruining them (the Melbourne effect) against getting in more high draft picks.

Personally I would have done the trade last year for a 2016 1st and a second this year (which is looking like pick 36 odd).

 

[TexForPM]

It's honest.

I don't care about your analysis of your team or Gibbs.

Martin, fyfe, Rocky please.

Go away



Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[Vhaluus]

We got as high as 5th and then the bloke to the left of Judd there (Fev) imploded, we sacked him and disintegrated from there. We then blew the drafts from 2008-2014 (with the exception of Cripps in 13). First rounders from those drafts include Watson, Lucas, Bootsma and Menzel. We traded one pick out for McLean. Another out for Jacksh and Boekoest. Got in Malthouse. It was a train wreck.

Bolton came in with a plan to reset the list. We're in the middle of a very deliberate plan to tip young talent in (starting with the backline, which is no surprise considering who our list manager is). Most pundits can see what we're doing and the view is almost unaimous that we're finally going about it the right way.

In any event this isnt about us (other than tangentially as a question of list management/ trading Gibbs for more picks to help with the rebuild).

With losing Gibbs we had to balance our kids getting smashed and not having enough leadership, experience and hard bodies around them and ruining them (the Melbourne effect) against getting in more high draft picks.

Personally I would have done the trade last year for a 2016 1st and a second this year (which is looking like pick 36 odd).

Of course you would have done that deal. a 1st and a 2nd is ridiculous overs for a non-elite midfielder.

 

[Malifice]

It's honest.

I don't care about your analysis of your team or Gibbs.

Then dont read it.

Martin, fyfe, Rocky please.

Cant help you there I'm afraid.

Go away

No. I was posed a question related to Carltons list management strategy in light of the fact that this is a thread about a Carlton listed player (to shed some light on what our list management strategy and priorities might be).

You might not want your team to draft Gibbs, but others do.

 

[Malifice]

Of course you would have done that deal. a 1st and a 2nd is ridiculous overs for a non-elite midfielder.

For the love of Odin. What is it with you people rating picks by what round they fall in? The round doesn't mean s**t.

It was picks 15 and 36, spread over two years.

 

[TexForPM]

Then dont read it.



Cant help you there I'm afraid.



No. I was posed a question related to Carltons list management strategy in light of the fact that this is a thread about a Carlton listed player (to shed some light on what our list management strategy and priorities might be).

You might not want your team to draft Gibbs, but others do.

It was 8 months ago...

You come here and say "can't help but think Gibbs would make a difference...."
Please he would make a difference in 10 goals to zero quarter?

You are still going on and on and on about this trade. I really hope it doesn't happen now.

 

[Niximus]

For the love of Odin. What is it with you people rating picks by what round they fall in? The round doesn't mean s**t.

It was picks 15 and 36, spread over two years.

Do you actually think people are confusing late firsts with early firsts?

People are saying first round because it's referring to our first round pick, we know what pick number it was.

 

[Vhaluus]

For the love of Odin. What is it with you people rating picks by what round they fall in? The round doesn't mean s**t.

It was picks 15 and 36, spread over two years.

The last pick we got around 15 was Jake Lever.

I wouldn't do another Lever for Gibbs as a straight swap.

See the difference between our clubs is the Crows strike gold with our picks, you strike s**t.

1 pick 15 for us will get us more quality than you usually manage with 2 top 10 picks.

We value our draft picks more than you guys do because we know our club will do more with them.

 

[Malifice]

The last pick we got around 15 was Jake Lever.

No it wasnt. It was Jordan Galluci. With the actual pick 15. That was the player you selected.

How is he helping you get a flag this year, next year or the year after?

We can wait and see who you draft with pick 36 this year, and see what impact he has over the next 3 years.

Youre at opposite drafting stage to us. At present you should be trading out the odd pick for players to get you over the line (as long as youre happy with your young talent, and you all seem to be very happy with it).

The fact is you dont have a midfield barring Sloane. This is accepted by your own board as being true and your number 1 pressing list management issue over the next few years (it was number 1 priority last year too, and more than a few on your board were furious you didnt address it). The consensus in the AFL is: 'tag Sloane beat the Crows'. Melbourne and the Roos have done just this and beaten you.

In fact, not only did you not address iyour most pressing list management issue last year, you actually traded out a midfielder, and didnt trade one in; despite having a classy South Australian midfielder putting his hand up and wanting to play for you in the one area you needed extra class... and at the precise time you needed it!

OK. If pick 15 and 36 were too high a price to pay thats fair enough. Everyone is entitiled to their opinion. Im not here to change your mind. But if it was me in charge of Adelaide recruiting I would have done it in a heartbeat. This year McGovern looks like leaving (getting you WCEs 1st rounder) so you are going to have 2 firsts this year most likely. Id then use those two firsts this year to get in another (3rd) good midfielder from elsewhere.

But thats just me I guess.

 

[Vhaluus]

No it wasnt. It was Jordan Galluci. With the actual pick 15. That was the player you selected.

How is he helping you get a flag this year, next year or the year after?

We can wait and see who you draft with pick 36 this year, and see what impact he has over the next 3 years.

Youre at opposite drafting stage to us. At present you should be trading out the odd pick for players to get you over the line (as long as youre happy with your young talent, and you all seem to be very happy with it).

The fact is you dont have a midfield barring Sloane. This is accepted by your own board as being true and your number 1 pressing list management issue over the next few years (it was number 1 priority last year too, and more than a few on your board were furious you didnt address it). The consensus in the AFL is: 'tag Sloane beat the Crows'. Melbourne and the Roos have done just this and beaten you.

In fact, not only did you not address iyour most pressing list management issue last year, you actually traded out a midfielder, and didnt trade one in; despite having a classy South Australian midfielder putting his hand up and wanting to play for you in the one area you needed extra class... and at the precise time you needed it!

OK. If pick 15 and 36 were too high a price to pay thats fair enough. Everyone is entitiled to their opinion. Im not here to change your mind. But if it was me in charge of Adelaide recruiting I would have done it in a heartbeat. This year McGovern looks like leaving (getting you WCEs 1st rounder) so you are going to have 2 firsts this year most likely. Id then use those two firsts this year to get in another (3rd) good midfielder from elsewhere.

But thats just me I guess.

Obviously I was talking BEFORE Galluci since he is the pick in question we're talking about potentially trading.

See again it's a fundemental difference of philosophy. Carlton are happy to bottom out and milk to draft picks, the Crows don't.

So Galluci might not matter in this year or next year.. but after that he could be the key part of a premiership attempt in 5 years time.

Not every club can toss away draft picks like they're nothing, knowing the AFL will just keep handing them more because of how s**t they are. Did you know Carlton have had more first round priority picks granted to them than every non-Victorian team put together?

 

[Malifice]

See again it's a fundemental difference of philosophy. Carlton are happy to bottom out and milk to draft picks, the Crows don't.

That was my entire argument! Youre making it for me now.

One minute you dont need 1st round picks, because you dont bottom out and get low picks... the next minute you desperately need those picks to get in kids.

If my club was on the verge of a flag assault, had a gun forward line and back line, but no midfield, sure as s**t I wouldn't be taking 1st rounders to the draft to get in 18 eyar old kids taken with picks in the teens. I'd be getting developed ready to go midfielders in to get me a flag; particularly if I was comfortable with where the youth on my list was at (which you seem to be).

Lets see how it works out for you guys this year.

Did you know Carlton have had more first round priority picks granted to them than every non-Victorian team put together?

Priority picks? What the heck has that got to do with anything?

From memory we have had four. Pick 1 in 2005 (Marc Murphy) and pick 2 in 2003 (Andrew Walker) - which was the same year we were stripped of our 1st and 2nd round picks, including the draft prior. The other one was pick 19 a few years later (Sean Hampson). Matty Kruezer was the other in 2007.

We're not even leading the Victorian clubs when it comes to priority picks from memory. When you factor in the 5 picks they took off us, I think we're still behind.

Are you telling me that all interstate teams combined have had less than 4 priority picks? I cant be arsed checking it, and you're clearly just being a bit of a tool towards me and sticking the boot into Carlton because you cant have a civil discussion. There is no need to get all aggressive towards visitors mate.

 

[Vhaluus]

That was my entire argument! Youre making it for me now.

One minute you dont need 1st round picks, because you dont bottom out and get low picks... the next minute you desperately need those picks to get in kids.

If my club was on the verge of a flag assault, had a gun forward line and back line, but no midfield, sure as s**t I wouldn't be taking 1st rounders to the draft to get in 18 eyar old kids taken with picks in the teens. I'd be getting developed ready to go midfielders in to get me a flag; particularly if I was comfortable with where the youth on my list was at (which you seem to be).

Lets see how it works out for you guys this year.



Priority picks?

From memory we have had four. Pick 1 in 2005 (Marc Murphy) and pick 2 in 2003 (Andrew Walker) - which was the same year we were stripped of our 1st and 2nd round picks, including the draft prior. The other one was pick 19 a few years later (Sean Hampson). Matty Kruezer was the other in 2007.

We're not even leading the Victorian clubs when it comes to priority picks from memory. When you factor in the 5 picks they took off us, I think we're still behind.

Are you telling me that all interstate teams combined have had less than 4 priority picks? I cant be arsed checking it, and you're clearly just being a bit of a tool towards me and sticking the boot into Carlton because you cant have a civil discussion. There is no need to get all aggressive towards visitors mate.

Although if it helps, I can try and communicate with you on your level: lpolz cartlank draaaft piks lul!!! the blue are s**t and SOS is a knob roffl!!!

That easier for you?

Huh? Now you're just dribbling garbage.

When did I say we don't need first round draft picks? My contention all along is we DO need them because we use them so well.

How did chasing a gun midfielder work out for your club btw? Judd wasn't his name?

I said first round priority picks and yes you've had more than every other interstate team combined. You can't factor in the 5 picks they took off you because you ****ed up and deserved to have them taken off you. What a ludicrous statement. Also I wouldn't come to the Crows board and complain about draft sanctions given we were hit worse than either you or Essendon despite a much more minor infraction.

 

[Malifice]

I said first round priority picks and yes you've had more than every other interstate team combined.

First round priority picks? We've had 3 then: Marc Murphy, Matthew Kruezer and Andrew Walker.

Shaun Hampson was second round priority pick.

And I call bullshit. Are you saying that all 8 interstate teams have had just the 2 x 1st round priority picks between them? Fremantle have had a few havent they? At least one, that they traded for Croad. The also drafted Hasleby with a 1st round priority pick in 1999, and West Coast drafted Judd with one in 2001.

So you're wrong. 3 for West Coast and Freo alone matches our 3.

Also, what the hell has this got to do with Gibbs?

You can't factor in the 5 picks they took off you because you ****** up and deserved to have them taken off you. What a ludicrous statement. Also I wouldn't come to the Crows board and complain about draft sanctions given we were hit worse than either you or Essendon despite a much more minor infraction.

We were stripped of picks 1, 2, 2 and 20. And we fined over a million dollars in 2002 (which is a lot more money than it is today)

Your sanctions didnt even come close. And what the * does any of this have to do with Gibbs?

 

[Vhaluus]

First round priority picks? We've had 3 then: Marc Murphy, Matthew Kruezer and Andrew Walker.

Shaun Hampson was second round priority pick.

And I call bullshit. Are you saying that all 8 interstate teams have had just the 2 x 1st round priority picks between them? Fremantle have had a few havent they? At least one, that they traded for Croad. The also drafted Hasleby with a 1st round priority pick in 1999, and West Coast drafted Judd with one in 2001.

So you're wrong. 3 for West Coast and Freo alone matches our 3.

Also, what the hell has this got to do with Gibbs?



We were stripped of picks 1, 2, 2 and 20. And we fined over a million dollars in 2002 (which is a lot more money than it is today)

Your sanctions didnt even come close. And what the **** does any of this have to do with Gibbs?

Fremantle have had 1, West Coast have had 1.

 

[Malifice]

Fremantle have had 1, West Coast have had 1.

Freo have had two. They got pick 1 (in addition to pick 4) in 2001. The same year West Coast got their PP (Judd).

The Dockers then infamously traded that priority pick to the Hawks for Trent Croad. The Hawks used that to draft Luke Hodge.

The Dockers got another one 2 years prior in 1999 and used it to draft Paul Hasleby .

Two for Freo. One for WCE.

Google it.

Also google our sanctions. We were stripped of picks 1 and 2 in 2002 (and they wanted to take pick 16 off us as well, but we had already traded it to Port before they whacked us). The following year they stripped picks 5 and 20 off us.

So we lost picks 1, 2, 5, and 20. At a time when our list had fallen to absolute s**t. And were fined a million bucks. We nearly had to hand back the keys. We were on our knees. Im sorry, but your sanctions didnt come close. Trust me thats a good thing for you guys.

Can we leave this dick measuring contest alone now, and get back to discussing Gibbs?

 

[fabs33]

For the love of Odin. What is it with you people rating picks by what round they fall in? The round doesn't mean s**t.

It was picks 15 and 36, spread over two years.

We've never gone into a draft with an early first round pick, in our entire history. So you can be damn sure that when we talk about our first round picks that we know exactly where they fall.

 

[Vhaluus]

Freo have had two. They got pick 1 (in addition to pick 4) in 2001. The same year West Coast got their PP (Judd).

The Dockers then infamously traded that priority pick to the Hawks for Trent Croad. The Hawks used that to draft Luke Hodge.

The Dockers got another one 2 years prior in 1999 and used it to draft Paul Hasleby .

Two for Freo. One for WCE.

Google it.

Also google our sanctions. We were stripped of picks 1 and 2 in 2002 (and they wanted to take pick 16 off us as well, but we had already traded it to Port before they whacked us). The following year they stripped picks 5 and 20 off us.

So we lost picks 1, 2, 5, and 20. At a time when our list had fallen to absolute s**t. And were fined a million bucks. We nearly had to hand back the keys. We were on our knees. Im sorry, but your sanctions didnt come close. Trust me thats a good thing for you guys.

Can we leave this dick measuring contest alone now, and get back to discussing Gibbs?

Ok so you only tied all non-victorian clubs, not leeches on the system at all.

But fine you want to discuss Gibbs? He's an ok footballer and nothing more.

Look at what Hawks traded to Sydney for a midfielder who is younger than Gibbs and already better than him. now tell me a 1st and 2nd rounder is worth it.

 

[TheRoo32]

*walks in, sees Vhaluss and Malifice still going around in circles*

 

[Malifice]

Look at what Hawks traded to Sydney for a midfielder who is younger than Gibbs and already better than him. now tell me a 1st and 2nd rounder is worth it.

I think we can all agree the Hawks got an excellent deal there. Of course, Mitchell was out of contract.

Now look at GWS (a side in contention) gave up for Deledio.

 

[Malifice]

We've never gone into a draft with an early first round pick, in our entire history. So you can be damn sure that when we talk about our first round picks that we know exactly where they fall.

My point was only rating a pick by the round is pretty disingenuous. Particularly 1st rounders. Massive gap in value between pick 1 and pick 16.

 

[Niximus]

My point was only rating a pick by the round is pretty disingenuous. Particularly 1st rounders. Massive gap in value between pick 1 and pick 16.

When people say 'first round pick' they almost always mean a late first round pick. You may not like this, but that is the common usage.

Higher picks are usually referred to more specifically e.g. "A top 10 pick", "A top 5 pick", "A top 3 pick".

Nobody is disagreeing with giving a first round pick for Gibbs because they are mistakenly believing that we're talking about pick 5...

 

[Vhaluus]

I think we can all agree the Hawks got an excellent deal there. Of course, Mitchell was out of contract.

Now look at GWS (a side in contention) gave up for Deledio.

It depends who is trying to make the deal happen. Now usually if a player is under contract it's the club trying to do the poaching. Here? not so much.

Crows have shown they're quite happy to not get Gibbs, they entertained the idea at his request but were quite fine walking away too.

I'd argue Carlton need to get picks in more desperately than the Crows need an ok midfielder. Particularly in a market with 3 huge midfield free agents this year all younger and better than Gibbs.

 

[fabs33]

My point was only rating a pick by the round is pretty disingenuous. Particularly 1st rounders. Massive gap in value between pick 1 and pick 16.

Are you sure you're not the one misinterpreting what's being written? If someone posts "first rounder" they may be referring to the entire spread and not just the first half. In which case if a person isn't willing to give up any pick between 1 and 18, it would be entirely accurate to say they aren't willing to part with a first rounder, regardless of how you may view that opinion.

 

[fabs33]

When people say 'first round pick' they almost always mean a late first round pick. You may not like this, but that is the common usage.

Higher picks are usually referred to more specifically e.g. "A top 10 pick", "A top 5 pick", "A top 3 pick".

Nobody is disagreeing with giving a first round pick for Gibbs because they are mistakenly believing that we're talking about pick 5...

This is exactly it. We're a supporter base unaccustomed to seeing our club with an early first round pick, so when we say "our first round pick" it's highly unlikely for us to be referring to something we've never had.