Unsolved Girls that went missing from Adelaide Oval 1973

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charlie20

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So police spent a few days at Yatina. How thorough were they ?
Ive seen the video where they are sifting through soil.

Did they gather any DNA traces? That could be matched to any of the victims.
Did they light up the main house or buildings with Luminol, or perform other methods to establish the Yatina building was a crime scene?. As indicated in the statements of MM. Did they obtain any other witness statements, that might be helpful?
Iam still not convinced the MM story is true, generally if I find one or more untruths in a statement, I tend to disregard the whole lot.
mm story is partly true, names and locations altered, imo yatina has a strong connection to the beaumont case but much less so adelaide oval, however yatina was the location which was compromised, by both mm and by the bikies who found things nearby, so everyone thinks yatina is IT, truth is that yatina is being used in an attempt to frame stan hart for everything, which doesnt add up, imo
 

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anquer

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If he did ring the cops twice and they didn't follow it up...wow just wow
On first day after disappearance, police logged 728 calls on a police running sheet that totalled more than 40 pages. By the end of the week this number more than doubled. Within two weeks, 3338 calls had been taken. Previous year, a "unique card index detection system" developed by Scotland Yard had been introduced to SAPOL.
 

megadeth86

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No way anyone gets away with something like this nowadays....

cctv footage has changed everything
You make a good point. But it is also surprising that he could get away with it back then. In a way the crowd's focus on first the match and then getting away from the ground quickly is what he was depending on. I have a daughter with behavioural issues, and she sometimes makes a huge fuss or gets very angry in public. People just assume that I'm the parent so I guess the abductor would have benefited from observers making the same assumption as he exited the ground. But yes CCTV would have probably led to his capture in the end.

Was the match televised in 1973? Would there be crowd shots that might have captured something? Probably not to both questions, I guess...
 

megadeth86

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Actually the crowd at the footy may have resembled the crowd at the beach, which would point to a similar M O.
The crowd's focus is first on the match and then on getting away from the ground quickly which is what he was depending on. I have a daughter with behavioural issues, and she sometimes makes a huge fuss or gets very angry in public over small things. People just assume that I'm the parent so I guess the abductor would have benefited from observers making the same assumption as he exited the ground.

Was the match televised in 1973? Would there be crowd shots that might have captured something? Probably not to both questions, I guess...
 

X_box_X

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People just assume that I'm the parent so I guess the abductor would have benefited from observers making the same assumption as he exited the ground.
It would be so easy to abduct a young child in public in front of a large crowd (assuming none of the onlookers actually know the child). Even if the young child kicks, shouts, screams and carries on excessively, you could just act like the child's father and say something along the lines of, "Wait until we get home and tell Mum about this. No ice cream for you tonight."
 

footy75

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It would be so easy to abduct a young child in public in front of a large crowd (assuming none of the onlookers actually know the child). Even if the young child kicks, shouts, screams and carries on excessively, you could just act like the child's father and say something along the lines of, "Wait until we get home and tell Mum about this. No ice cream for you tonight."
exactly... very easy to do it...

but impossible to get away with it.

now days
 

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anquer

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Adelaide Oval abduction suspect first sketch.jpg
Adelaide Oval abudction suspect follow-up sketch.jpg
is Adelaide Oval  abduction related to Beaumont children disappearance.jpg


[snip]"There are also drawings of Scotty and a cream white van along with two scribbled notes."[/snip]

[snip]"Mr McMahon said he was so concerned he returned to his room and did sketches of the girls, Scotty and the van."[/snip]
"Scotty", may have been an assumed name as the news article implies.
 
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charlie20

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anquer, scotty is definitely a madeup name, my view on mcmahon's info is that, as i the pattern with almost all of these people, it's partly true and partly bull, in his sketches of the two girls it is noticable that they are wearing different clothes from those which they wore to the football, so either he's bullshitting entirely OR he has the date wrong, it couldnt have been late in the day of the actual abduction (sat aug 25), another sighting not to too far from dark suggests otherwise for a start, and secondly i think its been made clear vfa games were played on sundays, not saturdays, so - it couldve been the following day (sun aug 26), which might explain a change of clothes for the kids, but even that is problematic - abductor only planned to take kirste, not a second girl, if clothes were being prepared to change kirste into what about clothes for joanne too, an older and taller girl? as for a white van - i think certainly that has truth, and its obvious from mcmahon's description of what occurred that he was witnessing a child prostitution, or potential child prostitution, situation, showing off his "wares" so to speak, god its disgusting ...
 

anquer

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anquer, scotty is definitely a madeup name, my view on mcmahon's info is that, as i the pattern with almost all of these people, it's partly true and partly bull, in his sketches of the two girls it is noticable that they are wearing different clothes from those which they wore to the football, so either he's bullshitting entirely OR he has the date wrong, it couldnt have been late in the day of the actual abduction (sat aug 25), another sighting not to too far from dark suggests otherwise for a start, and secondly i think its been made clear vfa games were played on sundays, not saturdays, so - it couldve been the following day (sun aug 26), which might explain a change of clothes for the kids, but even that is problematic - abductor only planned to take kirste, not a second girl, if clothes were being prepared to change kirste into what about clothes for joanne too, an older and taller girl? as for a white van - i think certainly that has truth, and its obvious from mcmahon's description of what occurred that he was witnessing a child prostitution, or potential child prostitution, situation, showing off his "wares" so to speak, god its disgusting ...
 

johnymac1

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This case just needed one person to stand up on the day!

To yell out "is grandpa being mean?" or something similar. Trying to get a response from the girls, to see if they needed help.
If the response came back "He's not our grandpa". then it was an invitation to intervene.
 

Kurve

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This case just needed one person to stand up on the day!

To yell out "is grandpa being mean?" or something similar. Trying to get a response from the girls, to see if they needed help.
If the response came back "He's not our grandpa". then it was an invitation to intervene.
It might have been these particular abductions that terrified my mum and had us practicing yelling out 'I don't know this person!' and a couple of other variations.

Public toilets also bothered her. She had a story that I always thought was true as a kid but never saw a report of anywhere in later years, of a young girl going to the ladies toilets through the pictures. Her Mum went looking for her and found a man and woman either side of her daughter who now looked really drunk, taking her out of the building. When she said "What are you doing?" The abductors said it was their own daughter and that she was ill. Something like that.
 

X_box_X

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This case just needed one person to stand up on the day!

To yell out "is grandpa being mean?" or something similar. Trying to get a response from the girls, to see if they needed help.
If the response came back "He's not our grandpa". then it was an invitation to intervene.
Would you yell that out to a random girl being held onto by a man?
 

charlie20

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what you guys are forgetting is that at the moment the abduction actually took place, ie when the man came up to the girls, and picked up kirste, he immediately headed for the gate, this wasnt far because the girls were in the archway outside the toilet doors, at the back end of the creswell stand, the fourth quarter had begun and so everyone was watching the game, kilmartin, the lolly seller, who had just collected his pay, witnessed the man take kirste, and joanne follow, trying to stop him, he said there was hardly anyone else around, except for the three kids/people the girls were with the moment kirste was grabbed, so the idea of diligent footy-going adults intervening is, sadly, fanciful ...
 

anquer

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Advertiser TV Guide 25.08.1973.jpg

Adelaide Advertiser TV Guide, Saturday, 25.08.1973 (p37)

If VFL was broadcast, delayed with editing, never live broadcast in NSWRL territory back then it's possible VFA was live broadcast in SANFL territory. A TV guide from newspaper hard copy or Trove NLA website may verify the witness' account and fill in the timeline.
The witness account was from a Saturday. VFA was played on a Sunday. I even checked the fixture from that year and every match was on a Sunday. If it were broadcast live into SA it would have been on a Sunday.
Assuming VFL wasn’t broadcast into Adelaide live at the time?
McMahon was quoted in the article as saying he was watching VFA not VFL.

"... Mr McMahon claims that late on the afternoon of August 25, 1973 he was sitting in his room watching a VFA football match on TV when he "heard a racket" out the back of the house. ..."
Yes, but assuming he’s mistaken.
Well, it's the evidence that's before us. If he's mistaken about that then anything he says has to be questionable.
Again its only based on memory but I dont think it was - there was a strong SANFL comp that was on tv here

I've digitised a larger image but forum tech wouldn't accept the file size. Save and zoom is a way to enlarge the above image print at your end.
 
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anquer

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https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news...-/news-story/2a4aec7cb560f4b2fdd81206a1b04020

Man claims he saw Joanne Ratcliffe and Kirste Gordon loaded into van at a boarding house after their disappearance from Adelaide Oval
DETECTIVES are investigating claims that Joanne Ratcliffe and Kirste Gordon were loaded into a van at a Prospect boarding house soon after disappearing from Adelaide Oval 40 years ago.


CRAIG COOK
August 31, 2013 - 10:01PM
Sunday Mail (SA)

View attachment 1005865

MAJOR Crimes detectives are investigating claims that Joanne Ratcliffe and Kirste Gordon were loaded into the back of a van at a Prospect boarding house soon after disappearing from Adelaide Oval 40 years ago.

Prospect man Robert McMahon, 73, approached the Sunday Mail during the week claiming he saw the girls at a Vine St boarding house on the day they were supposedly abducted from the 1973 SANFL match between Norwood and North Adelaide.

He said the girls were accompanied by a man known as 'Scotty' with whom he shared the boarding house.

He said Scotty, who claimed the girls were his grandchildren, paraded the pair in front of his housemates before taking them outside and ordering them into a cream-white van parked in a laneway at the back of the boarding house.

Mr McMahon said he was so disturbed by the incident he drew pictures that night of what he claims he saw and wrote a letter detailing what happened at the property on August 25, 1973.

The artist said he kept the sketches and letter in a box before later placing them in a sealed envelope.

He opened the envelope in front of the Sunday Mail this week and produced sketches that appear to be accurate portrayals of Joanne, 11, and Kirste, 4.

There are also drawings of Scotty and a cream white van along with two scribbled notes.

Major Crime detectives collected the documents on Friday and intend to interview Mr McMahon this week.

Mr McMahon claims that late on the afternoon of August 25, 1973 he was sitting in his room watching a VFA football match on TV when he "heard a racket" out the back of the house.

"I went to check and there was one of the borders coming in and he had two children with him," he said.

"He had the little one under his right arm and the other one was ahead of him.

"He walked them around in a circle in front of us (four or five men) laughing and joking.

"He said the kids were his grandchildren but when the older one went to speak he told her to 'shut up' and not say anything.

"I can still see the taller girl now as she walked passed me."

"It was all very weird,"

Mr McMahon, who was 33 at the time of the girls' disappearance, went to the kitchen area of the boarding house where he said he watched the man drag the small girl to the back of his van that was parked in a laneway.

"He threw the little one in roughly and motioned to the bigger one to jump in," he said. "He slammed the back door and then locked it.

"It's not the way you treat your grandchildren."

Mr McMahon said he was so concerned he returned to his room and did sketches of the girls, Scotty and the van.

He said he rang police the next day when news broke of the possible abductions.

"When I saw the photos I knew for sure it was those girls that I'd seen." he said.

"But the police said they had hundreds of sightings and would get back to me."

He claimed they never did. He said he rang police a week later and then again around the first anniversary of the abductions with the same result. He said he didn't pursue it further out of frustration.

But he contacted the Sunday Mail this week after reading a story published in the paper last weekend, marking the 40th anniversary of the girls' mysterious disappearance.

Mr McMahon said Scotty - he never knew his real name - did not return to the boarding house and he never saw him again.

He described Scotty as being in his early 40s, with a broad Scottish accent. He said he was about 165cm, had grey receding hair and limped on his right side.

Former Adelaide Oval assistant curator Ken Wohling reportedly saw the back of a man walking with the two girls and noticed he had a 'stoop'.

Mr McMahon, raised in a Catholic orphanage in Geelong, said he was fully aware of the pain and distress his story could cause if he was lying.

"I will tell the same story on my death bed and if I ever get to face my God," he said.

"I have a bit of guilt that I didn't try even harder at the time to get it out but we all have things we have to live with and I did try."
"The artist said he kept the sketches and letter in a box before later placing them in a sealed envelope.

He opened the envelope in front of the Sunday Mail this week and produced sketches that appear to be accurate portrayals of Joanne, 11, and Kirste, 4.

There are also drawings of Scotty and a cream white van along with two scribbled notes."


So, police released the sketches of the girls but withheld the letter, drawings of "Scotty" and a cream white van along with two scribbled notes?
 

sprockets

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Not sure what that pic is telling us Anquer. VFL and VFA were entirely separate leagues back then. VFL was played on a Saturday and VFA on a Sunday. According to the pic VFL was replayed on the Sunday morning and the witness says he was watching VFA.

Advertiser TV Guide 25.08.1973.jpg
 

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