Unsolved Girls that went missing from Adelaide Oval 1973

[Kurve]

Of interest.
- Arthur Brown - The Beaumont Children

 

[PenfoldsFan]

at the actual time of the snatching, it was hardly a public place, less than a couple of people saw it happen, one of which was the lolly seller, who was on his way to or from the pay office, the others were the people jr and kg were with when the man approached, the game was on, so the crowd were all watching the action, this was behind the creswell stand, in the archway/entryway, near the gates

Splitting hairs, it was still a public place with thousands of people meters away, there would be plenty of places with much less risk involved.
I get the feeling he probably got some extra kick from pulling it off in such a setting.
Compared to the BC case, they weren't taken from the middle of Moseley sq, it was in a relatively quieter area and like the AO case, only witnessed by a few people.
That on both occasions those few people didn't pose a problem for whoever did it and whilst alert to what they saw, no one intervened either.
All we're taken right under the nose of people who saw it as nothing extraordinary.
Obviously there we're subtle differences in the MO but that could be attributed to the spontaneity of each event and the passage of time, there's no doubt the Beaumont's we're groomed, but they we're at the beach regularly, that game provided a couple of hour window.

 

[DropBearess]

I was very involved in SANFL football in 1973 (and extensively before and after). I'm confused about reports both families "always sat in the Sir Edwin Smith stand every week". North Adelaide and Norwood were playing on that day and their home grounds were at Prospect and Norwood respectively. They played each other only twice in the minor round that year and in most other preceding seasons. This particular game only happened at Adelaide Oval because it was the 'match of the day', due to North Adelaide being a premiership contender.
I don't see how or why either family would have wanted season tickets to Adelaide Oval. The Ratcliffes were Norwood supporters and l believe Norwood only played at Adelaide Oval three to four times that year.
I think this discounts the theory that the children had been watched on previous occasions by someone who knew where they sat.
I believe Joanne and Kirste were abducted by the same perpetrator as the Beaumont children. I think both crimes were opportunistic, but had been extensively planned and fantasized about should the opportunity have arisen.

 

[charlie20]

yes dropbearess, this bothers me too, rita huckel, who was kirste's grandmother, lived in hilton, which, given that most people supported clubs near where they lived in those days, would suggest she supported west or torrens, les ratcliffe said that joanne had been with them to footy at ao many times before, so i suppose they had been using season tickets for some years prior to 73, perhaps it was a way dedicated supporters could hedge so that they would never miss out on seeing their team if the game was held at ao instead of suburban home-away, do you know if it was sanfl practice to shift games to ao if it was expected a large crowd would attend, so as not to have too much crowding/people locked out, were it played at prospect or the parade?

 

[DropBearess]

yes dropbearess, this bothers me too, rita huckel, who was kirste's grandmother, lived in hilton, which, given that most people supported clubs near where they lived in those days, would suggest she supported west or torrens, les ratcliffe said that joanne had been with them to footy at ao many times before, so i suppose they had been using season tickets for some years prior to 73, perhaps it was a way dedicated supporters could hedge so that they would never miss out on seeing their team if the game was held at ao instead of suburban home-away, do you know if it was sanfl practice to shift games to ao if it was expected a large crowd would attend, so as not to have too much crowding/people locked out, were it played at prospect or the parade?

No, it was never SANFL policy to shift games and l can't think of a time this ever happened. Both Norwood and Prospect Oval can and did host crowds 2- 3 times the size as the crowd that day (those were the days!). My mum knew Kirste's mother Christine when they both attended church at Mile End, but not sure if her family were Torrens supporters. Just out of interest, it was policy at most grounds then to open gates for free admission at the 20 minute mark of the third quarter.

 

[charlie20]

Australian Football - SANFL Premiership season - Season 1973

australianfootball.com

this is interesting, on second thoughts i was thinking maybe it was some kind of membership, or reciprocal membership right/set seat, which also mightve included state of origin and champion of australia games, as well as finals, but if you scroll right down you can see that norwood played in both the elmination and semis, and both those games were at norwood, seems funny - but there it is in black and white

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Australian Football - SANFL Premiership season - Season 1973

australianfootball.com

this is interesting, on second thoughts i was thinking maybe it was some kind of membership, or reciprocal membership right/set seat, which also mightve included state of origin and champion of australia games, as well as finals, but if you scroll right down you can see that norwood played in both the elmination and semis, and both those games were at norwood, seems funny - but there it is in black and white

I was listening to a podcast with JR's sister, her name escapes me right now, and im sure I heard her say they always sat in the same seats of the Edwin Smith stand and this is how they came to be friends with KG's grandmother. From what I can gather, sitting in this stand required a membership of sorts, whether that be a club membership or a ground membership like the MCC membership at the MCG etc. so whilst they may not have been weekly, if they had ground membership passes they may have gone to other games just for the outing even though Norwood wasn't playing.
Just a thought.
Either way, they sat in those same seats which suggests a membership of sorts and so i'd assume anyone sitting around them would do likewise.
Im wondering if this avenue was ever investigated by SAPOL as im sure whoever allocated seating in the stands would have a list of names, imagine the breakthrough if one of the many suspects in relation to either this or the BC case appeared on that list.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

I was very involved in SANFL football in 1973 (and extensively before and after). I'm confused about reports both families "always sat in the Sir Edwin Smith stand every week". North Adelaide and Norwood were playing on that day and their home grounds were at Prospect and Norwood respectively. They played each other only twice in the minor round that year and in most other preceding seasons. This particular game only happened at Adelaide Oval because it was the 'match of the day', due to North Adelaide being a premiership contender.
I don't see how or why either family would have wanted season tickets to Adelaide Oval. The Ratcliffes were Norwood supporters and l believe Norwood only played at Adelaide Oval three to four times that year.
I think this discounts the theory that the children had been watched on previous occasions by someone who knew where they sat.
I believe Joanne and Kirste were abducted by the same perpetrator as the Beaumont children. I think both crimes were opportunistic, but had been extensively planned and fantasized about should the opportunity have arisen.

Who said 'every week'?
From what I've read and heard the word 'regularly' was used and given as the reason both families knew each other.

 

[johnymac1]

Here's my take on the AO abductor.

I believe it was a truly random snatching, with the offender making off with his preferred aged victim. Unfortunately the girl's minder tagged along. The offender may not necessarily attended the football from the start, but may have just wandered in there after the gates were opened. The offender may have cruised past the botanic gardens, the zoo etc. Anywhere where he can get an opportunity to offend.

The offender is accustomed to walking great distances and may have walked into town on previous occasions. He may have used the corridor along the rail lines before. And most likely lives north west of the CBD. There is a slim chance he had a car or van, but he would have more likely parked it on war memorial drive. If that’s the case he could have lived anywhere in Adelaide.

I think our guy might be a labourer or factory worker, but then again he might be a pensioner of some kind. He is likely to have lived alone and have no close family living near him. I had a thought, he might be lived near a school or kindergarten. Unfortunately I think our guy is now deceased, if he was late 40s in 1973 and 47 years have gone by. He would be over 90 now.

His family and friends may have not known about what he did. And may have no indication when the cleaned up his home, upon his death. I think he was careful to destroy all evidence. Its highly unlikely hes on police radar. But he maybe known for loitering around toilets and playgrounds.

He may have collected news paper clippings or articles on the case. Possibly also possessed, articles of clothing from other offending and most likely had a pr0n collection of some description. He would have been a frequent visitor of a dodgy adult book store.

He might have loosely followed footy, but he was there mainly to perve then later offend. In summer I can see him hanging around beaches. Possibly semaphore etc, anywhere on a bus or train route. Its highly unlikely anybody can identify him, unless there is some hard evidence uncovered.

 

[DropBearess]

The question of SANFL programming of games in 1973 is interesting. I'm currently trying to track down a reliable source regarding the system of home game or membership tickets that year. Specifically, if or why Norwood members would have had entitlements to sit in the Sir Edwin Smith Stand and if so, how many times a year?

 

[GreyCrow]

The question of SANFL programming of games in 1973 is interesting. I'm currently trying to track down a reliable source regarding the system of home game or membership tickets that year. Specifically, if or why Norwood members would have had entitlements to sit in the Sir Edwin Smith Stand and if so, how many times a year?

I cant answer the last question but I can guess at the first

It seems , looking round by round, that like in later years at Football Park each team got a game or 2 or 3 at Adelaide Oval

They could have been Adelaide Oval Members giving them access

 

[Bograt]

Links of interest.

Arthur Brown - Serial killer?

Stanley Arthur Hart is a confirmed suspect in this case... he was interviewed as a person of interest the day after the abduction. Hart had a striking resemblance to Arthur Stanley Brown and, coincidentally perhaps, they frequented the same SA and Queensland locations.
On the morning of the abduction Hart was able to see the home from which Kirste left, from his front porch.
Given I cannot respond on the Beaumont page, as a result of answering questions and providing proof to support my comments, I will take opportunity here to answer another of your questions.
While I did not spark Guido Eglitis "James An" initial interest in pursuit of Munro, I certainly liaised with Eglitis for some time. He provided information to myself on Munro's activities in Cambodia, which was in turn provided to senior Cambodian authorities and AFP, SAPOL and Western Australia Police were kept informed also. In fact, it should be know that Eglitis was arrested for trying to gain some evidence for WA Police on another pedophile, one of Australia's most wanted, David Shom. Eglitis was arrested for raiding Shom's residence... Shom shot thru straight after. AFP called me upon Eglitis arrest to inform me of his arrest and advise of their knowledge of the arrangement WA Police had made with Eglitis.... who has now served his time for his previous crimes.
Munro has returned to Adelaide and is now convicted of pedophile crimes spanning four decades. I'd say it's money well spent supporting a "dangerous Vietnam Veteran" who can navigate corrupt Cambodia putting pressure on Munro, a monster in the playground for pedos.

 

[Bograt]

Why would a police search for the girls stop a block shy of where one of the girls had left from the day of abduction?

 

[johnymac1]

Why would a police search for the girls stop a block shy of where one of the girls had left from the day of abduction?

where is this house. Mile END?

 

[Quadzilla]

where is this house. Mile END?

Prospect

'Major Crime police have confirmed they are assessing details of Stanley Arthur Hart’s link to the Prospect property, provided to them by The Advertiser last month."

 

[Bograt]

where is this house. Mile END?

That's where Kirste's grandmother lived yes. So Hart lived not more than a block from that house... actually in Hilton. He had access to his parent's abandoned house in Prospect at the time... his father having died.

 

[charlie20]

upon the death of hart's father, who had been living alone in the prospect home, the property ownership passed solely to hart's eldest brother, who already lived elsewhere and so had no use for the home, this was march 73, so, as it was empty and deteriorating, no doubt stan hart mightve "volunteered" for the job of calling in and maintaining the property, which, it seems, was not done at all, hart's eldest brother held the property for a year, until march 74, when it was sold to a company in the business of property development and real estate, presumably the idea was to tidy and renovate it and then rent it out or sell it, the property remained vacant until about late 74/early 75 when a couple moved in, im not entirely sure if they rented from the company first up, then later turned rent into buy - i think that was the case, several years later, what was interesting though, is that they moved into a property which was still decrepit on the inside, no phone, there was a gas explosion due to faulty pipes etc, the place was bad inside, yet the backyard had been totally cleared of any grass, rubbish, etc, was almost completely covered with fresh dirt, it is unknown whether or not stan hart continued to have access during 74, but i think that was the year he decided to permanently relocate to his yatina property and not reside in adelaide ever again

a lot of people have spent a lot of time and effort over several years to make it LOOK like stan hart was the adelaide oval abductor, and, while he remains a person of interest, and this was the case from day one as he was interviewed by police in 73 within days of the crime, im not sure sapol are fully convinced he was the actual person who did it, age is the main issue - the witness descriptions are of a man in his early 40s, hart was 56 at the time

 

[Bograt]

upon the death of hart's father, who had been living alone in the prospect home, the property ownership passed solely to hart's eldest brother, who already lived elsewhere and so had no use for the home, this was march 73, so, as it was empty and deteriorating, no doubt stan hart mightve "volunteered" for the job of calling in and maintaining the property, which, it seems, was not done at all, hart's eldest brother held the property for a year, until march 74, when it was sold to a company in the business of property development and real estate, presumably the idea was to tidy and renovate it and then rent it out or sell it, the property remained vacant until about late 74/early 75 when a couple moved in, im not entirely sure if they rented from the company first up, then later turned rent into buy - i think that was the case, several years later, what was interesting though, is that they moved into a property which was still decrepit on the inside, no phone, there was a gas explosion due to faulty pipes etc, the place was bad inside, yet the backyard had been totally cleared of any grass, rubbish, etc, was almost completely covered with fresh dirt, it is unknown whether or not stan hart continued to have access during 74, but i think that was the year he decided to permanently relocate to his yatina property and not reside in adelaide ever again

a lot of people have spent a lot of time and effort over several years to make it LOOK like stan hart was the adelaide oval abductor, and, while he remains a person of interest, and this was the case from day one as he was interviewed by police in 73 within days of the crime, im not sure sapol are fully convinced he was the actual person who did it, age is the main issue - the witness descriptions are of a man in his early 40s, hart was 56 at the time

 

[Bograt]

Hart didn't necessarily have to snatch the girls to be involved. Hart had a lot of people, many with freedom of movement and authority, to assist. He had a strong "horticulture" operation going too which for a long time a blind eye was turned

 

[charlie20]

Hart didn't necessarily have to snatch the girls to be involved. Hart had a lot of people, many with freedom of movement and authority, to assist. He had a strong "horticulture" operation going too which for a long time a blind eye was turned

adelaide oval abuction took place at a footy game, team game, team effort ...

might i be correct in thinking the "horticulture" operation harts, and perhaps others, had going in the mid-north may have come to the attention of the nca during their investigation of mafia linked crops in south australia not long prior to the 1994 bombing?

 

[Bograt]

adelaide oval abuction took place at a footy game, team game, team effort ...

might i be correct in thinking the "horticulture" operation harts, and perhaps others, had going in the mid-north may have come to the attention of the nca during their investigation of mafia linked crops in south australia not long prior to the 1994 bombing?

Correct

 

[Bograt]

Correct

Interesting that in 2009 Max McIntyre wrote to SAPOL advising them of the discussion he'd had with Bowen shortly before his death

 

[Macka_321]

If hart was the person responsible he was a big north adelaide fan so it could have been planned as he might have seen the girls other times at the footy. He took a risk and got lucky unfortunately.

 

[Bograt]

If hart was the person responsible he was a big north adelaide fan so it could have been planned as he might have seen the girls other times at the footy. He took a risk and got lucky unfortunately.

Matters not that Hart was a north fan in my opinon, not when it's known Hart lived a stone's throw of Kirste's grandmother and had great opportunity to be aware/known to them and their movements.

 

[Kurve]

Matters not that Hart was a north fan in my opinon, not when it's known Hart lived a stone's throw of Kirste's grandmother and had great opportunity to be aware/known to them and their movements.

Did Hart have any priors? For sex crimes or other?

I couldn't find anything.