Gideon Haigh SLAMS Justin Langer. Destroys Cricket Australia with logic and facts.

PhatBoy

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#26
Problem is that with increased focus on junior T20 the development of bowlers is restricted too. The "give everyone a go" issue means everyone bar the keeper gets 2 overs each, and half the kids dont get a bat.

My son (now 20) is a bowler. Nothing special, he went through the district junior rep program up to Under 16's but mostly in the 2nd XI. As more T20 rolled out he enjoyed his junior cricket less and less - so at 14 or 15 he started playing mens afternoon astroturf cricket where at least he would get an opening spell of 5 or 6 overs and then come back later and never went back to juniors.

The give everyone a go philosophy is being unfairly blamed for a lot of issues I reckon.

I am 35 and came through ‘you get 2 (later four) overs to bat’/bowl’ cricket in the lower primary ages (under 8s and 10s from memory) and I know for a fact it was happening before I was playing. And the cricketers of those generations never had such issues in batting time or showing patience.

By the time you reach the teen years, yeah, you should have learned to cope with the immediacy of being dismissed - you only get one chance - and of being in the field for 30-40 overs and not getting a bowl. If the 5-6 years of development you receive at that point aren’t enough to teach you to value your wicket, you’re probably never going to learn the skill.

There are two things which have a role to play, IMO. One is coaching at the youngest levels. In the age groups where you can’t be dismissed (my sons play in them at the moment) I see a lot of coaches telling their players to have a swing at basically everything because they’re going to face their allotment regardless. I know with my boys I tell them to block anything on the stumps - the only free swings I encourage are at balls down the leg side.

The other, whether people think it’s unfairly blamed or not, is the Big Bash.

Look at the IPL. There are what, 8-9 franchises or something. In any given side there are 3-4 internationals from other countries. There are literally a few dozen first class sides in India. So the chances of a Fc cricketer getting into the ipl are mathematically small, and while it is obviously a huge goal for a any Indian player, it’s very very tough to crack so as a result the Ranji Trophy remains a very lofty and more realistic goal for a huge majority of their players

In Australia we’ve got 6 FC sides worth of players, and much less overseas players, vying for spots in the Big Bash. Financially it is the biggest lure for our regular domestic players and they can almost ALL get a game. Therefore it makes sense for them to Tailor their games to the format and focus on it.

If a young batsman at the start of the season has to choose between 2 hours of blocking work in the nets, and 2 hours of fine tuning that can help him get a Big Bash contract hitting sixes, what’s he going to choose?
 

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TigerCraig

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#27
No issues with give everyone a go - but when its compressed into a T20 it doesnt. Half the team dont get a bat and noone gets much of a bowl.

The bat in pairs for 4 overs - and either lose 5 runs each wicket, or work on averages is a good system for up to Under 10/11 - wickets still mean something and kids don't get discouraged. I played heaps of indoor as a younger bloke and thats the way it worked too

For 11/12 up either 30 over one dayers or 60 over a week 2 dayers (or a mix of both) are much better for giving all a go. No issue with retirements at 50 either - so long as they can cycle back in at 9 down.

T20 is fine as an extra - mid week twilight comps are great, but not as the only form of junior cricket
 

Admiral Byng

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#28
Gideon is normally such a balanced and sane cricket writer, but anyone talking up Maxwell as a test prospect can't be taken seriously. The guy has shown he doesn't have the temperament for T20 cricket.
 

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#29
imho fast bowling is 90% natural talent, 10% technique to stop getting injured. Our fast bowling stocks are pretty good because as Shaun Tait would say - you can either bowl quick or you can't. We will always have decent bowling stocks imho.

Spinners might be slightly different but the best spinner in history only had one coach who wasn't even on the CA payroll.
Don't agree with that at all. As with most sports, talent is only a small part of the equation, whereas mental application takes up the largest portion by far.
 

PhatBoy

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#30
No issues with give everyone a go - but when its compressed into a T20 it doesnt. Half the team dont get a bat and noone gets much of a bowl.

The bat in pairs for 4 overs - and either lose 5 runs each wicket, or work on averages is a good system for up to Under 10/11 - wickets still mean something and kids don't get discouraged. I played heaps of indoor as a younger bloke and thats the way it worked too

For 11/12 up either 30 over one dayers or 60 over a week 2 dayers (or a mix of both) are much better for giving all a go. No issue with retirements at 50 either - so long as they can cycle back in at 9 down.

T20 is fine as an extra - mid week twilight comps are great, but not as the only form of junior cricket
Yeah sorry I probably should have specified I wasn’t having a go at your previous post, you’ve made some excellent points. Just started on my train of thought from seeing the initial give everyone a go reference is all.
 

Admiral Byng

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#32
He gets out stupidly at times when the team need him to play sensibly, even in T20 cricket.

The other day he was in with his team needing something like 25 runs off 40 balls. He got himself out trying to hoik a cross-bat shot over deep midwicket for six. With a set batsmen at the other end too. This is not an isolated incident. He does this consistently in all forms of the game. He just can't contain himself without inventing shots that aren't necessary. He is the type of player who would get out playing the reverse sweep in a test match when the team need him to just bat all day. Once he gets to double figures he gets bored and starts swinging the bat at things.
 

frankrizzo

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#33
If getting out stupidly means you aren't capable of being in the Aussie side then our whole top 6 should get the chop, even Harris who was our best in the series played some stupid shots.

Our senior batsman marsh and ussie played some awful cricket in this series. Head threw his wicket away nearly every time. they all played impatient cricket, Maxwell isn't some special case he is just a typical 2019 Aussie batsman.
 

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Admiral Byng

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#37
If getting out stupidly means you aren't capable of being in the Aussie side then our whole top 6 should get the chop, even Harris who was our best in the series played some stupid shots.

Our senior batsman marsh and ussie played some awful cricket in this series. Head threw his wicket away nearly every time. they all played impatient cricket, Maxwell isn't some special case he is just a typical 2019 Aussie batsman.
Big Footy has exploded with rage (quite rightly) every time a batsman has made 20 or 30 and then got out playing a stupid shot. Marsh, Khawaja, Head being just some examples. This is problem the selectors should consider if they decide to drop a player and bring in somebody else. Maxwell is another player who will just do exactly the same, he is famous for it, and is probably even worse at it than the rest, he is bordering upon being a special case of bad.
 

Admiral Byng

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#38
I'm confused. T20 or Test?
Both. he is too rash and impatient even for T20 cricket. T5 is probably more his natural game. Expecting him to bat all day on a tricky pitch and grind out an innings in test matches? No chance. He'll get 20 off 19 balls and then get out caught.
 

PhatBoy

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#39
He gets out stupidly at times when the team need him to play sensibly, even in T20 cricket.

The other day he was in with his team needing something like 25 runs off 40 balls. He got himself out trying to hoik a cross-bat shot over deep midwicket for six. With a set batsmen at the other end too. This is not an isolated incident. He does this consistently in all forms of the game. He just can't contain himself without inventing shots that aren't necessary. He is the type of player who would get out playing the reverse sweep in a test match when the team need him to just bat all day. Once he gets to double figures he gets bored and starts swinging the bat at things.
In 13 test match dismissals he’s been out twice playing what you would call reckless shots. And in one of those cases his teammates had left him at 5-120. And he’s never fallen to a reverse sweep.

How can anyone who has watched the Australian team play over the last 5 tests and actually sit there and say ‘well you can’t pick so and so because he gives his wicket away occasionally.’ Half the blokes being picked don’t do it occasionally - they do it regularly.
 

PhatBoy

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#40
Big Footy has exploded with rage (quite rightly) every time a batsman has made 20 or 30 and then got out playing a stupid shot. Marsh, Khawaja, Head being just some examples. This is problem the selectors should consider if they decide to drop a player and bring in somebody else. Maxwell is another player who will just do exactly the same, he is famous for it, and is probably even worse at it than the rest, he is bordering upon being a special case of bad.

Famous for it how?

I’ll post the only two ‘reckless’ dismissals of his career - and one of them wasn’t even a slog, just a poor decision to hit against the turn - based on cricinfo commentary:


46.2 soft dismissal. Doesn't pick the shot well. This is nowhere in his swinging arc. Premeditates the loft. This is not full enough to go for the loft, and he ends up dragging it across the line, and gives mid-on a simple catch 129/6

21.1 bowled him! That was such a low-percentage shot. Came down the track, looked to whip him across the line, against the turn. Closing the face was a mistake. It straightened, beat his bat, and crashed into the top of off stump. 75/3
 

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#41
Big Footy has exploded with rage (quite rightly) every time a batsman has made 20 or 30 and then got out playing a stupid shot. Marsh, Khawaja, Head being just some examples. This is problem the selectors should consider if they decide to drop a player and bring in somebody else. Maxwell is another player who will just do exactly the same, he is famous for it, and is probably even worse at it than the rest, he is bordering upon being a special case of bad.
If he makes more runs then anyone else before getting out (which he has shown he does at first class level) then why shouldn't he be picked?
 

Kram

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#42
I disagree that he isn't potentially suitable for Test cricket but Haigh has a massive boner for Maxwell. Expect a lot more objectivity from someone like him.
 

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#43
Both. he is too rash and impatient even for T20 cricket. T5 is probably more his natural game. Expecting him to bat all day on a tricky pitch and grind out an innings in test matches? No chance. He'll get 20 off 19 balls and then get out caught.
You realise he made 104 off 185 against India our last tour there.
 

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#44
Both. he is too rash and impatient even for T20 cricket. T5 is probably more his natural game. Expecting him to bat all day on a tricky pitch and grind out an innings in test matches? No chance. He'll get 20 off 19 balls and then get out caught.
The thing is, Maxwell's already done it. He put on 191 with Steve Smith against India in Ranchi, making 104 himself. The following match, he made 45 out of 137, then he was dropped.
 

Admiral Byng

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#45
If he makes more runs then anyone else before getting out (which he has shown he does at first class level) then why shouldn't he be picked?
I don't think he will. His career record in first class cricket for turning half centuries into centuries is pretty poor, worse than any of the other blokes he would be replacing. He has only played a couple of shield games this summer and his isn't lighting up the board, not in the top 10 for averages, again, on current FC form he is performing worse than the blokes he would be replacing. I just can't see it working out.

They should be looking at Wade as a specialist bat I reckon, at 5 or 6.
 

Admiral Byng

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#46
The thing is, Maxwell's already done it. He put on 191 with Steve Smith against India in Ranchi, making 104 himself. The following match, he made 45 out of 137, then he was dropped.
Nah, he played the tour of Bangladesh after that, and was then dropped prior to the start of the Ashes 2017-18. Didn't make a score against bangers, got a start in each innings but was out before reaching 50.

Exactly the sort of reason why most of BF is calling for any of the current top 6 to be dropped - plenty of starts but nobody making big scores.
 

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#47
I don't think he will. His career record in first class cricket for turning half centuries into centuries is pretty poor, worse than any of the other blokes he would be replacing. He has only played a couple of shield games this summer and his isn't lighting up the board, not in the top 10 for averages, again, on current FC form he is performing worse than the blokes he would be replacing. I just can't see it working out.

They should be looking at Wade as a specialist bat I reckon, at 5 or 6.
His first class record at converting is better - by a LONG way - than Head and Finch, basically the same as Harris, better by far than Labuschagne, and none of them have the defence that they’ve played as much of their FC cricket at test level as Maxwell, and all of them are generally used higher in the order than he is.
Wade’s conversion rate is almost identical,

Considering the unexplainable horn they have for guys who can bowl - not to mention Maxwell’s fielding ability - its bizarre that they would not consider him.
 

Doodlesweaver

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#48
There is no argument for accelerated pathways, none at all. Having been a junior in some of those systems and later a coach, the affect it has on your psyche is almost always negative, ultimately affecting your skills.

For every kid that's a success, it burns anywhere from dozens to potentially hundreds. The counter argument is that it strengthens grass roots when they return to a lower level, but it doesn't. They become captains, coaches or administrators and the same problems are perpetuated and repeated.

This isn't a cricket phenomenon, it has happened with every major sport, cricket is just so far behind.

Wanna git gud as a kid? Play against adults as early as possible.
It's bad for children's egos to play against other kids for too long in competitive sport. You don't know you are born playing in junior grades.
 

Admiral Byng

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#49
His first class record at converting is better - by a LONG way - than Head and Finch, basically the same as Harris, better by far than Labuschagne, and none of them have the defence that they’ve played as much of their FC cricket at test level as Maxwell, and all of them are generally used higher in the order than he is.
Wade’s conversion rate is almost identical,

Considering the unexplainable horn they have for guys who can bowl - not to mention Maxwell’s fielding ability - its bizarre that they would not consider him.
Maxwell's record is not very good - 104 innings, 21 fifties and only 7 hundreds. Finch has already been dropped. None of these blokes are what you would call very good, but replacing them with Maxwell would be just more of the same. Harris and Head were the leading run scorers for Australia this series so are unlikely to be dropped. Even if they were, Maxwell is not a solution, his record does not stand out as a potential test player. We are scrapping the bottom of the barrel already, and Maxxy has had his churn.

It would be just replacing Southwark with Emu Export - neither of them are particularly palatable options.
 
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