GOAT Horses and/or Performances

[FallingLiefs]

Just for general historical discussion. Worthwhile replays from the past and memorable performances. Also a bit of talk about the best of the best in world or just Aus.

Like RobbyRoy said in the other thread this is going to have to be in tiers. greatest all time horses and/or performances

Just to get this started I'm going to put forward

Frankel
-
Black Caviar
Secretariat
Phar Lap



As for performances

Secretariat Belmont
Peter Pan MC's
1932. Nearly Fell at the 1400 losing many lengths not included in this video and i can't find a full one. returned to the mounting yard with grass burn across his head and missed 1933 with a combination of disease and a few muscle problems from the fall. did this as a 3yo colt at his 7th start.

1934. carried i think 62kg. for mine if he stays sound he would probably be regarded as good or better than phar lap.
Vain Champagne
Any one of Frankels bigguns
Makybe MC3
Bonecrusher CP

Protectionist MC.
Zenyatta's loss

cry with me


what else you got, give me the best?

 

[balmainforever]

always loved Dulcify in the '79 CP.

Kingstown Town in '82 CP was also memorable.

 

[HeathySure]

Greatest losing performance might be Shannon in the 1946 Epsom. He missed the start by 70 yards according to records, got beaten a half head. There is footage of it somewhere but i cannot find it on Youtube. i have seen in somewhere, maybe on the remember this program that used to be on sky

 

[iluvparis]

For mine the two greatest performances ever are Frankel's 2000 Guineas (Turf) and Secretariat's Belmont (Dirt).

Other notable mentions include SYT's first Cox Plate and Dancing Brave's Arc.

As for all time rankings - I find it too difficult - don't know enough about certain jurisdictions (USA, Japan etc) and time comparisons are always super dangerous.

Frankel however is EASILY the best horse I've seen and most likely the greatest horse of all time.

 

[TheJanuaryMan]

ive been known to back the odd GOAT horse, judging by how they run.

 

[Jugada]

Frankel's 2000 Guineas win is one of the most overrated performances ive seen

 

[Jugada]

Half serious (do think its a bit overblown), half wanting to rile up Paris

 

[iluvparis]

Frankel's 2000 Guineas win is one of the most overrated performances ive seen

LOL Jug plz

Early nom for worst call of the 2016/17 season - will be tough to beat

 

[iluvparis]

Half serious (do think its a bit overblown), half wanting to rile up Paris

Didn't even scroll down

 

[Jugada]

 

[sethlad]

always loved Dulcify in the '79 CP.

His Australian Cup win beating Manikato & Family of Man at 80/1 was incredible.
A few months before he nearly died on the nullabor, remarkable horse

seth

 

[rideclutch]

Half serious (do think its a bit overblown), half wanting to rile up Paris

Nah I'm with you (full serious) it doesn't tickle my funnies in any particular way.

This does though. The best (IMO) win from probably the most talented ever horse.

 

[RobbyRoy]

Just for general historical discussion. Worthwhile replays from the past and memorable performances. Also a bit of talk about the best of the best in world or just Aus.

Like RobbyRoy said in the other thread this is going to have to be in tiers. greatest all time horses and/or performances

Just to get this started I'm going to put forward

Frankel
-
Black Caviar
Secretariat
Phar Lap

Good work Liefs. I'd argue all four of these go in the top tier. But then which are the tier two and three horses? Are Makybe Diva, Kingston Town and So You Think that level? Might and Power?

Then we've got Sea Bird, Dancing Brave, Brigadier Gerard, Tudor Minstrel and the like. I think we'll need Paris' input for the internationals.

 

[HeathySure]

Nah I'm with you (full serious) it doesn't tickle my funnies in any particular way.

This does though. The best (IMO) win from probably the most talented ever horse.

That was awesome. One thing i dont like about Frankel.. it has a stupid name!

 

[HeathySure]

Good work Liefs. I'd argue all four of these go in the top tier. But then which are the tier two and three horses? Are Makybe Diva, Kingston Town and So You Think that level? Might and Power?

Then we've got Sea Bird, Dancing Brave, Brigadier Gerard, Tudor Minstrel and the like. I think we'll need Paris' input for the internationals.

I dont rate Makybe Diva that high. She wasn't even the best 2 miler in the world at that time. Her liking for wet tracks and failure in Japan is a mark against her.
Might and Power is a freak. I doubt any horse will lead all the way in a Melbourne Cup again and it never happened before in history. So You think was a freak under the caveat that he raced in a crap era. But he went overseas and won Group 1s. Which is a plus. IF he stayed with Bart who knows how good he would have been. I still dont understand why someone as rich and as old as Dato would sell him.
Australia had the best horses in the world in the early 1990s. Vo Rogue, Better Loosen Up. Lets Elope, Naturalism, Rough Habit. Super Impose were all freaks and if Any of them were around today would absolutely dominate. Rough Habit wasnt even in the top 5 horses at that time and his race record was ridiculous. Same with Super Impose.
Other horses that might be in the mix for best ever (in Australia) are horse like Carbine, Manfred, Grand Flaneur. Tulloch, Bernborough, Shannon, Kingston Town. Ajax, Dulcify, Northerly seems to be totally underated these days, he was a freak and had lengths on Sunline,

AS for the most versatile, Malua won a Newmarket, Oakleigh Plate, Melbourne Cup and Grand National!!!

 

[RobbyRoy]

On the Diva- you may be right and the handicapper may have been generous, but to get up and win the Cup three times in a row is something special. Not to mention a dominant Cox performance.

Might be easier to start with Australian racing tiers first.

 

[RobbyRoy]

Tier One

Phar Lap
Black Caviar

Tier Two

Kingston Town
Tulloch
Carbine
Bernborough
Makybe Diva

Tier Three

Might and Power
Manikato
So You Think
Ajax
Wakeful
Sky High

Tier Four

Vain
Rising Fast
Todman
Sunline
Northerly
Saintly
Super Impose
Galilee
Tobin Bronze
Dulcify
Octagonal


Flame away.

 

[FallingLiefs]

Tier One

Phar Lap
Black Caviar

Tier Two

Kingston Town
Tulloch
Carbine
Bernborough
Makybe Diva

Tier Three

Might and Power
Manikato
So You Think
Ajax
Wakeful
Sky High

Tier Four

Vain
Rising Fast
Todman
Sunline
Northerly
Saintly
Super Impose
Galilee
Tobin Bronze
Dulcify
Octagonal


Flame away.

actually not terrible.

Vain +2 or maybe +1 ( took me about 18 wins to concede defeat on Vain vs BC)
Peter Pan definitely should be in and IMO tier 2. (probably level or better than Makybe as far as MC folklore goes)
Sky High -1

 

[TBellicious]

I would have thought Makybe Diva would be in tier 1

 

[iluvparis]

So You Think should be in same or higher tier than the Diva

 

[iluvparis]

Super Impose shouldn't be anywhere near these lists - barely won a quarter of his races

 

[FallingLiefs]

yeah personally i would drop off Saintly, Super Impose and Octagonal. but that's just personal opinion.

 

[RobbyRoy]

All valid points, will have a rejig tonight.

So You Think to tier 2 or MD to tier 3? Or both?

 

[TBellicious]

Lohnro's Australian cup victory was an amazing performance. Brilliant call too

 

[balmainforever]

I can't see how a horse that won every race bar one between 1000m and 1200 m can be considered a tier one horse.
The 1400m Orr Stakes was the only time he ran further.
Champion horses win multiple races over different distance ranges.