Unsolved Girls that went missing from Adelaide Oval 1973

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bluegirlz

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How heavy would Kirste have been? He just scooped her up and put her under his arm and walked off like she was a leather satchel.
[/QUOTE]
At a guess 15-20kgs is average weight of a 4 year old.
 

charlie20

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Sorry to disagree with you here, but Sapol NEVER showed an interest in Yatina, even with the evidence MTM gave them. It took the effort of the GJ’s to go there & as confirmed by Bogart above, Sapol would not allow themselves to be out done by the GJ’s. Sapol only attended Yatina because they were forced to & even then, they half heartedly searched & they didn’t even search in the locations of interest. Most of the evidence collected WAS HANDED TO THEM by the GJ’s. So how much interest did sapol have? Sapol suggested in 2016 the search was suspended for safety reasons & they would return and yet here we are 4 yrs later with......if you seriously believe or could possibly suggest that Sapol are not lacking in this search (one of many cases), please do research into WHAT Yatina actually is...its not a place...its a living hell for many survivors. There were high profiles involved, fly in fly out perps and lets also not forget the drug growing Hart kindly did for officers at the time to ensure his own protection. Did you notice the airstrip close by? Charlie20, have you researched this place and what it stood for? Are you aware of the dark history this place has and the elite perps involved?
i first studied yatina about 6 years ago, soon after i began studying the ao case, there is some connection but it is not much, i stand by by defence of sapol re this location, i doubt very much yatina is the location of the majority of any remains which can be found, i dont think sapol cares who helps them, bikies, whoever, just that they are able to have access to quality information with high likelihood of accuracy, i think the view of elite perps and so forth is more the product of a decades old pr campaign in myth-making, it has infected most major cases, especially the beaumont case, and sapol, with the exception of castalloy, arent listening to these ideas much anymore
 

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bluegirlz

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i first studied yatina about 6 years ago, soon after i began studying the ao case, there is some connection but it is not much, i stand by by defence of sapol re this location, i doubt very much yatina is the location of the majority of any remains which can be found, i dont think sapol cares who helps them, bikies, whoever, just that they are able to have access to quality information with high likelihood of accuracy, i think the view of elite perps and so forth is more the product of a decades old pr campaign in myth-making, it has infected most major cases, especially the beaumont case, and sapol, with the exception of castalloy, arent listening to these ideas much anymore
I value your opinion, although, respectfully disagree on this one. Sapol did not touch or review that site until the GJ’s went there. Their half arsed attempt was purely based on a publicity stunt and if Suzie never bought it to the public, Sapol wouldn’t have touched it. Former sapol were heavily involved with their drug operations, the child exploration and murders that took place there. To suggest Hart and family were not main players, in my opinion, in a blinded opinion, particularly if you have studied Yatina and the allegations of the victims. Im not suggesting there are mass graves, although once again, it can not be ruled out. Its vast open country spreads for miles - where do you begin? Not every crime or ring is linked to satanic abuses. There is certainly evidence and many victims to suggest Yatina was the devils playground. Sapol firstly failed when they never charged Hart with any crimes, in fact, he was TOLD to go out to Yatina, that was a sapol directive. It was not a choice Hart made. His offending was ride and at that point, beyond sapol covering his arse. That was their first mistake. We have an offender who’s number count is beyond belief and sapol were aware of it...and his only charges...stealing potatoes? In my opinion, sapol failed to and continues to fail with investigation this particular case. There is a MASSIVE connection to Yatina, in my opinion.
 

Kurve

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adelaide oval abuction took place at a footy game, team game, team effort ...

might i be correct in thinking the "horticulture" operation harts, and perhaps others, had going in the mid-north may have come to the attention of the nca during their investigation of mafia linked crops in south australia not long prior to the 1994 bombing?
Are you suggesting the crops were Hart's but not on any of the properties he owned himself and that he was involved for twenty years without a pinch? Or he was a middle man?
 

Kurve

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He had been convicted for theft... stole potatoes. While he didn't have priors, nor was ever convicted for sex crimes, it means only that he got away with them. His close associate that is absolutely linked to this case - attended the footy that day and was well aware of the movement of the two girls to the moment they disappeared - did have a child sex conviction and took part in hypnosis of children. Birds of a feather, you might say
You're saying Frank Bone was a child sex offender and was at the footy with the Ratcliffe's that day? That he knew Hart, who was staying within a block or so of where Kirste was and we know it was the first time Kirste had ever been to the football with her grandparents?

Do we know of any/how many reported sex attacks there might have been at AO up until then, incidents in the toilet blocks for example?
 

Bograt

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You're saying Frank Bone was a child sex offender and was at the footy with the Ratcliffe's that day? That he knew Hart, who was staying within a block or so of where Kirste was and we know it was the first time Kirste had ever been to the football with her grandparents?

Do we know of any/how many reported sex attacks there might have been at AO up until then, incidents in the toilet blocks for example?
I'm not saying Frank Bone was a sex offender.... this comment has nothing to do with Frank Bone. But yes, Frank Bone was at the footy that day with the Ratcliffes as was his regular outing with them. Frank did not move from his seat for the whole time his good friend was frantically searching for the girls. He sat with Rita. Frank also did not provide evidence to the inquest, nor was he mentioned in any press about the incident across the years.... correct me if I'm wrong but I never found a single mention of another person at the footy with the Ratcliffes that day... not even a "attending along with their friend". Seems like a massive oversight to not mention another adult who always went to the footy with the family. Bone also had at the very least a professional working relationship/acquaintance with Bevan Spencer Von Einem.

What I was saying in this comment was that Stan Hart had a prior conviction for stealing potatoes... I was responding to the question of whether or not Stan Hart had prior convictions. He never had a sex crime conviction. He also never had a drug trafficking conviction but there is little doubt, and plenty of screaming evidence pointing to the fact he played in both these fields of crime quite a bit.

This comment also raises the fact there was another associate of Stan's at the footy that day, Terry Smythe was his name, who it is absolutely confirmed was at the footy and must have known better than any other adult what the girls were doing in their last moments at the oval.... given his daughters were questioned by police the following day as they had been playing with the girls. One of those daughters went on to marry Mark Trevor Marshall, Stan Hart's grandson and the person who tipped Hart into this with his statement to the Mulligan inquiry. Marshall's statements were stolen from state archives and that sparked the investigation which uncovered barrels containing evidence of blood (not confirmed to be human but clearly suspect given the length someone went to hide them) from a place Hart frequented and precisely where Marshall had said they were disposed of 40 years prior to writing it and drawing an X on a map.

Terry Smythe had priors for messing about with hypnosis on young girls. At the time of the abduction, the separated man had 2 addresses he was living at, neither of them being with his family and one of them being shared with a known pedophile, just around the corner from the abandoned Hart home in Prospect... which had the bunker.

I spoke with Smythe before his death.
 

Bograt

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sapol are not hiding anything, they have paid some attention to yatina because of hart's alleged involvement, but they are not taking it further because they dont believe hart was the actual abductor, and i agree with them on that point
Hart was first interviewed about the abduction by police on August 26, 1973, Detective Bob Sharpe told me in 2015.... 4 years after SAPOL denied they had any interest in Hart as a suspect. In August 2013, SAPOL Det Insp Greg Hutchins called me to ask for all the information I had on the matter, including that from the GJ's who had approached me to lay out what it is they had found. In 2015, SAPOL went to Yatina to resume the searches they had been undertaking between 2009 and that time --- yes "resume". Hart has always been a key suspect in this matter and unless SAPOL come up with an alternative actual perpetrator, Hart stands as the most likely in my book.
 

DropBearess

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I have followed this case diligently and extensively since the day it happened. Until recent months (on this forum) l had never heard of a Frank Bone attending the game with the Ratcliffes. How peculiar that tmk this has never been mentioned? Goodness knows how many other missing pieces of the jigsaw mysteriously exist somewhere, any one of which, however insignificant, could be the answer.
 

bluegirlz

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I'm not saying Frank Bone was a sex offender.... this comment has nothing to do with Frank Bone. But yes, Frank Bone was at the footy that day with the Ratcliffes as was his regular outing with them. Frank did not move from his seat for the whole time his good friend was frantically searching for the girls. He sat with Rita. Frank also did not provide evidence to the inquest, nor was he mentioned in any press about the incident across the years.... correct me if I'm wrong but I never found a single mention of another person at the footy with the Ratcliffes that day... not even a "attending along with their friend". Seems like a massive oversight to not mention another adult who always went to the footy with the family. Bone also had at the very least a professional working relationship/acquaintance with Bevan Spencer Von Einem.

What I was saying in this comment was that Stan Hart had a prior conviction for stealing potatoes... I was responding to the question of whether or not Stan Hart had prior convictions. He never had a sex crime conviction. He also never had a drug trafficking conviction but there is little doubt, and plenty of screaming evidence pointing to the fact he played in both these fields of crime quite a bit.

This comment also raises the fact there was another associate of Stan's at the footy that day, Terry Smythe was his name, who it is absolutely confirmed was at the footy and must have known better than any other adult what the girls were doing in their last moments at the oval.... given his daughters were questioned by police the following day as they had been playing with the girls. One of those daughters went on to marry Mark Trevor Marshall, Stan Hart's grandson and the person who tipped Hart into this with his statement to the Mulligan inquiry. Marshall's statements were stolen from state archives and that sparked the investigation which uncovered barrels containing evidence of blood (not confirmed to be human but clearly suspect given the length someone went to hide them) from a place Hart frequented and precisely where Marshall had said they were disposed of 40 years prior to writing it and drawing an X on a map.

Terry Smythe had priors for messing about with hypnosis on young girls. At the time of the abduction, the separated man had 2 addresses he was living at, neither of them being with his family and one of them being shared with a known pedophile, just around the corner from the abandoned Hart home in Prospect... which had the bunker.

I spoke with Smythe before his death.
I think you would be challenged to find an adult sitting down whilst a child, let alone children, were missing. Any person I would assume that wouldn’t be bothered looking, imo, would be someone who knows their fate. Extremely alarming behaviour, particularly from a parent and failure to appear at the inquest on three occasions, implies a degree of guilt, imo. It is also just as odd, considering Bone’s presence and behaviour that day was not a relevant factor for police and strange how his name has never been mentioned in relation to the case until the above article. That may or may not imply a degree of corruption or favours by police of the day.
Smythe’s daughter was a witness, and she goes onto marry mtm....thats an alarming connection.

I applaud the person who accessed and publicised these documents, because I don’t think the government ever would have.
 

Kurve

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I'll just put some history of Mark Trevor Marshall in here, maybe put a thread exclusively for Hart and Marshall if anything of interest comes through.

July 2017.
Notorious paedophile Mark Trevor Marshall wants to undergo a lie detector test to prove he has crucial information about the infamous abduction of two girls from Adelaide Oval 44 years ago.


 

Kurve

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Notorious paedophile Mark Trevor Marshall will remain behind bars after losing his latest bid for release.

November, 2017 and probably due another application for release. He's been in prison since 2009.

 

Kurve

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Screenshot of the letter Marshall sent to one of his victims from prison. It's quite creepy, a twisted kind of love letter.

marshallcorrespondence.png
 

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Kurve

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500 unidentified sets of remains need to be named and returned to their families.


A new DNA program sparks hope for the family of Joanne Ratcliffe, who mysteriously disappeared from Adelaide Oval with Kirste Gordon 47 years ago

On the 47th anniversary of the abduction of girls Joanne Ratcliffe and Kirste Gordon from Adelaide Oval, a new DNA-matching program may hold the answer for their long-suffering families.

August 24, 2020 8:00pm

Every time Suzie Ratcliffe receives new information into the disappearance of her sister Joanne that leads to another dead end, it breaks her all over again.
But on the 47th anniversary of the mysterious disappearance of Joanne Ratcliffe, 11, and Kirste Gordon, 4, – abducted from a football match at Adelaide Oval in 1973 – identifying her sister’s remains seems closer than ever before for Ms Ratcliffe.
“Of course whenever someone comes forward with new information, it strikes at our heart, we try not to build up our hopes too much because if it’s a dead end it breaks us all over again,” Ms Ratcliffe told The Advertiser.
The Australian Federal Police this month launched a national DNA program for unidentified, missing persons to allow advanced DNA profiling and matching of unidentified human remains from missing persons for the first time.
Project lead, associate professor Jodie Ward, said up to 500 sets of remains would be examined with modern forensic techniques to fill gaps in Australia’s national missing persons databases.
In the event there are no DNA matches, the new technology will be used to predict the ancestry, eye and hair colour or distant relatives of the unknown individual to assist with linking them to a missing person.
The AFP’s National Missing Persons Coordination Centre will work with police and families of missing people to collect reference DNA samples to assist with filling gaps.
“My goal is to identify some of these deceased people and provide answers to families with missing loved ones, and we have the science to do that,” Dr Ward said.
“The legacy of this program is that we have... more streamlined forensic approaches for missing persons investigations going forward.”
Multiple properties in South Australia’s Mid North have been searched for Joanne and Kirste’s remains, but after 47 years, Ms Ratcliffe has not buried her sister. A sketch of a suspect has been drawn and a $1 million reward is offered for anyone who provides information that leads to a conviction.
Her brother, David Ratcliffe, sadly passed away in April from a heart attack at age 59 – leaving Ms Ratcliffe as the only remaining immediate family member in need of answers.
“He and Joanne were thick as thieves and I know over the years it had tortured him, he blamed himself a lot for not being there and not being able to protect the girls on the day they were taken.”
She said the prospect of identifying Joanne’s remains would bring her brother, mother, and father peace from the grave.
The unidentified human remains of about 500 people have been found in Australia, with the new program aiming to give closure to families after years of searching.
“This new technology and this new program, that’s a huge light for families, knowing it could possibly lead to them finally being reunited with their loved ones.
“We just want to bring Joanne and Kirste home so we can bury them with the love and respect they deserve.”
In 2015 Ms Ratcliffe formed the Leave a Light On Foundation to raise awareness for long-term missing persons and connect a community experiencing loss.
The organisation was named after Ms Ratcliffe’s mother left the light on of their Campbelltown property for years following Joanne’s disappearance – in case she returned home.
Ms Ratcliffe remains in contact with Kirste’s family through a victim support officer, and has communicated with more than 150 families of missing persons to alert them of the new DNA program.
Her daughter, Tamara, 14, was given her middle name after Joanne.
“(Tamara) looks very much like her Aunty Joanne, and who has the same sort of fiery temper, but also the same caring and loving nature.”
Every year Ms Ratcliffe and Tamara go to Woolshed Falls near Beechworth in Victoria to throw flowers down the falls on Joanne’s anniversary on


https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/…/3627c90789e665f327a408e72b…
 

Kurve

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If you are related - even at 3rd cousin level to a missing person I urge you to take a DNA test and have it on record - you do NOT need to involve yourself with the genealogy side of it - but to help solve these cold cases it is essential as many close - near close relatives test
The remains of 500 in bits and pieces is a lot of people, I'm a bit shocked nothing has been done before this. Similarly, I was shocked to read a random bit of information a senior police officer referred to at Lyn Dawson's coroners inquiry. A small child was dropped off at a hospital in Sydney a few years ago and he died, they still don't know who he is.
 

charlie20

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i dont know why the media have gotten hold of this and continue to raise hopes that answers are close, and that this is the big break, i dont understand why suzie ratcliffe still responds to this stuff
 

Kurve

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Subject of a Bryan Littlely article in 2013


Man sells house to BSVE

Frank Bone in 1988 - Frank passed away August 2000


View attachment 882283
There's a new book out, I just noticed the movement of Frank Bone's property is discussed. Bone purchased the Paradise home in 1962 and sold it in 1977. BVE and Thora didn't purchase the home directly from Bone, they bought it in 1983 according to this book.

I can't find the documented history going that far back.

From The Family Murders Dissected, chapter 6.
 

anquer

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https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news...-/news-story/2a4aec7cb560f4b2fdd81206a1b04020

Man claims he saw Joanne Ratcliffe and Kirste Gordon loaded into van at a boarding house after their disappearance from Adelaide Oval
DETECTIVES are investigating claims that Joanne Ratcliffe and Kirste Gordon were loaded into a van at a Prospect boarding house soon after disappearing from Adelaide Oval 40 years ago.


CRAIG COOK
August 31, 2013 - 10:01PM
Sunday Mail (SA)

Adelaide Oval abduction.jpg


MAJOR Crimes detectives are investigating claims that Joanne Ratcliffe and Kirste Gordon were loaded into the back of a van at a Prospect boarding house soon after disappearing from Adelaide Oval 40 years ago.

Prospect man Robert McMahon, 73, approached the Sunday Mail during the week claiming he saw the girls at a Vine St boarding house on the day they were supposedly abducted from the 1973 SANFL match between Norwood and North Adelaide.

He said the girls were accompanied by a man known as 'Scotty' with whom he shared the boarding house.

He said Scotty, who claimed the girls were his grandchildren, paraded the pair in front of his housemates before taking them outside and ordering them into a cream-white van parked in a laneway at the back of the boarding house.

Mr McMahon said he was so disturbed by the incident he drew pictures that night of what he claims he saw and wrote a letter detailing what happened at the property on August 25, 1973.

The artist said he kept the sketches and letter in a box before later placing them in a sealed envelope.

He opened the envelope in front of the Sunday Mail this week and produced sketches that appear to be accurate portrayals of Joanne, 11, and Kirste, 4.

There are also drawings of Scotty and a cream white van along with two scribbled notes.

Major Crime detectives collected the documents on Friday and intend to interview Mr McMahon this week.

Mr McMahon claims that late on the afternoon of August 25, 1973 he was sitting in his room watching a VFA football match on TV when he "heard a racket" out the back of the house.

"I went to check and there was one of the borders coming in and he had two children with him," he said.

"He had the little one under his right arm and the other one was ahead of him.

"He walked them around in a circle in front of us (four or five men) laughing and joking.

"He said the kids were his grandchildren but when the older one went to speak he told her to 'shut up' and not say anything.

"I can still see the taller girl now as she walked passed me."

"It was all very weird,"

Mr McMahon, who was 33 at the time of the girls' disappearance, went to the kitchen area of the boarding house where he said he watched the man drag the small girl to the back of his van that was parked in a laneway.

"He threw the little one in roughly and motioned to the bigger one to jump in," he said. "He slammed the back door and then locked it.

"It's not the way you treat your grandchildren."

Mr McMahon said he was so concerned he returned to his room and did sketches of the girls, Scotty and the van.

He said he rang police the next day when news broke of the possible abductions.

"When I saw the photos I knew for sure it was those girls that I'd seen." he said.

"But the police said they had hundreds of sightings and would get back to me."

He claimed they never did. He said he rang police a week later and then again around the first anniversary of the abductions with the same result. He said he didn't pursue it further out of frustration.

But he contacted the Sunday Mail this week after reading a story published in the paper last weekend, marking the 40th anniversary of the girls' mysterious disappearance.

Mr McMahon said Scotty - he never knew his real name - did not return to the boarding house and he never saw him again.

He described Scotty as being in his early 40s, with a broad Scottish accent. He said he was about 165cm, had grey receding hair and limped on his right side.

Former Adelaide Oval assistant curator Ken Wohling reportedly saw the back of a man walking with the two girls and noticed he had a 'stoop'.

Mr McMahon, raised in a Catholic orphanage in Geelong, said he was fully aware of the pain and distress his story could cause if he was lying.

"I will tell the same story on my death bed and if I ever get to face my God," he said.

"I have a bit of guilt that I didn't try even harder at the time to get it out but we all have things we have to live with and I did try."
 

anquer

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Adelaide Oval abduction witness claimant.jpg

A version of the above article had this photo of the person making the claim, Mr Robert McMahon.
 
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anquer

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BC mel the age p5 02.02.66.jpg

The abductor didn't seem attired for the footy. Maybe 1950s, yes... with hat, dress jacket, trousers. Seems more like he was about for a stroll and quite a formal one at that. He lost his spectacles. His vehicle was not parked near the point of abduction suggesting an impulse move by a semi-local. Someone residing locally though not entirely fixed to the area. Given the area... sightseeing, perhaps? In the attire of his occupation and match that to the type of vehicle he drove, perhaps?

I refer to the above article relating to the Beaumont case...

"They appealed yesterday for public help in finding a man whose behaviour pattern had suddenly changed."

"They were expected to reduction [sic: expecting the abduction] had not been premeditated [and] the person responsible would now have habits which were irregular, unusual or suspicious."

"This appeal was directed mainly to proprietors of boarding houses, landlords and employers."
 
Last edited:

sprockets

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https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news...-/news-story/2a4aec7cb560f4b2fdd81206a1b04020

Man claims he saw Joanne Ratcliffe and Kirste Gordon loaded into van at a boarding house after their disappearance from Adelaide Oval
DETECTIVES are investigating claims that Joanne Ratcliffe and Kirste Gordon were loaded into a van at a Prospect boarding house soon after disappearing from Adelaide Oval 40 years ago.


CRAIG COOK
August 31, 2013 - 10:01PM
Sunday Mail (SA)

View attachment 1005865

MAJOR Crimes detectives are investigating claims that Joanne Ratcliffe and Kirste Gordon were loaded into the back of a van at a Prospect boarding house soon after disappearing from Adelaide Oval 40 years ago.

Prospect man Robert McMahon, 73, approached the Sunday Mail during the week claiming he saw the girls at a Vine St boarding house on the day they were supposedly abducted from the 1973 SANFL match between Norwood and North Adelaide.

He said the girls were accompanied by a man known as 'Scotty' with whom he shared the boarding house.

He said Scotty, who claimed the girls were his grandchildren, paraded the pair in front of his housemates before taking them outside and ordering them into a cream-white van parked in a laneway at the back of the boarding house.

Mr McMahon said he was so disturbed by the incident he drew pictures that night of what he claims he saw and wrote a letter detailing what happened at the property on August 25, 1973.

The artist said he kept the sketches and letter in a box before later placing them in a sealed envelope.

He opened the envelope in front of the Sunday Mail this week and produced sketches that appear to be accurate portrayals of Joanne, 11, and Kirste, 4.

There are also drawings of Scotty and a cream white van along with two scribbled notes.

Major Crime detectives collected the documents on Friday and intend to interview Mr McMahon this week.

Mr McMahon claims that late on the afternoon of August 25, 1973 he was sitting in his room watching a VFA football match on TV when he "heard a racket" out the back of the house.

"I went to check and there was one of the borders coming in and he had two children with him," he said.

"He had the little one under his right arm and the other one was ahead of him.

"He walked them around in a circle in front of us (four or five men) laughing and joking.

"He said the kids were his grandchildren but when the older one went to speak he told her to 'shut up' and not say anything.

"I can still see the taller girl now as she walked passed me."

"It was all very weird,"

Mr McMahon, who was 33 at the time of the girls' disappearance, went to the kitchen area of the boarding house where he said he watched the man drag the small girl to the back of his van that was parked in a laneway.

"He threw the little one in roughly and motioned to the bigger one to jump in," he said. "He slammed the back door and then locked it.

"It's not the way you treat your grandchildren."

Mr McMahon said he was so concerned he returned to his room and did sketches of the girls, Scotty and the van.

He said he rang police the next day when news broke of the possible abductions.

"When I saw the photos I knew for sure it was those girls that I'd seen." he said.

"But the police said they had hundreds of sightings and would get back to me."

He claimed they never did. He said he rang police a week later and then again around the first anniversary of the abductions with the same result. He said he didn't pursue it further out of frustration.

But he contacted the Sunday Mail this week after reading a story published in the paper last weekend, marking the 40th anniversary of the girls' mysterious disappearance.

Mr McMahon said Scotty - he never knew his real name - did not return to the boarding house and he never saw him again.

He described Scotty as being in his early 40s, with a broad Scottish accent. He said he was about 165cm, had grey receding hair and limped on his right side.

Former Adelaide Oval assistant curator Ken Wohling reportedly saw the back of a man walking with the two girls and noticed he had a 'stoop'.

Mr McMahon, raised in a Catholic orphanage in Geelong, said he was fully aware of the pain and distress his story could cause if he was lying.

"I will tell the same story on my death bed and if I ever get to face my God," he said.

"I have a bit of guilt that I didn't try even harder at the time to get it out but we all have things we have to live with and I did try."
August 25, 1973 was a Saturday and VFA was only played on Sundays back then.
 

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