Gillard's AWU/Wilson past about to haunt her?

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A number of those involved have now stated that she was actively canvassing support for a tilt at the PM position up to a month before the trigger was pulled.
Haha. You mean Maxine McKew? Considering that she was a Rudd loyalist do you actually think she would have even heard about the events prior to them going down? How stupid do you think the conspirators were that they'd actively canvas somebody like that?

For somebody who accepts that all politicians lie you're very willing to take a politician's statement as gospel truth when it fits your narrative. No matter that the person spilling the beans has a vested interest in doing so or that they likely wouldn't have known what they're saying anyway.

Who else? Tanner? Anybody without obvious bias who would likely have actually known?

Here's Richo who has a very different opinion:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...ng-to-oust-kevin/story-fnfenwor-1226505623136

Is his opinion worth much? Well he's constantly criticised Gillard since she took the reigns so he's hardly standing up for his nearest and dearest. Would he have that sort of knowledge? Well considering he's one of the best known Labor figures in the media and a former factional player I'd say he'd have a fair idea.

So why should we take McKew's version, which is undoubtedly biased and likely ignorant over a conflicting account that comes from a less biased source (either way) and somebody more likely to have the knowledge they claim?
 

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Haha. You mean Maxine McKew? Considering that she was a Rudd loyalist do you actually think she would have even heard about the events prior to them going down? How stupid do you think the conspirators were that they'd actively canvas somebody like that?

For somebody who accepts that all politicians lie you're very willing to take a politician's statement as gospel truth when it fits your narrative. No matter that the person spilling the beans has a vested interest in doing so or that they likely wouldn't have known what they're saying anyway.

Who else? Tanner? Anybody without obvious bias who would likely have actually known?

Here's Richo who has a very different opinion:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...ng-to-oust-kevin/story-fnfenwor-1226505623136

Is his opinion worth much? Well he's constantly criticised Gillard since she took the reigns so he's hardly standing up for his nearest and dearest. Would he have that sort of knowledge? Well considering he's one of the best known Labor figures in the media and a former factional player I'd say he'd have a fair idea.

So why should we take McKew's version, which is undoubtedly biased and likely ignorant over a conflicting account that comes from a less biased source (either way) and somebody more likely to have the knowledge they claim?
KE could not possibly have meant McKew. He state "A number of those involved . . .". Even KE knows Maxine was no more involved than the Man on the Moon.
 

Todman

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Mentioning the Rudd coup I find it perfectly believable she wasnt in any hurry to take over. Shes smart enough to know she wasnt ready, and the electorate/media wasnt quite ready to embrace a woman PM - hindsight has borne this out perfectly.
What I'm saying is she would have forcast many of the issues she has had, not that it made them work out any better for her
Its probable she was given the "This is your one chance , don't come back later" ultimatum by the plotters
What paternistic crap about the electorate not ready for a woman PM. The only one on the public record for wanting the job was Bronwyn Bishop ( during the Hewson-Downer years). Not one woman ever stuck her hand up and said. "I want it!" If you don't throw your hat into the ring then you would never be picked.

As for JG. It's been leaked that her staff were preparing her victory speach for weeks before the coup.
 

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What paternistic crap about the electorate not ready for a woman PM. The only one on the public record for wanting the job was Bronwyn Bishop ( during the Hewson-Downer years). Not one woman ever stuck her hand up and said. "I want it!" If you don't throw your hat into the ring then you would never be picked.

As for JG. It's been leaked that her staff were preparing her victory speach for weeks before the coup.
I wouldn't argue that the entire electorate wasn't ready for a female PM, but the reaction of some sections of the electorate to her ascension to PM supports Pessimistic's point.
I think also the victory speech story comes from the second spill.
 

Pessimistic

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Nah ... if I'd worked out at the beginning of month that Rudd would be gone by June 24, she would have known Pess:)

Was just too pat - the day before when she manufactured that "outrage" that Rudd's COS had been ringing around checking the numbers. Anyway, subsequent events have revealed the real Julia.
Thats not what I said, Didnt Richo tell the nation. ?

I heard rumours of a handover even before Rudd was elected PM. Its the timing Im talking about here, not the mechanics of the coup
 

Pessimistic

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What paternistic crap about the electorate not ready for a woman PM. The only one on the public record for wanting the job was Bronwyn Bishop ( during the Hewson-Downer years). Not one woman ever stuck her hand up and said. "I want it!" If you don't throw your hat into the ring then you would never be picked.

As for JG. It's been leaked that her staff were preparing her victory speach for weeks before the coup.
Alan Jones and his followers still arent ready for a woman PM :D

You reckon both she and Abbot dont have a victory speech prepared in outline ?
 

Admiral Byng

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Why does Rudd matter? He was finished as an effective PM already, it was just a matter of time before he was removed. These things are rarely done cleanly and bloodlessly.
 

noddy

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Noddy - 5K 17 years ago is probably equiv of at least 10K to day. I was under the impression that Julia Gillard had a mind and a memory like a steel trap not - a simple minded dipsy.
Ah but when i was struggling 4th year apprentice $5000 would look like a small fortune but fast forward to the early nineties & $5000 would look like a weeks wages for a partner in a Law firm & a national secretary of a thriving Trade Union.

A simple minded dipsy :eek: am i wrong in that there could be some bad blood between you & Julia that dates back to when you were a part of the Victorian Labor movement?
 

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http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/po...d-polling-to-trigger-coup-20120214-1t49l.html

In the days before challenging Kevin Rudd for the prime ministership, Julia Gillard personally handed to her Labor colleagues copies of secret internal polling designed to undermine his leadership.
Labor MPs told Fairfax that Ms Gillard used the polling as part of an effort to persuade them to support her for the prime ministership.
The revelation casts fresh doubt on Ms Gillard's protestations that she was a reluctant challenger who decided to move against her leader only at the last minute - on the day she openly declared herself.
The MPs are now prepared to speak on a background basis because they are disenchanted with her leadership, angry at her level of candour in her public comments this week, and no longer prepared to support her in any party ballot for the leadership.
"This stuff of Gillard's that 'I only tumbled into it on the day of the challenge' is patently untrue," said a caucus member she had lobbied before the coup.
Channel Nine reported the same revelations last night.
Not just McKew, but obviously she's of the same opinion, the 4 Corners report was pretty cut and dried; her Office just happened to be writing a victory speech 2 weeks prior to her taking the job - what an amazing coincidence, especially in light of numerous other reports that she was canvassing people around that time.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/gillard-in-plot-before-rudd-coup-20121025-288bt.html

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/national/12895208/rudd-coup-planned-well-ahead/

http://www.news.com.au/national/jul...-mckews-new-book/story-fndo4bst-1226504231287

If you believe her, good luck to you.
 

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John Bonney

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Yep, I want the journalists I read to be journalists and not public relations consultants. Bolt, Smith and others are journalists. Lenore Taylor and Michelle Grattan are nothing but public relations consultants for the Labor Party. I want whatever party is in power to be held to account by the free media. Watergate- loved it. It proved that the media and free media could take on powerful interests. This is our Watergate-but only if there are people with courage willing to come forward. We will wait and see. You might have your wish and maybe it will be covered up. There has certainly been a lot of "missing documents" to date.
LOL and you get your main source of opinions from shock jocks like Alan Jones :)
 

GuruJane

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Thats not what I said, Didnt Richo tell the nation. ?

I heard rumours of a handover even before Rudd was elected PM. Its the timing Im talking about here, not the mechanics of the coup
Roger on the timingt
. But the idea she didn't know about it and wasn't complicit weeks beforehand doesn't wash at all.
More than anyone else she must have had a gutfull of Kev- ie clearing up all the messes when he was out of country. She made that heartfeltclear during the challenge.
 

Pessimistic

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Early in Rudds PMship some of the things he said were outrageous and didnt connect with the people. Then good 'ol Julia would come in and rephrase it for the public. Made a good team in a way.
it didnt help that kev was often overseas leaving Julia doing most of it back home

Then I got the didtinct Impression she stopped getting him out of the shit. Maybe 2-3 months before the coup. Something happened then to piss her off and, on his own, he sunk fast

I still think she would have preferred a handover round about now really. Didnt happen.

(edit) I see from your post, Jane , that we agree entirely - posted after I begun posting this
 
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LOL and you get your main source of opinions from shock jocks like Alan Jones :)
Where do you get your info?

I'm pretty sure it's recorded somewhere that people eventually wander and become entrenched into the blogs/websites that support their views. I've no reason to disbelieve this because I regularly read the Bolta, Prof Bunyip, Tim Blair et al. I also read the Drum and other lefty (albeit that one is taxpayer funded) sites. I tend to scoff at these (not all the time).

The above quote is juvenile.
 

noddy

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So we are now back on the Rudd knifing, is that an admission that this AWU thing is dead and buried?
Where's DR when you need him.

But you could be right the sting seems to have gone out of this at the moment even in the Aus but i guess something else will drop out of someones diary or Julie finds herself another well meaning "friend"
 

GuruJane

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Ah but when i was struggling 4th year apprentice $5000 would look like a small fortune but fast forward to the early nineties & $5000 would look like a weeks wages for a partner in a Law firm & a national secretary of a thriving Trade Union.
Come off it. She wouldn't have been earning anywhere that in 1995. I read somewhere recently she was getting about $80K pa which sounds about right. Would have been taking home about $1100 a week - high in comparison to the workers, but nowhere near forgetting when someone gives you $5K windfall as your remorse gift. Probably paid it off her mortgage, if it happened, which I heavily suspect now that it did. At that time home mortgage rates were stellar and wouldn't be surprised if she had a loan of $100K plus that's what you would do if you had a brain which she does. And as I said, it was bosses money.

A simple minded dipsy :eek: am i wrong in that there could be some bad blood between you & Julia that dates back to when you were a part of the Victorian Labor movement?
Nah .. never knew Julia, was long out of it by then. All of my cohorts became big wheels in the Hawke/Cain era of the '80s but I was out of it even then. JG was next gen. Am abit surprised tho you think there is something personal in this - I dismissed much of this stuff on this thread after had read the first part of the S & G interview. Revelations since then have changed my position. Of course I don't think JG is dipsy Noddy! That's what makes the crap she's been going on with un-credible. King Elvis is spot on.
 

King Elvis

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Then I got the didtinct Impression she stopped getting him out of the shit. Maybe 2-3 months before the coup. Something happened then to piss her off and, on his own, he sunk fast
Would that be when Rudd had to step in and sort out the IR Reform because she couldn't?

Or where she advised Rudd to drop the ETS?

Or where she was one of the key supporters of the RSPT - until public opinion was against it?

Or when she was in charge of the BER?

Or when she advised them not to bother increasing the old age pension because 'they don't vote for us anyway,' ??

Or when she was the architect of their Immigration Policy?

Rudd wasn't perfect, by any stretch, and I still think he was a disaster - but I think it's become obvious that Swan and Gillard were a large part of the reason his stint as the Prime Minister turned to shit. I think you could mount a solid argument that those two were more responsible for the failings of the Rudd Government, than Rudd was himself.

So we are now back on the Rudd knifing, is that an admission that this AWU thing is dead and buried?
Not at all, just highlighting Gillard's seeming propensity to misrepresent things and inability to give a straight answer.
 

noddy

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Come off it. She wouldn't have been earning anywhere that in 1995. I read somewhere recently she was getting about $80K pa which sounds about right. Would have been taking home about $1100 a week - high in comparison to the workers, but nowhere near forgetting when someone gives you $5K windfall as your remorse gift. Probably paid it off her mortgage, if it happened, which I heavily suspect now that it did. At that time home mortgage rates were stellar and wouldn't be surprised if she had a loan of $100K plus that's what you would do if you had a brain which she does. And as I said, it was bosses money..
That surprises me, back in 95 i was a Caster operator (shift work mind) for BHP & i was on $55k pa at least so i would of thought someone in her position would have been on a lot more.
 

GuruJane

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So we are now back on the Rudd knifing, is that an admission that this AWU thing is dead and buried?
No - just a natural discussion angle in debate about the prime minister's veracity, word-trustworthineess, ethics etc following events of last couple of weeks.
 

GuruJane

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That surprises me, back in 95 i was a Caster operator (shift work mind) for BHP & i was on $55k pa at least so i would of thought someone in her position would have been on a lot more.
That would have included overtime and penalty rates? Not the case with her employment. She wasn't a senior partner as far as I can make out. No doubt fringe benefits attached and stuff like generous super, profit sharing and the expectation of riches in the future, but a mortgage is a huge imposition on your take home pay especially when you are single. (There I am identifying with JG again!)
 

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http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/po...d-polling-to-trigger-coup-20120214-1t49l.html





Not just McKew, but obviously she's of the same opinion, the 4 Corners report was pretty cut and dried; her Office just happened to be writing a victory speech 2 weeks prior to her taking the job - what an amazing coincidence, especially in light of numerous other reports that she was canvassing people around that time.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/gillard-in-plot-before-rudd-coup-20121025-288bt.html

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/national/12895208/rudd-coup-planned-well-ahead/

http://www.news.com.au/national/jul...-mckews-new-book/story-fndo4bst-1226504231287

If you believe her, good luck to you.
This is how it was reported at the time: http://www.smh.com.au/national/rudds-leadership-hangs-by-a-thread-20100623-yywa.html


Nine News reported that NSW senator Mark Arbib, Senator Feeney and parliamentary secretary Bill Shorten told Ms Gillard earlier on Wednesday they’d lost confidence in Mr Rudd and wanted her to run.
She gave no answer.

Tomorrow would be the last day for the rebels to mount a challenge because Parliament will rise for the eight-week winter break and many expected Mr Rudd to call an election before Parliament returned.

Mounting a leadership challenge is much more difficult when the house is not sitting because all the MPs and senators have to be recalled.
As far as I am concerned it has never been disputed that when the so-called "faceless men", Shorten, Feeney and Arbib, confronted Gillard on the Wednesday asking her to run she did not agree to run immediately. Rather, she sought more time for Rudd to "prove himself" as he had requested of her. She could not persuade the putsch to desist and only then made the decision to stand against Rudd.

All your references to "leaking polling to MPs" (which has been flatly denied by the one MP McKew named) and "preparing victory speeches 2 weeks prior" does not contradict the proposition that even on the Wednesday Gillard was trying to support Rudd's continuing leadership.

It is not a case of "If you believe her, good luck to you." Rather, it is a case of Gillard's statements are entirely consistent with every piece of available information. If you choose to not believe her then, sure, go live in your conspiratorial hideaway. This thread is the right place for people whose flights of fancy leave solid earth well below (if I might mix my metaphors to add to your fun).
 

Admiral Byng

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Rudd wasn't perfect, by any stretch, and I still think he was a disaster - but I think it's become obvious that Swan and Gillard were a large part of the reason his stint as the Prime Minister turned to shit. I think you could mount a solid argument that those two were more responsible for the failings of the Rudd Government, than Rudd was himself.
I think history records that Rudd stuffed things up all on his own, through his own character faults. He wasn't some hapless pawn carried along by the others. He was impossible to work with given his micro-management style and his foul temper and bullying. I think that's been clearly established already by just about anyone that ever worked for him or with him.
 
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