Gillard's AWU/Wilson past about to haunt her?

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Getz

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Vying for the title with Rudd as the worst prime minister in history is quite an achievement
Honestly, do you believe that?
The worst prime minister in history?
Not even just the worst Australian prime minister... but the worst ever?
You're too smart to be that hyperbolic! And I hate that I'm writing this.
 

Dry Rot

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Has anyone else noticed that banshee Dry Rot's absence of late?

Not turning out as the Liberal shill would have liked.
You're not very observant, are you?

Haven't been on forums much this year, actually, aside from a few fluff posts on the media board.

Bit happening my end offline this year. Happy for you to stand in and handle that shit and I'll post more. :)

Lots to LOL at the Libs state and federal if you have the time.
 

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Honestly, do you believe that?
The worst prime minister in history?
Not even just the worst Australian prime minister... but the worst ever?
You're too smart to be that hyperbolic! And I hate that I'm writing this.
sorry to clarify "worst australian prime minister" in history

both labor and the nation are still recovering.
 

Getz

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sorry to clarify "worst australian prime minister" in history

both labor and the nation are still recovering.
OK, you stand by it. But I still don't understand your reasoning.

Is Gillard the worst, because of Australia's economic situation?

What about when we sold our iron ore for crazy cheap, to Japan, before they bombed us with it?
What about Howard and Costello's currency exchange program, that haemorrhaged money?
 

Maggie5

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OK, you stand by it. But I still don't understand your reasoning.

Is Gillard the worst, because of Australia's economic situation?

What about when we sold our iron ore for crazy cheap, to Japan, before they bombed us with it?
What about Howard and Costello's currency exchange program, that haemorrhaged money?
Don't worry about it, Abbott is not only the worst PM this country has ever had but in has proven it in the shortest amount of time. Two records.
 

romeoh

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OK, you stand by it. But I still don't understand your reasoning.

Is Gillard the worst, because of Australia's economic situation?

What about when we sold our iron ore for crazy cheap, to Japan, before they bombed us with it?
What about Howard and Costello's currency exchange program, that haemorrhaged money?
Gillard was fine. Ludicrous statement really. Economically -most of the world wishes they were in our position.
 

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OK, you stand by it. But I still don't understand your reasoning.

Is Gillard the worst, because of Australia's economic situation?

What about when we sold our iron ore for crazy cheap, to Japan, before they bombed us with it?
What about Howard and Costello's currency exchange program, that haemorrhaged money?
Rudd was so bad he motivated me to join the labor party.

If you were to join, if you haven't already, you should listen to what Labor has to say about his reign.
 

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Don't worry about it, Abbott is not only the worst PM this country has ever had but in has proven it in the shortest amount of time. Two records.
I think you might be proven correct in time.

I saw Abbott's job to just sit there and do nothing for 3-6 years other than to unwind the carbon tax, unwind the mining tax and stop spending so much in an effort to get the budget under control.

The pay down the debt levy is political suicide and the PPL scheme is ludicrous.

That said, if he shifts health and education to the states, that would be a major achievement. That said, that would also justify lower federal taxes and larger state taxes (being an increase in the GST (yes, I know it is administered by the federal but the beneficiaries are the states)).

but the guy needs to know his limitations and just stick to stopping the boats
 
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Maggie5

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I think you might be proven correct in time.

I saw Abbott's job to just sit there and do nothing for 3-6 years other than to unwind the carbon tax, unwind the mining tax and stop spending so much in an effort to get the budget under control.

The pay down the debt levy is political suicide and the PPL scheme is ludicrous.

That said, if he shifts health and education to the states, that would be a major achievement. That said, that would also justify lower federal taxes and larger state taxes (being an increase in the GST (yes, I know it is administered by the federal but the beneficiaries are the states)).

but the guy needs to know his limitations and just stick to stopping the boats
I must admit I didn't expect much from him to begin with but I find that the criticism/ridicule again and again of Gillard to be unfair. Sure the way she became PM was not good but Rudd had to go. The fact that she was able to pass so much good legislation with a minority government and to have to deal with independents and the greens, to me shows had all things being right, she would be given much more credit than has been accorded to her.
I won't even go into the media circus.

And to get back to the main thread, she has only been mentioned by someone that is less than credible and then investigation is not into Gillard but the AWU.
 

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I must admit I didn't expect much from him to begin with but I find that the criticism/ridicule again and again of Gillard to be unfair. Sure the way she became PM was not good but Rudd had to go. The fact that she was able to pass so much good legislation with a minority government and to have to deal with independents and the greens, to me shows had all things being right, she would be given much more credit than has been accorded to her.
I won't even go into the media circus.

And to get back to the main thread, she has only been mentioned by someone that is less than credible and then investigation is not into Gillard but the AWU.
For me I can't but help think she was a blatant liar who bought her way into the election she won buying trading her reputation and word for the preference vote and implementing a carbon tax. It seems Abbott is trying to follow suit and he is now in the same lying basket.

Yes she got a whole pile of legislation though but it was crap legislation. Carbon tax is a big fail, mining tax is a big fail, NDIS is a big f up and GONSKI is ludicrous. All of this needs to be unwound or re-done. The tax has not and will not change emissions; this should be addressed by jurisdiction and setting energy production policies that make sense for that jurisdiction (the cost should be for enterprise not government). The mining tax is a shambles and benefits foreign investors and gives them our resources cheaply, NDIS has totally stuffed the roll out of services once provided by states and GONSKI is a repeat on NDIS.

Gillard's hatred of men, her veiled attack on the men in her party, her attack on blue ties and her attack on industry was shameful. How can you lead and unite a nation if you are so filled with hatred? I appreciate she was under immense stress with her party undermining her but that is simply part of the job in our political system. After all, what goes around comes around. Her only defense, is she had to roll Rudd as he was a loonie.

I feel Abbott will go the same way and can't but help think democracy is failing under the pressures of the internet, minority parties and self-interest groups who lobby. I am yet to have an opinion on whether this is a good thing or a bad thing. I am starting to think having a dysfunctional and irrelevant government incapable of achieving anything might actually be the new norm.
 

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For me I can't but help think she was a blatant liar who bought her way into the election she won buying trading her reputation and word for the preference vote and implementing a carbon tax. It seems Abbott is trying to follow suit and he is now in the same lying basket.

Yes she got a whole pile of legislation though but it was crap legislation. Carbon tax is a big fail, mining tax is a big fail, NDIS is a big f up and GONSKI is ludicrous. All of this needs to be unwound or re-done. The tax has not and will not change emissions; this should be addressed by jurisdiction and setting energy production policies that make sense for that jurisdiction (the cost should be for enterprise not government). The mining tax is a shambles and benefits foreign investors and gives them our resources cheaply, NDIS has totally stuffed the roll out of services once provided by states and GONSKI is a repeat on NDIS.

Gillard's hatred of men, her veiled attack on the men in her party, her attack on blue ties and her attack on industry was shameful. How can you lead and unite a nation if you are so filled with hatred? I appreciate she was under immense stress with her party undermining her but that is simply part of the job in our political system. After all, what goes around comes around. Her only defense, is she had to roll Rudd as he was a loonie.

I feel Abbott will go the same way and can't but help think democracy is failing under the pressures of the internet, minority parties and self-interest groups who lobby. I am yet to have an opinion on whether this is a good thing or a bad thing. I am starting to think having a dysfunctional and irrelevant government incapable of achieving anything might actually be the new norm.
I will stay away from your first two paragraphs as could totally derail this thread but I certainly take issue with the bolded, absolutely no evidence to this unless you have believed the Murdoch media.
 

romeoh

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For me I can't but help think she was a blatant liar who bought her way into the election she won buying trading her reputation and word for the preference vote and implementing a carbon tax. It seems Abbott is trying to follow suit and he is now in the same lying basket.

Yes she got a whole pile of legislation though but it was crap legislation. Carbon tax is a big fail, mining tax is a big fail, NDIS is a big f up and GONSKI is ludicrous. All of this needs to be unwound or re-done. The tax has not and will not change emissions; this should be addressed by jurisdiction and setting energy production policies that make sense for that jurisdiction (the cost should be for enterprise not government). The mining tax is a shambles and benefits foreign investors and gives them our resources cheaply, NDIS has totally stuffed the roll out of services once provided by states and GONSKI is a repeat on NDIS.

Gillard's hatred of men, her veiled attack on the men in her party, her attack on blue ties and her attack on industry was shameful. How can you lead and unite a nation if you are so filled with hatred? I appreciate she was under immense stress with her party undermining her but that is simply part of the job in our political system. After all, what goes around comes around. Her only defense, is she had to roll Rudd as he was a loonie.

I feel Abbott will go the same way and can't but help think democracy is failing under the pressures of the internet, minority parties and self-interest groups who lobby. I am yet to have an opinion on whether this is a good thing or a bad thing. I am starting to think having a dysfunctional and irrelevant government incapable of achieving anything might actually be the new norm.
Sometimes you are so fair and so reasonable then you go and post this and I think wow. ;) Can't find myself agreeing with any of it.
 

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Sometimes you are so fair and so reasonable then you go and post this and I think wow. ;) Can't find myself agreeing with any of it.
do you not feel for the clients of the disabilities services commission who are getting a reduced service, filled with confusion, uncertainty and disenfranchised staff? Are these the types of people we should be looking after and playing around with their lives.

One other simple question, does a person with disabilities need solutions for their personal needs in their personal suburb or some monstrous faceless commission being run from canberra?

common sense says this is a great idea but stupid in practice.


roll this same argument into GONSKI and the same but worse outcomes are delivered.
 

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Sometimes you are so fair and so reasonable then you go and post this and I think wow. ;) Can't find myself agreeing with any of it.
if foreigners can get around the mining tax and locals can't as easily and thus can buy our assets cheaper. we are effectively handing the keys to our resources to foreigners which results in less profits staying here, less state royalties and less federal taxes.

can you explain how this is a windfall or a good idea for anyone other than china?




I really think you and I want the same thing from the 4 policies but please don't confuse what we want with what we have got.
 

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I will stay away from your first two paragraphs as could totally derail this thread but I certainly take issue with the bolded, absolutely no evidence to this unless you have believed the Murdoch media.
I think it is hard to deny she let loose on the men undermining her within Labor. Then when probed she couldn't keep the slander on her own party as it was cutting her nose off to spite her face. So very quickly the focus was on Abbott.

She was so emotional that should failed to realise by attacking all men, that it was not only unfair on 99.99% of men and attacking circa 50% of the voter base.

The support for this was the words that came from the horses mouth and telecasted by the various news channels.


All in all, I am glad Labor has moved on from the Rudd/ Gillard years. The only question left is how long it will take to reform the party.
 

romeoh

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do you not feel for the clients of the disabilities services commission who are getting a reduced service, filled with confusion, uncertainty and disenfranchised staff? Are these the types of people we should be looking after and playing around with their lives.

One other simple question, does a person with disabilities need solutions for their personal needs in their personal suburb or some monstrous faceless commission being run from canberra?

common sense says this is a great idea but stupid in practice.


roll this same argument into GONSKI and the same but worse outcomes are delivered.
Think Gonski, mining tax, NDIS are all excellent reforms, aimed at giving greater and fairer access to more people in the community and when correctly implemented, would make a significant difference.
Don't know where are you getting the Gillard hatred of men stuff from. Have not seen any evidence of it. Saw several examples of men hating her and saw her quite correctly identify comments by Tone(that are on record)and certainly seem to suggest he has issues re gender.
 

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Think Gonski, mining tax, NDIS are all excellent reforms, aimed at giving greater and fairer access to more people in the community and when correctly implemented, would make a significant difference.
Don't know where are you getting the Gillard hatred of men stuff from. Have not seen any evidence of it. Saw several examples of men hating her and saw her quite correctly identify comments by Tone(that are on record)and certainly seem to suggest he has issues re gender.
can you explain how the reforms are more than good ideas, rather explain how they do achieve what you suggest
 

romeoh

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can you explain how the reforms are more than good ideas, rather explain how they do achieve what you suggest
The Gonski is designed to make the system better for all students. It means funding would be allocated based on the needs of the students; to be topped up with additional funding to take into account types disadvantage different students experience, such as Indigeniety, remoteness, second language learners, refugee children and disability. In this way the funding would work for the majority of students as opposed to the SES model which advantages the already advantaged. I don't see the issue-its a good idea and easy enough to implement. Not perfect but certainly greater chance of success than the SES model (that has seen, for example, Pisa scores in gov't schools drop since its implementation.)
The mining companies, I noticed for example, in today's paper, 'have been paying a much lower proportion of their operating profits than the rest of the corporate sector, about 5-10% points less. Miners have been ramping up investment spending and writing it off quickly against their incomes for tax purposes.' These are things that can be addressed and would make a diff.
 

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The mining companies, I noticed for example, in today's paper, 'have been paying a much lower proportion of their operating profits than the rest of the corporate sector, about 5-10% points less. Miners have been ramping up investment spending and writing it off quickly against their incomes for tax purposes.' These are things that can be addressed and would make a diff.
Don't get me wrong, I support a mining tax but not this one.

The original mining tax, as you probably already know, would have bankrupted the country given the government was underwriting a portion of the losses. So I guess this tax is a little better than the original.

But rather than stopping and taking a deep breath and implementing a better taxation system of the industry the federal government persisted with their original poorly structured tax and tweaked it.

As you state the mining tax pays less than 30% on taxable profits is a big furphy. I won't bother boring you with tax detail but an accounting profit is calculated which for arguments is $100. However, taxation has different rules which result in permanent and temporary timing differences. The other which you highlighted is if you take EBITDA as the tax base, of course the taxable % will be less than 30% due to interest, depreciation, amortisation. To say these deductions are not reasonable to ludicrous. Would you accept a taxi driver should be able to deduct fuel, deduct the depreciation of the car, the interest repayments on the car and the amortisation on the taxi lease?

Again in your response, you commented on what is should be doing rather than what it is. I is not generating the tax revenue desired and it is giving away national resources to foreign companies. How is that a good tax?
 

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@Power_Raid How about we scrap the mining tax and partially nationalise the sector say a 10% stake in all mining companies Australian operations placed in the hands of a Sovereign Wealth Fund that puts most of the profits into building needed infrastructure with the rest reinvested in blue chip Australian stocks to a maximum investment of 10% in any one company.
 

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@Power_Raid How about we scrap the mining tax and partially nationalise the sector say a 10% stake in all mining companies Australian operations placed in the hands of a Sovereign Wealth Fund that puts most of the profits into building needed infrastructure with the rest reinvested in blue chip Australian stocks to a maximum investment of 10% in any one company.
Sure if you want to kill and industry and ignore the value and risk others have made in terms of exploration. The big issue with this is people seeing taxing the mining industry as a tax on BHP and Rio. Unfortunately, BHP and Rio don't actually pay the price of a tax rather it is pushed downstream into exploration and prospectors by way of lower acquisition prices. Given the high risk nature of prospectors and exploration, if there isn't high returns no one does it. Without the important activity of exploration, there simply isn't the mines of tomorrow. Australians are so good at this that 46% of the worlds exploration assets are run by Aussies. So we not only kill a local industry but our global competitive advantage because our graduates won't have a place to learn their trade.

You have to remember good title has already been provided with agreed terms and conditions attached. No issue for new titles issued as you suggest thought.

Further, would the sovereign wealth fund contribute to 10% of the exploration and capital going forward?

We would have to change the constitution to allow your suggestion.


A simple royalty basis is far better as it is harder to avoid and ensures we get a tax revenue for every tonne of ore. A corporate tax at 30% (already), a royalty at 8% (slight increase), mining rents at $500k pa for medium size leases (already) and a GST at 10% (already), native title at 2% plus the mining rents would be fair.

Again this would require a change in the constitution as the feds can't tax property of the states.


The bigger issue for me is this tax revenue should be spent on regional development and areas effected by the mining rather than pork barreling our biggest cities. But that is another debate.
 
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